since Jon made such a great suggestion about charging for service calls
I would like to run this idea past you all.
20 years ago—when I was starting out—-pretty much every roof I/we did—-was 20 year 3 tabs.– I offered 25 year 3 tabs as an upsell—no takers.
after a couple 3 years— I decided 20 year 3 tabs–were not worth my effort to install—especially since at the time– i think 25 year 3 tabs added maybe $60 to the price of my typical roofs.— so i made 25 year 3 tabs my base model—-with an upsell to 30 year 3 tabs—- everyone took the 25 year–no one took the 30 year
dimensional shingles enter the scene– i offer 25 year 3 tabs—and for a slight upsell 25 year dimensionals—-no one takes the dimensionals–well a very few do
i decide i like using the dimensional shingles better—– and so I offer 25 year dimensionals–and 25 year 3tabs at the SAME price—– dimensional market EXPLODES!!!!!!!
some years later–shingle manufacturers change shingle warranties—eliminate 25 year dimensionals–making 30 year dimensionals the base model. so I offer 30 year dimensionals and 30 year 3 tabs at the same price—30 year 3 tabs are now a special order item–not stocked.—– virtually COMPLETE customer acceptance of dimensional shingles—-maybe 3 roofs done with 3 tabs in the last 2 years
currently offering 30 year dimensional shingles as base model—upsell to 50 year dimensionals( now called “lifetime”)—most customers buy the 30 year dimensionals—-only a few buy the ” lifetime”
I would really prefer to use the “lifetime”–heavier,thicker,better looking,better wind resistance etc. my typical sized roof—-‘lifetime” shingle adds $250-$500 to cost of the job
todays question———-
what do you think would be customer reaction to listing “lifetime” product as our standard shingle———with an asterix at bottom noting—if customer prefers a less expensive 30 year shingle can be substituted for X amount LESS. ?
carefull to note— i have never really been able to upsell—-however–when i didn’t give them the upsell choice– I was able to lead them where i wanted them to go.
will this tactic sell the lifetime shingle?-or will customers downsell themselves back into the 30 year shingle/
or will this proposal just be too confusing–causing proposal to just be tossed out?
Wacha think???
stephen
Replies
oh, yeah.. i know you can sell the TL's !
it depends on the customer, of course..
but take someone in their 50's.... they may have it in their head that they want to die in that house.. so a TL makes a lot of sense.. epecially for the minimal upcharge
they will never have to deal with a roofer again... what a deal !
now .. if they are 50'ish and they intend to sell the house and move to FL... no.. probably not... but they will probably bite on the discount for the 50 year shingle...
i'd structure the deal to give you a little better profit for the shingle you WANT to install... i think it will show up in your enthusiasm for selling the upgrade
me..... it doesn't make any sense to spend all that money for a 50 year shingle , when for a few dollars more you can get a TL..
mike--- i gotta confirm this with my supplier
but i THINK what they told me was--
Certainteed-------- product line--- formerly 30,40,50 and TL
the 50 year is now "lifetime"---and the TL is still pricier than that.
gonna call now
stephen
Ok mike-----checked with my supplier----it is as i thought.
30 year landmark-----$47.25/sq.
40 year landmark-------$50.95/sq.
50 year landmark---now called lifetime---------$71.95/sq.
TL--------------------also a "lifetime"-----------$ 97.30/sq.
so-----on one of these modest local houses---the material difference between the 30 and the landmark lifetime is only about $370------but theoretically the benefit in durability is infinite
the difference between the 30 year and the TL-------- cost more than doubles, less colors to choose from, and the warranty is no better than the landmark lifetime( formerly 50)
can't see any measureable benefit to sell the TL to the customer
but the 50/lifetime--minimal price difference---huge quality difference over the 30
soooo history tells me that if i continue offering the 30 as the base model and try to upsell to the lifetime----few takers
history also seems to indicate--that i can just offer the 50/lifetime pointing out all the measureable benefits to it over the 30--- while not really offering them the 30---and 'force 'them to take the 50/lifetime.
in fact---- i would SO MUCH prefer to use the 50/lifetime--- i am tempted to just offer it to them at the same price I currently give them the 30
i can eat the $370
thinking,thinking,thinking-----but I WOULD like to know what others think
stephen
We really don't do much in the way of roofing but for the roodfing we do do we always pitch it to our customers in terms of Total Installed Cost per Year and 90% of the roofs we do are the more expensive 50yr/lifetime architectual type. When you look at the cost that way the difference between 50yr/lifetime and 25 or 30 year is negligible.
I am again reminded of the great W. Edwards Deming quote that the building consultant Scott Sedam often repeats: When Dr. Deming was asked how much his shoes cost. He looked down at them and said, “I don’t know ... I haven’t finished wearing them yet.”
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Agree completely with Jerrald--there is installed cost and there is life-cycle cost. You can differentiate the two for customers and some will go for a higher installed cost if the life-cycle cost is lower. If you offer something more expensive than the base, people wanna know "why should I spend more?" and if the answer is "you'll actually be spending less in the long term" then they may very well do it.
Jerrald,Thanks for that point, I've never thought of breaking it down in cost per year. Nothing like a lower number in the cost/year column to really drive the value home.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
That is the same rational that Fine Paints of Europe makes for using their very expensive but outstanding paints.
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You want a shingle called the Malarkey Legacy. It is a SBS modified, Class 4, impact resistant dimensional shingle ( which will earn your client a 15-25% reduction in their home insurance rate) It is around $85/square here in SE Nebraska. Their warranty is phenominal.
woody,
i ABSOLUTELY want the Malarkey shingles----unfortuneately they are not distributed in Ohio-------in fact about 4 years ago when I first found out about Malarkey shingles----their reps wouldn't even return Emails OR phone calls to me here.
stephen
Stephen,
The problem I see with making the heavier shingles your base model is availability. Most of the stuff over 30 year dimensionals is not stocked by my suppliers. I can't wait 'til the day before and call an order in. I have to schedule out a little more carefully and I also have to hit the quantities on the head. With 30 yr dims, if I order a square too much, they'll come pick 'em up and give me full credit. If they're nonstock items, they're mine.
Also, my subs want more for the heavy weights since there's more bundles per sq.
But, like you, I made 30 year dims the base model and charged the same for them as 25 year 3 tabs, since we could lay them quicker (no bonding). Hardly ever sold a 3 tab unless it was a match for an addition or something like that. I did the same thing with flashing. Same price for terne as copper, plus the terne had to be painted. Haven't touched a piece of terne in years.
http://logancustomcopper.com
http://grantlogan.net/
It's like the whole world's walking pretty and you can't find no room to move. - the Boss
I married my cousin in Arkansas - I married two more when I got to Utah. - the Gourds
grant--my subs PREFER the 50---because each bundle weighs less in Certainteed.
in akron--- the certainteed plant is maybe 2 hours away. my supplier gets several truckloads per DAY from them
so-i can order 50's on monday---with 7:30 Am rooftop delivery weds. no problem
and often order monday morning and get tuesday afternoon delivery----though typically I order monday morning, for friday delivery in preperation for work to start the following Monday morning.
admitedly--- returnability IS an issue-- i have 10 bundles of cobblestone grey sitting in my garage right now for just that reason.---it is an issue---but a small issue relatively. glad you pointed it out though
stephen
Stephen,
If you don't mind me asking........who are you using as a supplier? CC Supply, Modern Builders? I am looking to buy around 50 square of Certainteed 50's. I need valleys etc. As you may remember I live in Wadsworth. Thanks. Mike L.
sorry rooferman,
I haven't been here in a while-----just saw this.
currently i primarily use willoughby supply. I get fantastic service from them and their pricing is in line with everyone else( all though price is of very little consideration in this)
I also use ABC Supply for some odds and ends----there is an outlet a few minutes from my home. they are reasonably convenient for me to pick things up from---but their service is not up to willoughby supply standards.
I rarely buy from CC supply anymore.---it pains me to say that----but it is a fact.they are inconveniently located for me----and their service has dropped considerably in the last 20 years----time was they were almost the ONLY place i would buy from-------but they are just too understaffed now for their facility. It pains me to say it because over the years they have referred a lot of business to me--------but currently it requires about 80 minutes of my time to buy a tube of caulk from them or a roll of felt.
I would never---EVER, mother effing EVER buy anything from modern builders.-- they treated me really badly about 20 years ago-------I would retire before I would spend a nickle with them.
BTW----the 50 year Certainteeds are a special order from willoughby-----they come in in a day or so------but measure carefully------- they won't take returns on any leftover 50 year bundles.
Stephen
I thought i would update this thread .
my spring rush is over--------and usually at this time of the year I have a 4-6 weeks slow period to vacation,work on my own house, etc.
THIS year there is also a summer rush----even bigger than the spring------and since i still have a lot of college tuition to pay---- i will just skip summer vacation this year!
with regaurds to the 50 year/lifetime shingles sales push---------happy to report comfortable success there.
I did NOT make it mandatory this year------but decided to make a conscious effort to sell the 50 year/lifetime shingles where viable.
statistically-----my sales presentations/sales closed ratio works out to where I am batting .560------ I am happy with that
but my batting average on the 50 year/lifetime shingles is 1.0----more preciseley I am 4 for 4 when recommending the lifetime shingles-------so currently I believe my hunch this spring was correct------and this is a definite trend for me. Largest roof will be 118 square which will be the second largest we have done.
also-----use of copper, UP
Slate work, UP
cedar shingles, UP
use of 3 tab shingles-----non-existant!
skylight installation, UP
bicycle milage UP!
stephens personal weight, D
O
W
N
so-----all in all, things proceeding as planned.
Stephen
Stephen,
It seems you are bent on offering the 50/lifetime options as much as you can. I would think you should consider offering the upgrade at no additional cost just like you would consider selling your services for the per square rates that guys on the internet will tell you are the max you can get.
You've already proven that you've differentiated yourself enough to upsell your high level of service, why stop there?
I think you have a marketing angle to push. You can be the "Lifetime Roofer". You only install shingles that are warrantied for a lifetime and only install shingles with the care that your reputation demands. If the labor cost increase is a wash, than you could charge an extra $500 per house to install the lifetime shingles, make an extra $130 per job, and achieve your objective of using the shingles that you prefer to install.
If someone is budget-conscious enough that the $500 makes a difference, you could always quietly mention that you used to install 30 year shingles as well and that you could order those for this one job to meet their budget.
BTW- while I have you, please check out my thread on magnetic sweepers. I'm sure you have an opinion of value on this matter.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=86356.1
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
i'll tell you how to sell everyone the 50 ,mention when the next hail comes through in 12 years and the insurance company shows up they will pay as follows: 18 years left on 30 years less deductable, or 38 years on the 50 year shingle less deductable. i bet if you run a simple cost anylasis with that it would look real good to the homeowner. insurance for homes is getting tougher all the time and i don't expect it to get better .
it's a no brainer for me as a landlord except the roofers around here want to up charge double for the 50 year shingle. i wish you were here in the area i'd sign you up for 11 roofs that i have to replace this spring. can i ask why you feel the 50 year shingle goes down so much better that that is what you would prefer to lay? because to tell you the truth the 50 year warranty doesn't matter much to me,seems like there is always some fine print that bites you. i just feel it's some represention that it will last 1/2 again as long as a 30 year shingle and my insurance [state farm ]pro rates all wind and hail claims. if your coming to kansas bring your nailers!!!!!!! larry
hand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
I have looked at 2 roofs this year that were the Certainteed Hallmark ( the tiger stripe) that were 14 and 15 years old. Both going bad. 14 years ago i don't think anyone had a 40 year shingle. But in the last couple of years Certainteed considers the Hallmark to be a 40 year shingle. 14 years ago I think that was the top of the line for Certainteed.
It's a bummer to buy the best and then have it go bad on you.
I have torn off old style 3 tabs that lasted 30 years.
Kind of hard to trust the shingle companies anymore.
Myself I would pay the extra for the heavier shingle.
Just some thoughts.
From what I read so far, its more about technique of closing the sale. You've been using the "Three Choice Close". Which a customer given three choices will pick the one in the middle 90% of the time. So it really dose not matter what the 'upsale' is as long as it's more expensive than the middle choice you want them to pick in the first place.
Jerald suggested the "Reduce It to the Ridiculous" close and gave a good example. Best used when the choice is one product and they are already sold on the idea of using your service. Only works well when delivered in person I might add. "with an asterisk at bottom noting---if... " Not well in writing. I'd just note at the bottom that an "Up grade" was available if they're left to make a decision with out you there.
Have you ever read Tom Hopkins? Zig Ziggler? There are more ways to close a sale and names for them to fill a bookcase.
Best to you and yours, Chris.
Some say I know too much? Can you ever?
Stephen, why don't you just add the extra $500 and only offer the 50 year shingle? I'd toss in Jeralds suggestion and show the lifetime cost and simply present the offer. I'm willing to bet most of your clients won't know that there is a cheaper 30 year shingle if you don't tell them about it. If they don't buy your 50 year roof, then you certainly have the option of looking at the 30 year roof at $500 less.
Run with that program for a while and track your closing ratios. I doubt that you'd put a blib in them.
blue
"...
keep looking for customers who want to hire YOU.. all the rest are looking for commodities.. are you a commodity ?... if you get sucked into "free estimates" and "soliciting bids"... then you are a commodity... if your operation is set up to compete as a commodity, then have at it..... but be prepared to keep your margins low and your overhead high...."
From the best of TauntonU.
blue--- I am thinking this through carefully.
I will probably in '07 simply offer the 50 year---and ONLY the 50 year---but I will probably offer it at the same rate I am currently offering the 30 year. I WILL plug the bejabbers out of the fact that it IS a 50 yr. /lifetime product-----and WHY i suggest it.
At this point i am frequently about 40% higher than a lot of local outfits-----so i have room to absorb the cost difference while i track things.
tracking closing rates on this is tricky however--------- because it will actually take aboutTHREE years to get the final totals on this years sales ratios.( people tend to get roof proposals--and then save up for the cost).
by fall however, i will have a decent idea of customer acceptance of this over-all.
I am sure that both you and Jon have figured out that my marketing of these 50 yr. shingles is really about positioning things for OTHER types of work----and only incidentally about the roofing.
i have sat through MANY seminars plugging the "good,better,best" method of selling---- but tracking things for almost 20 years tells me--- that method doesn't work for me.
what works for me ---is eliminating as many customer choices as possible. Ideally--what works for me---is the customer has only ONE choice---
"is Stephen the guy for this or not?"---- If Stephen is the guy----then we are gonna have to do it Stephens way------- If stephen wants us to use this grade of shingle---and he has explained WHY---then that's what we are going to do.
stephen
That's an interesting position Stephen. I for one am one of those type of buyers that doesn't want the alternative closes. If you offer me three choices, I get confused. Confused people do nothing.
For instance, I walked into my favorite cafe yesterday and the proprietor asks me what I want today. After about three seconds of my blank look, she immediately suggests "Do you want me to surprise you with something?" which I immediately agreed too. I don't want to study the menu and discuss what her special is today...just bring it to me LOL and if I like it, I'll keep eating it.
I stopped going into Subways, even though I prefer their fast food to most because the "Sandwhich Architects" don't know how to make a sandwhich. I order the Itallian Special and they ask me what I want on it?!!! I am a Carpenter...I don't know squat about making sandwhiches!!!!
I'm going to guess there are a lot of people like me. I expect my Doctor to be the expert, same with my roofer, same with my barber. He asks me how do I want it cut I reply "make me look human". What should I say? I don't know anything about haircuts!!!! He's the freakin' barber eh?!
Your post really hit me with a reality and I'm going to have to talk to Frank about this a bit to help him start discovering which types of peoples he's dealing with. With the appropriate questions, I think it would be easy to discover whether someone wants alternative closes or just one shot.
blue"...
keep looking for customers who want to hire YOU.. all the rest are looking for commodities.. are you a commodity ?... if you get sucked into "free estimates" and "soliciting bids"... then you are a commodity... if your operation is set up to compete as a commodity, then have at it..... but be prepared to keep your margins low and your overhead high...."
From the best of TauntonU.
blue_eyed_devil "....I for one am one of those type of buyers that doesn't want the alternative closes. If you offer me three choices, I get confused. Confused people do nothing."
You may very well be someone who doesn't like alternatives and choices but you are therefore in a very small if not tiny minority of the population. You should be careful in you thinking with customers then because to think that maybe 'people don't want choices' could be a tragic mistake.
There was a study I read a couple of years ago about people remodeling their home and the thing that most people found most disturbing was that they had given up control of their house, their home, to their contractor. Given people choices, letting them choose this finish here, letting them choose this appliance there, (or perhaps a couple of different shingling options) was seen as a way of giving customers a perception if not giving them back some real control over their home and their project.
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jerrald----if we were talking about remodeling a kitchen----your point might be accurate
but as far as a roof--- i CAN tell you--MOST people do not care.
It's really pretty funny how MANY people can not tell me over the phone roughly what color their roof is-----without going outside to look at it.
AND----- almost without exception---people when forced to pick a color---people will choose the color most similar to what they have at present.( not what the color originally was---but what it has faded and discolored to.)
stephen
Stephen the research that says [most] people want choices isn't remodeling specific. It applies to package shipping, buying a car, buying sneakers, doctor treatments, buying a computer, etc etc. You may think that most people don't care about their roof only because your not offering them choices or offer them choices in a language and format they understand.
"It's really pretty funny how MANY people can not tell me over the phone roughly what color their roof is-----without going outside to look at it." I'm not surprised by that at all. But just because they unaware of something like that doesn't mean they don't want options.
But ya know what? This debate is moot. A contractor who offers choices can easily address both the potential customers who want choice and that rare minority that don't. Whereas a contractor who offers limited or no choices can only properly address and serve the potential clients who don't care about choice.
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Jerrald---there is a reason i am not a kitchen contractor, or a painting contractor, or a wall paper hanger---LOL
however--to expand on henry fords premise---
they can have all the choices they want---as long as it is contained on my 50 year Elk sample board--or my 50 year certainteed sample board.
Back when 20 year shingles were our norm---i offered a choice of half lap or 90# for small flat roofs---like kitchens or porches. customers couldn't decide.
since THOSE 2 choices only last 8-12 years---as soon as i found out about EPDM-- I began offering THAT as well---well customers can't decide between hallf lap, 90# and Epdm------so i started offering ONLY EPDM---end of problem
then came self adhering modified bitumen--single ply,2 ply,3ply systems--some significant residential advantages over EPDM----customers couldn't decide-----so I have pretty much eliminated EPDM--end of problem
experience tells me--there are somethings people do not care enough about--are not interested enough in--to really WANT choices---for most people ,residential roofing is just such a thing.
you think it is a rare customer who DOESN'T want a choice in this
but about 20 years of dealing almost exclusively in residential roofing tells me it is
a rare customer who DOES want a choice.
ALL of them would rather spend the money on something else
remember-- I am in the "solving peoples problems" business---while most of YOU folks are more in the "making peoples dreams come true" business
choices for YOUR customers---are really the whole ball game----but for MY customers choices are just---more problems for them!
i DO see what you are saying--and believe me-I don't arrive at this willy-nilly. i arrive at it observing actual results that seem to be counter intuitive to conventional wisdom.---but then I am not looking for conventional RESULTS either-----------------
thinking, thinking
Stephen
You've got a point about roofs and a limited desire for choices.I just had some routine maintenance done on my roof. The inciting factors were a small leak at the front of the house into the wall, and the front side of the tar and gravel roof looked like heck from gravel washing away from certain areas.I had three roofers come out. I asked the first one what the roof needs, whether or not it needs to be replaced, and what kind of costs we're talking about. He described several different options, including replacing the roof with a 2-layer (probably modified bitumen but I'mn not sure) system, tar and gravel, or shingles (my house has about 3:12 slope in most areas, the back portion is flat, and there are these bump-ups with steeper sides in the front); or sealing the edges with elastomeric and resticking the gravel to the worn areas. He mentioned the cause of the leak was due to an unroofed undershot at the front of the house. Never got any sense of what he recommended or why. He never sent an estimate, either.The second came up to the roof, and said "Your roof is 3-ply fiberglass, is about 7 years old give or take 2 years, and should last 20 with routine maintenance every 5 years. It needs the undershot/overhang at the front taken apart so that we can get to the undershot to roof where the last roofer didn't [to address the leak]. It needs all of the roof penetrations sealed, including this one that is cracking, and that one that your heating contractor didn't mop in because plumbers usually don't. We will add flashing to the back wall where it is missing, and reflash the chimney. The cost will be $2865." (Well, OK, the quote came in an e-mail that evening, but almost everything in the itemization of work to be done he gave me while we were on the roof.)The third one came up and said there didn't really look like much that needed to be done. He said he could restick the gravel and reseal the penetrations for about $500. When asked about the leak, he pushed on the flashing of the overhang with his toe and said probably if they resealed that, it would solve the leak.Guess which one I hired? The one who told me, not asked me, what needed to be done. They brought their kettle and finished in less than a day, and my fiance still complains about how much money I spent.I usually want to have meaningful options, with pros and cons and relative costs explained to me, and I want to decide. In the case of the roof, I just wanted it taken care of.Now if I were having a new house built and I were in the planning and designing stages, it would be a whole 'nother story -- I'd be asking about pros and cons of different kinds of roofing systems and the works. But even if this had turned out to be a reroof, I had a strong inclination to just go with the kind I already have, and I was tickled to find someone who seemed to know what he was doing and to know what needed to be done.Rebeccah
Rebeccah,
you would fit in very nicely with about 75% of my customers. additionally--your story illustrates WHY I love repair work---------
BTW-- contractor #1---- he wanted to please you--but he wanted to sell you a new roof even more--he did not, I imagine ,trust himself to do a repair----and he probably didn't get the impression from you--that you wanted to pay for a new roof.
contractor#2-- i suspect he madean appointment-or showed up quite on time. I suspect he was polite and reasonably friendly---but at the same time pretty brisk,business like, confident, thorough to the point--if viewed a little differently might seam just a skosh arrogant?
he told you what you WANTED to hear--- the roof doesn't need replacing---has the majority of it's life ahead---but that you need to spend some money now to achieve that( due to the leak--you KNEW you had to spend some money)-- in a dozen different ways-- he conveyed to you that he knew what your problem was, he had solved it countless times before and that he would solve YOURS as well
he gave you a price-maybe higher than you wanted--but one you could afford
contractor #3---you didn't know what you wanted and HE didn't know what you OR he wanted
really---with you---only #2 EVER had the slightest chance
I faced a similar thing today---prospective customer has problem----2 equally good choices/techniques to solve problem. Neither choice is perfect. I carefully explain pro's and cons of EACH choice--- customer un-able to pull trigger. he has ALL the relevant info to make a choice---and he even has considerable experience with this in a general way----just can't pull the trigger
and so he looks to me to make the decision
would have been simpler for BOTH of us---if i had decided in advance which of the 2 methods would be best--and present ONLY that method
I would have been making the same either way-I have no financial interest one way or the other
but in the end---what ever i recommend-is what they choose--more times than not.
Best wishes to you,
stephen
BTW-- contractor #1---- he wanted to please you--but he wanted to sell you a new roof even more--he did not, I imagine ,trust himself to do a repair----and he probably didn't get the impression from you--that you wanted to pay for a new roof.
I'm sure you are correct about this.
contractor#2-- i suspect he madean appointment-or showed up quite on time. I suspect he was polite and reasonably friendly---but at the same time pretty brisk,business like, confident, thorough to the point--if viewed a little differently might seam just a skosh arrogant?
All three had appointments, and this guy was actually a few minutes late because his watch battery started dying, but he was very apologetic and assured me that he is generally never late. His crew was here right on time in the morning, too. He was polite and very friendly, but yes, brisk, businesslike, confident, and thorough. I would not say he was at all arrogant.
he told you what you WANTED to hear--- the roof doesn't need replacing---has the majority of it's life ahead---but that you need to spend some money now to achieve that( due to the leak--you KNEW you had to spend some money)-- in a dozen different ways-- he conveyed to you that he knew what your problem was, he had solved it countless times before and that he would solve YOURS as well
Exactly correct. He conveyed this in a dozen different ways, and he also conveyed it explicitly with words.
he gave you a price-maybe higher than you wanted--but one you could afford
contractor #3---you didn't know what you wanted and HE didn't know what you OR he wanted
really---with you---only #2 EVER had the slightest chance
Yup.
arrogant is not a perfect choice of words--but it is as close as I can come.
I don't see it as arrogant either--in fact when a plumber comes to my house projecting that confidence--i am hugely relieved!!!!!!
but SOME people see it as arrogance. I think usually it is people who have complete controll in their professional lives-are quite expert in certain areas--- and can't give it up in THIS area.--- people who actually believe the customer is always right.
when i take our vehicles to our mechanic-- i describe the problems or symptoms we are noticing.--- then i DEPEND on him to tell me what the solution is-and what the cost is---I don't want 3 choices---and I certainley don't have the experience to adequately weigh the pro's and cons of those 3 choices- just tell me what to do-and how much it costs!
best wishes,
stephen
I think you're describing situations where you're paying for a result that is needed and the background knowledge to make an informed choice is not there. At this point you want to trust that the person or company that you are working with is professional in the field and will make the appropriate choices in your interest. You provide a good example of professionalism in your field: you want to select and use a product as the standard that will give them an excellent roof and satisfy yourself that your providing the best possible service to the customer. By all means, sell the 50 year as the standard and offer the 30 year product when the customer's budget is limited; but think hard about eating the extra... Marc
blue--- i have a " book of the day' calendar---every day a new book is suggested and reviewed
since 2-15-07 I have been trying to get this book from the library--might have to buy it instead
" the paradox of choice:why more is less" by barry shwartz
" the cliche is true. more is less. turns out our happiness is at risk when we have too many options available to us. social scientist schwartz illuminates why having to choose between ,say, relaxed fit jeans and easy fit jeans creates stress and unhappiness where there should be controll and liberation.'wonderfully readable says the washington post', " simplify,simplify," says thoreau.
ever walk down the cereal aisle at supermarket blue?---is my life better for having those choices?
wouldn't i probably be happier with 5 cereal choices---rather than 75?
stephen
Stephen - "ever walk down the cereal aisle at supermarket blue?---is my life better for having those choices?
wouldn't i probably be happier with 5 cereal choices---rather than 75?"
You are pointing out the real conundrum to all of this. While people want choices at the same time the array of choices that marketer offers can sometimes be overwhelming and confusing. You do need to simplify and clarify the choices.
When Steve Jobs came back to Apple one of the most important things he did to rescue the company was to simplify the choices a consumer would have to make. He narrowed and consolidated the product lines and even eliminated some entirely.
It's a balancing act you have to play. Hey were are in the railing business and even I'm staggered and confused by all the choices we can offer our clients especially when you consider the vast array of parts and components available in the metalworking world. We wouldn't dream of sitting down with a potential customer with our libraries of railing and baluster parts. As "experts" in our discipline we need to really need to get to know our potential client and then define and direct them to a limited array of choices that are right ones for them.
"wouldn't i probably be happier with 5 cereal choices---rather than 75?" Yes, very certainly, but five choices, and maybe only three, but not just one.
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Jerrald-- the stair rails are a good example
from one perspective I would offer only ONE choice--the 50 year dimensional shingle
HOWEVER--- that still leaves8-10 color choices in the Landmark board alone--plus the Elk board--16-20 choices over all.
It's not exactly like i am saying" Mam, your choice is 50 year , black--or nothing" !
stephen
Why Certainteed? And do you find it superior to Elk?
I'm down in Georgia; few wood roofs. Mostly asphalt/composition in new construction.
from the sales perspective I would assume the sale since you are in the home. So assume the homeowner only wants the best ie lifetime shingles. When they balk at the price if they balk at the price then you can isolate the objection etc When all objections are answered and price is still an issue then you can offer the 30 year shingles with a full explanation as to why they are not the best and what the differences are. Using this approach the only people who would choose 30 years are those who truley cant afford the other or just dont want the other.
From a Sales perspective- if you are having trouble closing or with any other part of the sales process- call some companies and sit through their presentation. Especially Home Depots At Home Services core products like roofing, siding and windows. If you can learn from seeing it in action and it helps you then thats worth it. They dont have to know you dont intend to buy. Also give them the objections that others give you to see how they handle it. I used to sell for them and thier training is fantastic for selling. Its how I still sell so well on my own, and its how I can sell against them for those services and win.
-worth exactly 2 cents!