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Attaching a porch to wall with brick ...

CW_'s picture

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I've always wondered the same thing but haven't had to face it yet. Can anyone give some input about the strength of the bricks and mortar? I've always worried about the chances of the brick shattering or otherwise damaging the verneer. I'm sure drill bit choice is a big deal, but what kind of vertical presure are we talking about?

(post #177058, reply #6 of 13)

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Rich, I drill through the mortar at the intersection of a horizontal and vertical joint if possible. This doesn't damage the brick and guides the bit in a nice straight line. When I lay brick I mud the whole end of the brick, so I know it's solid masonry the bolt will go through. Your hardware store friend must mix awful mortar if it falls apart when he drills it!!

I drill through the masonry with a sharp hammer drill and then into the wood with a slightly smaller diameter regular bit and then enlarge the hole in the wood from the inside.

(post #177058, reply #9 of 13)

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Caleb, I'm afraid I can't give you an answer to that question without actually seeing what you have to work with. It sounds like you are adding a covered porch to an already existing two-story brick home. I can tell you that you can't rely on anything fastened only to a brick veneer surface. The brick is just standing there attached to the wall with (who knows what) kind of brick ties. Maybe none!! I had one of my service trucks totalled out a few years back when a brick wall fell right off of a commercial building and onto the truck. There wasn't a tie in the wall!!

I would suggest you get some help from someone who has a good knowledge of house framing and determine where the major wood components of your house framing are located and go from there...Good Luck

(post #177058, reply #11 of 13)

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Caleb, I'm starting to get the picture, I think... You are building a covered (but open to the weather) porch and the brick veneer wall of your house is going to be exposed in your porch??? If this is the case, you can block in solid at the location of your roof ledger board and lag or bolt the board directly to the brick, since there is no chance of water exposure up there. Mud solid behind the brick at bolt locations and use copper flashing set into the mortar joint above the roof. Caulk the mortar/flashing joint.

If you are actually planning an enclosed, weather tight porch, you don't want to have the outside brick continuous with the brick inside your porch. I hope this helps you!

(post #177058, reply #12 of 13)

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How do I attach a porch to a wall with a brick veneer. Every book I can find only describes how to attach a porch when siding is used. This is new construction, so I see two possible options.

1) Attach the ledger board with lag bolts to the rim joist, and attach the porch joists to the ledger board. The problem with this is that the joists will have to pass thru the brick. This may cause real problems if the joists ever need to be replaced.

2) Don't attach the porch to the house at all. Support it entirely on posts, including the side of the porch against the house.

Any suggestions on which of these methods is the best, or on another method I've missed. How is this usually done?

(post #177058, reply #1 of 13)

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Caleb, I have to do this frequently, since we build a lot of brick homes. Your second method will work allright if there is no basement. With a basement, the fill around the house usually isn't settled enough in new construction to allow this.

You certainly don't want to do what you described as option #1. If you haven't laid the brick yet, all you have to do is run heavy bolts through the rim joist and mortar them into the brick as you lay the brick. Use stainless, galvanized or well painted bolts. Mortar in solid between the brick and wall at bolt locations. The end of the bolt should stick out about 4" beyond the brick. If you have already laid the brick, do the same thing by drilling through the mortar joints. I usually use 5/8" carriage bolts every 2'. You will have to figure what kind of a load you are supporting.

Now mark the bolt locations on your ledger board and drill them. Now you need to install a standoff so the ledger board is not bolted tight to the brick wall. I always use the little 4 footed cast aluminum standoffs made to use with 4x4 posts. Screw them to the ledger with deck screws so the holes are centered on each other and the pointed feet are facing the ledger board. Now apply a VERY generous glob of silicone around the bolt where it protrudes from the brick and slide a big stainless washer over the bolt and press it into the silicone. Now install the ledger board using a big washer and nut on the other side and tighten it up.

(post #177058, reply #2 of 13)

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for what it's worth. I would steer away from attaching to your boundry joist. Too much potential leakage into your cavity and as you stated too much trouble down the track for joist replacement.

My suggestion is to bolt a ledger directly to the brickwork ( I use epoxy resin ) and proceed from there.

(post #177058, reply #3 of 13)

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G.

I totally agree with your technique. Through
bolting through the brick and rim joist is
the way to go.

Mike

(post #177058, reply #4 of 13)

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I've always wondered the same thing but haven't had to face it yet. Can anyone give some input about the strength of the bricks and mortar? I've always worried about the chances of the brick shattering or otherwise damaging the verneer. I'm sure drill bit choice is a big deal, but what kind of vertical presure are we talking about?

(post #177058, reply #5 of 13)

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G.

I just realized that you directed Caleb to drill through the mortar if the brick was already laid.

The one time I had to drill thru a brick wall, the guy at the hardware store insisted that I would be better off drilling through the brick. He said the mortar would crumble a lot in the vicinity of the drill bit.

So, is that nonsense? Should I drill the mortar in the future?

Thanks,

Rich Beckman

(post #177058, reply #7 of 13)

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Thanks a lot for your reply. This makes a lot of sense. Now for a followup question. Would you use the same system where the porch rafters meet the wall (rafters running perpendicular to the wall), or would you use some other system?

(post #177058, reply #8 of 13)

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Thanks for the reply, this makes a lot of sense. Now for a followup question. Do you use the same method to attach the rafters (where the rafters run perpendicuar to the wall), as you do for the joists?

In other words, do you put a ledger board on the outside of the brick with the rafters attached to it, then bolt the ledger board thru the brick? If this is the case, I'm assuming you add blocking between the wall studs ahead of time to run the bolts thru, as there will be no rim joist.

(post #177058, reply #10 of 13)

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Actually your partly right. It's a covered porch, on the outside of a two story brick veneer wall. However the house isn't built yet, and I'm trying to understand how to attach the porch, and porch roof to the wall. You provided a great answer to how to attach the porch floor, now I'm trying to understand how to attach the rafters.

The porch roof slops downward from the wall of the house towards the outside edge of the porch.

I've seen it done where a "leger" board is placed directly against the sheathing, and nailed in to the wall studs. The rafters are then attached to this "leger" board. This means that the rafters pass thru the brick veneer. How would you do it if you were building a new house and porch?

Thanks very much for all this help, it's greatly appreciated.

(post #177058, reply #13 of 13)

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Thanks, again for your help. Your mental picture of what I'm doing is correct.