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how to handle trim,stucco english tudor

alwaysoverbudget's picture

first let me say this, here in ks if you have anything but a ranch style house ,your oddball. so this house is a little unusual around here,so no one really knows what to do with it since it's not masonite and pine trim


looks to me like this house has all the vertical and horizontal trim nailed in place and then they came in and floated the stucco to it. well now 80 years later it's all pretty rotten and i'm not sure how to handle it.


do you just pry out the wood ,fit new [cedar?]and caulk the heck out of it?


i have a idea but before anyone calls me a hack and gets the boot for it,i'll take full credit for it. idea is to replace whats completely rotten,leave the rest. then take a pc of 1/4 hardi siding and rip it about 3/4 of a inch wider than whats there now. run a big bead of caulk down the old wood where it meets the stucco,then slap the hardi in place ,overlapping 3/8 on each side. then run a nice bead of caulk and go on. do all of the trim that way.


does that get the hack award? anyway let me know what you do to handle this.


 


trying to post a pic ,we'll see.


YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'T
MOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THE
DUCT TAPE.

the older i get ,

the more people tick me off

(post #108498, reply #1 of 18)

the pic took,nice resolution,huh? sorry maybe i can take some others that are better

YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'T
MOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THE
DUCT TAPE.

the older i get ,

the more people tick me off

(post #108498, reply #4 of 18)

I don't understand your description of what you're planning to do.  And I agree with Pete there should be a flashing between stucco and horizontal trim.  But if the trim comes off easy, and is easy to replace, and its really lasted 80 years, then that ain't bad.  You could just backprime and paint the new trim before installing, then caulk as you install (not after). 


Here in drought city, Calif. they stucco up to vertical trim all the time.  Inevitably the trim shrinks, and there is a gap that has to be caulked. 


Here is probably a better solution - this is a product I found online, foam core with a poymer coating http://www.primestucco.com/




"...everyone needs to sit on a rock, listen to the surf, and feel the ocean breeze in their face once in awhile."

cambriadays.com

(post #108498, reply #9 of 18)

my description is a little fuzzy, but basiclly get all the bad wood replaced.mainly so i have good wood to nail to. then reface all the trim in 1/4 hardi.


2 advantages to this,one it would overlap a little giving me a little better caulking area. and also a nice surface to paint to.


seems like it would work real well on the verticals,but the horizonals would not be flush to the stucco,they would protrude a 1/4.


aorund here what most people are doing is ripping the stucco off,reside in a sheet good [like hardi,masonite,etc] and the going in and nailing the trim pieces on top of that. well that makes a 3/4 protrusion.


YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'T
MOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THE
DUCT TAPE.

the older i get ,

the more people tick me off

(post #108498, reply #11 of 18)

"aorund here what most people are doing is ripping the stucco off,reside in a sheet good [like hardi,masonite,etc] and the going in and nailing the trim pieces on top of that. well that makes a 3/4 protrusion. "


My earlier BTDT.


The joints behind the trim boards leak.  The trim boards get soaked from behind and even RS cedar has to replaced every painting cycle.  The flat horitonzal of the trim board holds mositure and even copious amounts of caulking won't keep the water out.


This particular approach does have merit however, but it also needs a Z flashing capping every hortizonal board.  This flashing has to extend up and behind the waterproof sheet good.  So the trim board actually sits just below the horizonal joints to get the flashing functional.


 

(post #108498, reply #2 of 18)

BTDT - almost. 


I really cannot describe how to do it, but someway, somehow, you gotta get a Z flashing in there to overlap the wood.  It needs to be buried in the stucco.


A man of your talents can figger it out.


Caulk won't last.

(post #108498, reply #3 of 18)

i buy what your saying if a guy was putting new stucco up,but i don't know how you could do that with this one,the stucco probably wouldn't take much before falling off!


 


you know,it's interesting to me that the way this house is done,it has to leak at the wood/stucco joint. yet after 80 years the thing has not rotted to the ground. but if you did the same thing with todays materials, if would be falling off in 10 years. whats up with that? it's still pine sheeting and 2x4's. this house doesn't know what treated acq wood is.......


YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'T
MOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THE
DUCT TAPE.

the older i get ,

the more people tick me off

(post #108498, reply #5 of 18)

I just ran into the same situation on a Mediterranean house I'm working on.
I blew out a wall to install french doors so I ended up cutting the Stucco back about 3/8" above where the trim would be. I tried to slide in some z-metal but the old metal lath was so twisted and buried into the stucco and wood and everything else that there was no way to get it in there. I ended up cutting off the top leg of the flashing except for the last 1/4 inch or so, so that it still had a lip to keep water from going back, then caulked the heck out of the gap and embedded the z metal in there.

I felt like a hack until my plaster guy showed up (who's REALLY good) and he said short of cutting the stucco back a ways more and then installing the z metal and then patching back in stucco up to that, there would be no way to slip that flashing under the metal lath.

If you really can't put in some z-metal, maybe you could bevel the top edge of the trim you put back in (it looked like it was flat stock?) and still caulk the heck out of it.

I'm just not knowledgeable enough about stucco to know if there are some other, better tricks out there.

Paul

(post #108498, reply #6 of 18)

maybe you could bevel the top edge of the trim you put back in

IMG_6857


"...everyone needs to sit on a rock, listen to the surf, and feel the ocean breeze in their face once in awhile."

cambriadays.com

(post #108498, reply #7 of 18)

A lot of tudors in this town. One thing I have noticed on some is the "trim" is actually raised stucco that is painted a different color. i don't know how this would work on a retrofit, but if you have a good stucco guy...


 Is that gable flush?


                            Mike


    Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.

                            Mike

    Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.

(post #108498, reply #8 of 18)

yes it is flush all the way,well it used to be. in some places the wood has curled a little ,making a 1/8 to 1/4 edge. this is mostly on the verticle's.

YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'T
MOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THE
DUCT TAPE.

the older i get ,

the more people tick me off

(post #108498, reply #10 of 18)

Well I agree that you should tear it down and start from scratch so your idea has merit.. Let me make one suggestion though.. don't buy pine!


 pine decays too easily and while it may have lasted 80 years a better wood will last much longer..


  Here's what I would do in your case..  Tear out the old decaying wood and replace it with a decay resistant new wood..   White oak is such a wood but so is tamarack and tamarack is considered a junk wood.


  Find a local sawmill that sells wood to pallet mills or sells railroad ties and see what naturally decay resistant woods they have.  They will be really cheap!  Ask and I'll give you directions and help finding them.


  When you put it back together try to think like a raindrop that's being driven by wind and figure out a way to flash it so the rain can't get past it even if the chaulk should fail..


  As for what you discover after you remove the trim, chances are you'll find rotted boards..   Use a product like Git rot rather than make this an elaborate and extremely expensive repair.   Yeh I know all the arguements but in all reality you don't have enough to tear down the house and start over..


  Just looking at the pictures I think the  house would look better with wider trim which will also make the repair easier..  just screw a wider board over the trim.  Do a great job of chaulking the trim  with a really good chaulk and chances are the repair will well outlast you..


 Check the chaulk with every paint job.

(post #108498, reply #12 of 18)

that sounds like it would work.  In another thread on stucco, florida told me that wood to stucco would always be a problem.  I am having to butt wood to stucco on my  house.  I won't be able to do what you are proposing.


I can't see any other way that would work.  The hardi and stucco shouldn't move that much as they are both cement products.

(post #108498, reply #13 of 18)

Catfish:  you're absolutely correct  wood and morter or stucco will always be in conflict.   If Rape is inevitable relax and enjoy it..


  What I mean by that is water will get in,, so plan for how it can also get out..


  Then no problem occurs.. what I did was provide water exit paths in my morter. )(ask I'll give the details) 

(post #108498, reply #14 of 18)

If ____ is inevitable relax and enjoy it.


Frenchy, really.  That has to be the worst metaphor I have ever heard! 




"...everyone needs to sit on a rock, listen to the surf, and feel the ocean breeze in their face once in awhile."

cambriadays.com

(post #108498, reply #15 of 18)

My father taught all of the girls that..  Taken out of context it sounds terrible. However my father explained that the worst thing that could happen is death.. anything other than death is prefered..   So he told the girls first to avoid potential situations that could lead to that sort of event,, If they found themselves in that sort of situation get out with all speed and don't worry about anything except their safety.. Embarassment, damage to  clothes or cars or whatever really didn't matter as much as their safety.  However if the worst happened  to somehow live through it and then they could report it to the police and seek justice,, However it was important to live through the event..


Go passive, avoid eye contact, do whatever they could to survive.  If there were people around scream.  If there was a chance to fight off their rapist, fight but when they did fight to win. 


  Survival was most important..


  My older sisters practiced on me a few times and dad told them I wouldn't give them any quarter  Once I pinned them down on the ground they lost so they fought like tigars and were far from helpless..


 "In fact my younger sister stills brings up the time she pinned me". 


 Rape is a reality for women and it's up to us men to teach them how to avoid if possible and how to survive if not..


 One bit of triviality, more men are raped than women! by 2 to 1

(post #108498, reply #17 of 18)

Ah Gotcha!  Most male rapes occur in prison and are thus unreported..

(post #108498, reply #18 of 18)

today i tore in to it a little more.found a detail i didn't know about.


they used 3/4 boards then cut a 1/2 x 1/2 dado on the back side,this way the stucco actually goes back in behind the board a little. if your working with something similar ,might help with water intrusion.


on the horizonal joints, 1/2 had a flashing embeded into the stucco,the other didn't. sometimes you wonder how that stuff happens.


still leaning toward overlaying with hardi.


any other ideas from anyone or is frenchy going to turn this into a rape thread. maybe i should ask about finishing my wood with shellac..............


YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'T
MOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THE
DUCT TAPE.

the older i get ,

the more people tick me off