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Installation of TJI joists

rh79's picture

I have a question regarding the installation of TJI joists.  I recently encountered my framers setting the TJI joist in place with multiple toenails then applying the hangers.  Is this an exceptable technique (see photo)?  The manufacturerer only states to NOT toenail the joist but does not explain why.  I am concerned that this technique has likely compromised the structural integrity of the joist.  I have shown this to my structural engineers who believes that once the hangers are placed the structural intergrity should be fine.  Any thoughts?

One wonders WHY your carps (post #214883, reply #1 of 5)

One wonders WHY your carps did it that way, but if hangers are properly installed subsequently then it shouldn't be a problem (so long as it doesn't get much worse than what we see).

(If they needed temporary support they could have easily temporarily tacked a piece of 2x to the wall plate.)

Of all the preposterous assumptions of humanity over humanity, nothing exceeds most of the criticisms made on the habits of the poor by the well-housed, well-warmed, and well-fed.  --Herman Melville

Wow!  Framing is considered (post #214883, reply #2 of 5)

Wow!  Framing is considered rough carpentry,  but that is really rough.  Do I think the strength of the joists is compromised? No, probably not.  But, toenailing the flanges can (did) cause splits which can weaken the connection at the flange/web intersection.  I can't think of a decent reason to toenail I Joists before installing hangers.  I joists are uniform in dimension so installing hangers, which are usually top mount, first is the best, fastest way to go.  With solid lumber, toenailing is common so the joist tops can be flushed with the beam, header, etc.  For I Joists, no way.  I hope it's not too late fo some quality control with the rest of the frame.. 

I haven't logged on to the (post #214883, reply #3 of 5)

I haven't logged on to the site for quite some time, but your question is just too compelling. 

Your contractor doesn't know his but from a hot rock. That installation of tji's dangerously incompetent. And I can't say that your engineer has his/her head screwed on right either. Just look in that first photo how badly the bottom flange is split. There's no way the contractor can get a joist hanger to seat correctly. I suspect that your contractor has no intention of installing hangers. And without them, this will fail!

Fire him and hire someone who knows what he's doing. 

Tacking joists in place is (post #214883, reply #4 of 5)

Tacking joists in place is not a problem. Unless you obliterate the end of the thing in the process. 

Too Late now but... (post #214883, reply #5 of 5)

Too late now but one has to ask why those joist don't set on top of that beautifull horizontal plate?  I suppose there could be a logical explanation based on what is happening on the other side of that rim.

I have to tisk tisk tisk at the split bottom flange, but if hangers are installed.... and yes the installer will have to bash the bottom flange upwards to flatten the will be all fine.  But tisk tisk tisk. 

I have been there with my framer too, who has not.  My framer was pretty good, but I had issues.  Nothing structural, mostly a bowed wall here, a non plum post, ...  Nothing serious and nothnig the averager joe would see.  But tisk tisk tisk