Caught between installer and designer…HELP!
(Both have experience in install and design)
A debate has stalled my kitchen install over the method used to install the crown molding.
Situation: Kitchen and laundry remodel. Corwn intended only for the kitchen. Installer accidentally began installing crown in laundry. 1/2 the room is done. Now we don’t have enought to finish the laundry or the kitchen.
Designer says:
- Installer didn’t read drawings.
- Installer shot (brad nailed) crown directly onto face frame of partial overlay cabinets. This means it can’t be removed without unsightly touch ups to face frame. Now the overlay of the doors is unbalanced/unequal reveals (1″ exposed frame on sides and bottom, 0″ at top.)
- Installer should have used mounting blocks on top of face frame, and attached crown to blocks.
- This was a “lazy” way of installing.
Installer says:
- Yes, drawings showed no crown in laundry, it was a mistake.
- He always attaches crown to the face frame (partial overlay only)
- That the point about the exposed frame/reveals is not a valid point, and has no bearing on the method of install.
- Attaching crown directly to the face frame is not only common, but appropriate.
- Designer is trying to make him look bad.
Additionally,
- How tight is “tight enough” on a crown corner? How tight where crown meets wall?
- Is it acceptable/common to leave brads visible, and not touched up?
Any input is welcome…I just want a reasonable quality job, and don’t want to be taken advantage of.
Replies
Did you buy the cabinets from the installer or designer?
Is the installation being provided by the designer?
Did the designer recommend the installer?
Does the designer have a showroom where you saw the crown detail you want?
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Edited 7/25/2003 11:28:02 AM ET by GEOB21
i've installed kitchen cabinets for 15 years and those errors sound like an installation problem to me
all fasteners for cabinet installation should not be visible except on opening the cabinet doors, this is from my installation manual from my cabinet manufacturer and includes nails for crown and valance
miters in all trim can and should be perfect with no fillers or gaps
mitering and installing prefinished trim is tricky, i regularly wil recut a miter 1/2 degree for a perfect fit, its part of the job and not that difficult
anybody can screw boxes to the wall, the sign of a good tradesman is in the finely fitted trimwork
caulking is not a piece of trim
sorry forgot last question
an end of a piece of crown on cabinets should require NO caulking, ie the return piece should be scribed to fit the wall or an appropiate piece mitered in to fill the gap
caulking is not a piece of trim
I do not nailing blocking and then install the crown; I install directly to the face frame, unless the plans show something different. But shooting the crown right on top of the cabinet doors sound really cheezy to me. Probably need to me pulled off, holes patched and crown re-installed.
Running out of crown is a stupid mistake, but certainly not the worst I have ever seen. I would have the installer pay for replicating the crown. Hopefully it is stock, and this is a $4 a foot problem. If not, knives will have to be made and the molding made on a sticker or molding machine.
One poster said it was pre-finished crown, but I didn't notice that on the post. If it is, then someone (???) needs to fill the holes with putty and give the area a wash coat finish like a light lacquer or a 50-50 varnish-spirits coat. Who was contractually responsible? If it is not in the installers contract, then the GC or the homeowner has to arrange for finishing the millwork.
Bottom line: Sounds like poor installation, crown should be ripped off, holes patched, new crown purchased, and re-installed under supervision of GC or designer, whoever is being paid for supervision. Also, some of this is your fault--you need to hire a single person to be solely responsible for a task, like a GC. If you hired the installer then it is up to you to supervise him. So like one of the posters, I need to know more information to affix blame.
Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
i have to disagree with you on one point
a qualified cabinet installer knows how to install crown molding above cabinets just like a trim carpenter knows how to hang a door or a framer knows how to build a wall
wether the cabinets are face frame or euro style, nofasteners should be visible and thus, brads do not have to covered
miters in prefinished cabinets' crown should be precisely mitered and scribed, joints are glued with tape of some kind to hold the miters together until dry(i use packing tape)
if the job is done properly no fillers or putties are required
like i said before, anyone can screw cabinets to a wall, the pride in my work is in flawless trimcaulking is not a piece of trim
Steve, how is trim attached to millwork without visible fasteners?
Call me a wood butcher, but I just shoot nails and cover the holes with carefully color selected putty and do a wash coat. I read your post about no visible fasteners, and while I am not a full time cabinet installer, I have been in remudling for jeez, about 29 years, and I am at a loss as to how one would do this.
Now I build furniture, and would attach trim with bisquits or dowels or splines. I don't think I would do that except on the highest end cabinets, as one would have to glue and clamp, which is challenging for crown on a free standing cabinet, and darn near impossible on built in casework.
Help me out here, seriously. Maybe I can lern somthin.
I agree with you on the coping of miters etc.
Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
i install many kitchens a year, usually one a week or so, and have never had fasteners visible except when opening a cabinet door
i do mostly euro style cabinets and my crown has a flange that sits on the top of the cabinet for nailing, either from inside the cabinet or down from the top, if its a face frame, i place blocking behind the frame to make it flush
i never nail a miter closed, glue is all i ever use, if the joint wont close easily, then the miter has to be recutcaulking is not a piece of trim
Aha, the flange!
Is that a shop built and glued piece of wood, or some piece of metal?
Never heard of such a thing. Interesting.
Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
wow this conversation is quicker than email!!
yes the prefinished crown from my suppliers has built in 1 inch by 1/2 flange for fastening
of course this is the only way to fasten without visible fasteners
if i was faced with a prefinished molding with no flange, i'd either glue on a flange of some kind, or face nail, depending on the wood species, oak for exxample is easy to hide 18 ga nails, maple or cherry of course much more difficultcaulking is not a piece of trim
Steve,
The method being argued as the preferred method is as follows...
Attach a 3/4" x 3/4" x (cabinet width minus 1") wood block to the top edge of the face frame, by screwing/shooting from above. This can be done prior to install of each cabinet. This is also done to outside/end faces. (The block is cut shorter than the width to prevent any potential overlap...)
After hanging of the cabinet, crown can now be cut, and mounted to the "mounting block" without the need to face nail into the face frame, and maintaining the full reveal above the door.
The designer (who also has been an installer) states firmly that this method works for both full and partial overlay cabinets, does not jeopardize the face frame, maintains the reveal, and allows future changes without damaging cabinets, etc.
The argument is very persuasive...any thoughts?
"The method being argued as the preferred method is as follows..."
Why is the $%#&$ do you care?
Really that is a serious question. Did you contract for cabinets with the intention that you would be the arbritrator of differeent installation methods?
Or did you contract with the big box store to have certain set of cabinets designed and installed in a workman like method.
I think that latter.
In that case you SHOULD NOT BE IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS.
The big box store is working for you. The designer and the installer are working for the BBS.
Tell the designer that is it there problem to get fixed. And if that does not happen the next step is to go to higher ups in the BBS.
The next time that the installer or the designer try to get in you the middle of it tell than that you standard construction consultation fees are $100 an hour and as soon as they sign a contract you will discuss it.
Thanks for boiling this down to the base issue. I am taking that stand.
But...
I also believe in being an educated consumer, and am truly interested in learning about this. (Especially since it represents a major purchase for us.) That is why I keep asking for some type of published standard or reference.
I have even been looking at a copy of the millwork standards published by the Architectural Woodwork Institute, but can find no specific reference to acceptable install methods. (Although they do address the allowable gap)
So, I am still soliciting input from anyone willing to give it. And I do sincerely appreciate all of it.
Another Big Box saga!
;)
The open mitre is not quality installation. But you will be hard put to find a book that says so. Like defining obscenity, a decent person knows it when he sees it. A good carpenter recognizes bad work but a hack says, "That's the way I always do it." expecting you to accept it that way.
I always use blocks added to top of cab in manner described by the designer. Photo below shows how it can look. I do shoot nails to install the crown but filllwith putty stick on prefinished stock cabs. Custom units we build have no exposed fasteners.
I agree that it's the retailers mess to deal with. your job is to be loud and persistent until they make you happy.
Incidentally, in this photo, there is evidence of a home center designers mistake. Anybody see what it is?
.
Excellence is its own reward!
Appreciate your input, and am very interested in this "mistake"...
I won't ask you to reveal it yet, I don't want to spoil your fun!
Off set in the crown.
Crown incorrectly sized.
Corner cab too shallow.
All of the above.
Edited 7/26/2003 12:59:05 AM ET by IMERC
This came from a big box that is no longer in business but the designer went to work for _________!
So we can expect more of the same.
I did layout and design of this kitchen no less tha eight times as we were building the house, none of them satisfactory designs for the lady owner. I finally told her to give the box a try, not believing they could come up with anything better. This is what she ordered.
It is the size of the corner unit. It should have been the 14" size instead of the 12" one. Then the side units would have needed to be smaller to fit into their respective spaces.
The crown would have stopped the corner door from openning. We did some head scratching and did what you see. The owner just told us, "Of course it will work. It's just like the one on disply at the store."
I took a trip to town to see how they did it. They had one with tops all aligned at same height and another with bumped up top in corner that had no crown. The manufacturer also offered a 14" unit for this application but the designer didn't read her book.
This kitchen has always stuck in my craw because I offered so many solid workable layouts that werre rejected. The house is for sale now and the real estate agent told me, "That one will be hard to sell because of the way she had you do that kitchen."
Just as I was finishing the cab installation, the husband suggested changing it because of the bads it had. his wife said, " You just be quiet. Piffin and I worked hard to design this!"
Man did I ever bite my tongue! Then I said something like, "Well, this is a little different than any of my ideas..."
;).
Excellence is its own reward!
In all I shouldn't P&M to much about BB subs. Some of them have been profitable for me. Same for hacks.
On the other hand I wish I'd be compinsated for every time I've heard "at the BB they want x$ for almost the same thing" or "they wil install it for X$." "That is their business they know what they are talking about."
I just say "Enjoy" or something to that affect and go on about my way.
Didn't say any thing about the cab elevation because I thought that was more than likely part of the plan.
The center cabinet height stands out like a sore thumb. I see why the crown has a joint and bend in each side. If you ran the crown straight you couldn't open the door. I would have the cabinet height shortened or left the crown off. I realize it could take weeks to get another cabinet of the correct height but may be the best option.
Mike
microwave cabinet should be all finished veneer?
caulking is not a piece of trim
and the larger raised cabinet should have been deeper
in my cabinet language the regular uppers are say 1230 wall and a regular corner cabinet would be a 2430 WA, ie 24 wide by 30 wall angle, if a taller cabinet is used in the corner it should be a 2736 WA which would have 15 inch gables instead of 12caulking is not a piece of trim
here's what I do in this situation...
greg
this is what you end up with if your corner cab is deeper than adjacent cabinets.(Or at least what I end up with...)
i agree, thats the best solution and what i usually docaulking is not a piece of trim
I like the larger corner cab better. Your return is similar to my solution but finer. Looks good, craftsmanshipwise, but IMO it still speaks a a lack of planning design..
Excellence is its own reward!
Now, you all are just funnin' withthis guy, right? I mean, everybody knows SRscrews into the face of the crown is the only way to go!
Additional Details:
Regarding the crown joints...
Can anyone point me to, or email me, a reference source to show this guy? I have looked through a number of books, and am hoping to find some professional/authoratative reference.
OK, go back to the big box where you bought this stuff. They are solely responsible for your mess. They hired a decent designer and ####c r a p p y installer. Show them pictures and tell them you are not satisfied. Write letters, and if necessary sue the b a s t a r d s in small claims court. Get a local cabinet maker to testify for you.
A sixteeth of an inch gap is actually fairly huge for stain grade trim. It is really pretty bad for an inside miter joint; heck even I could get a miter to within a 32nd. If properly coped, and no big box installer would fool with that, you won't be able to slip a playing card between the mating pieces.
I'm with you on this all the way.
Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
I agree with Boris. Get the big box involved and threaten them with having the credit card company refuse payment unless done right.
You gets what you pay for. In this case, the shaft from the Big Box.
A competent, qualified installer that is paid what he is worth would never let this happen. Bottomline, he's not getting paid the going rate. Either the box has screwed him to work for less and he has an attitude, or the box has subbed the job out to a "less than professional."
a sixteenth?????????????
that guy was no cabinet installer
if you like i will go back to the job i just finished today and shoot some pics of crown installation for your case, let me knowcaulking is not a piece of trim
Do the pictures, but I think you need to show me in person if you can do that good of an installation. My cabinets should be ready to install in about 10 days.You can have one day off to sightsee and go to the beach.........................................................LOL. your quote makes me laugh!"I am not young enough to know everything."
- Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)
id be glad to you'll have to wait until november!! my first open weekcaulking is not a piece of trim
sorry another comment, this regarding"big boxes"
i do subcontract work for "Home Hardware" a large retail chain in Canada as a kitchen installer
and the negative connotation of a subcontractor does not apply alwayscaulking is not a piece of trim
Hate to say it but I saw this train wreck way before it happened, that's why I asked the questions.
Like the others said, go back to big box it's not your problem. If it's the big orange box call that homer guy and give him the riot act. You might get it for free, but then again you get what you pay for.
In the early days I'd install for anyone but learned quick to stay away from retailers that sell things other then just kitchens. The straw that broke my back was when the designer had a ref. cabinet 18" into a sliding glass door. To date that customer has had American Woodmark replace every cabinet door and drawer front 4 times. The customer will never darken the retailers door again but became a very good customer for me.
____________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________If you were arrested for being a quality builder would there be enough evidence to convict you?
The straw that broke my back was when the designer had a ref. cabinet 18" into a sliding glass door. To date that customer has had American Woodmark replace every cabinet door and drawer front 4 times.
Just curious, but what did the designer do? Why did the doors and drawers have to be replaced? Does it have to do with the sliding glass door situation or are these two seperate problems? Humour me....I'm curious.
I really appreciate all of your input! Everyone...
Can you guys direct me to any references (books, magazine articles, etc.) that discuss kitchen cabinet crown specifically? I have been looking, and am not finding anything specific enough to give weight to my argument. (...although I have printed out some of your responses!)
Thanks again for your time and interest!
The reason the cabinet was into the door was the designer couldn't read their own writing and didn't double check anything.
Door replacement was because of general poo quality. Had pencil sized knots missing some were filled others left as a peep hole into the cabinet. That got the cutomer really nit picking and she could fing something wrong (she didn't like) with every door.
As for crown meeting bumped up cabinets many do not have extra depth ability, in those cases we'll double up 2 x 6 on the wall and skin the sides. In my opinion any face frame cabinet getting crown should always be skinned especially if they have those tacky vinyl side.
_________________________________________________________________If you were arrested for being a quality builder would there be enough evidence to convict you?
in my market, any cabinet that has an exposed gable either has a veneered gable or an extra panel to cover an exposed gablecaulking is not a piece of trim
I think you have many issues here to deal with. Just because the "designer' has his way of thinking, doesn't mean he's(she's) right.
What is the spec. for the distance between the uppers and base cabinets?
Why no crown in laundry and only in the kitchen. Is it space requirements or to cut costs. Most jobs I do have crown or another detail on all cabinets.
Why would you want a strip naled/screwed to the top of the face frame? Most production cabinets will either line up on the top or bottom, not both. If you lflush to bottom of all frames, the unequal cabinet height will show up instantly unless he custom planes all upper edges to flush out. Do you expect the crown to line up specifically on the edge or do you want it to follow the ceiling line as much as possible. I rearly see perfect or eveb almost perfect flat/level ceilings
What about the distance between the top of the door and the bottom of the crown? Is the reveal going to be the same? In a face frame cabinet situation, unless there is an 1 1/2" or more space, the crown will look to set back. I usually have the back of the crown flush with the face of the door, which means an additional piece of molding to furr it out.
The question of nail holes in the trim really has me baffled. The standard operating procedure is to nail crown and if needed(I hate this stuff)scribe molding and toe kick skins(either 1/8", 1/4" or 3/4" thickness) The nails must be kept to a minimum and they should be filled. I have not seen any installer ever apply a top coat to the filled holes. That's why they are called installers, not finishers. Yes, I have used the packing tape method and it works great most of the time and one problem with it is in prefinished trim where the mitres are so sharp,the tape tears, not always but it does at times. I don't feel there is a problem with nailing a mitre closed and to keep it closed, but not to force it closed. Now, as to attaching bolcks to the top of the cabinets, was that material supplied by the "Box Store" of the kitchen sales firm? Or, are all installers required to supply additionl pieces on their own.
I installed a Siematic kitchen years ago and wound up making some of the filler parts needed from the cut out of the oven opening. The designer gave me $sit for, saying that I shopuld have requested the parts to be ordered so he could "charge accordingly"
Now, to address tha gaps in the trim. I have miss cut trim before and had gaps that weren't acceptable and there are ways top "strech" crown to fit by planeing tha back of the bottom reveal to make it longer. But, I have also worked on way too many jobs where the designer has not even come close to supplying sufficient amount of trim. My personal feeling is they charge for and order to put a little more money in their own pocket and they really don't care if the installer is required to make an additional trip back for one more piece of trim. Remember, the installer is paid piece work, right? The designer usually gets a bonus or no money is taken out of his commision check if he doesn't run over the "budgeted price" This still does not make poor quality right, just that it does require addressing/correction
OK, lets take it one step further. Are the cabnets nailed together, or are they screwed together? Are the cabinets screwed to the wall and are they straight, flat, plumb, level, and square? Do the reveals between cabinets line up with their respective upper cabinets and/or appliances? Are all the reveals between windows the same on each side and is their enough room on the inside corners for doors/drawers/appliances to open? Or, are the fillers so large that a wider cabinet could have been used. Are the toe kick height reveals the same on the pantry cabinets as on the base cabinets?. Does the finish have a even shade or are the stain finishes so different, you really aren't sure they are even the same wood?
None of these are the problem of the installer, but has he pointed these out to you? Probably not, but it's amazing how a designer will bash a installer to cover his own a$$
Now, that all of this is out on the table, I can install without and expesed fasteners. I can practically repair and cabinet, or finish, but Am I going to get paid for it? It's not the homeowners' responsibility to make up for this and most times the installer gets burned. But, this doesn't make it right for the installer to do a poor job. If he agrees to do the job for "x" amont then, he should do a quality job if he actually capable.
Many times, companies hire unskilled people to do the work only to "backcharge" him when it really their fault. Again, its not the customers fault, but thary are the one that suffers and their expense.
The last thing I can add is to listen to the installer and then decide who is right or wrong. He might have some good suggestions to fix his screw ups and probably for a small addional cost out of his pocket or the cabinet firm. Also try not to listen to every thing the "designer" says because he does have an agenda.
One last thing, just because you signed a contract for a kitchen, doesn't make you the professional. If they left something out or made a mistake, it not your responsibilty to pay additional fees. You paid for a kitchen in it's complete state. How are you supposed to know who many this and thats are needed to complete the project
Enough of my rambling...
How about posting some pics so we can see what's going on? Maybe there are some other possible solutions to help you get what you paid for.
Migraine,
Just read your input, thanks for the time!
Some of the points you raise seem to be primarily illustrative of the various aspects an installer faces. In this instance, to answer a few of your questions,
Laundry room has cabinets on 2 opposing walls. We chose not to include crown on these, as we consider them to be utility cabinets.
Kitchen was supposed to have crown.
Installer's drawings have a clearly indicated note on the floor plan, and handwritten on the elevation, that states "no crown on these cabinets"
Installer started in the laundry, and did one wall of cabinets with crown. We inquired about the crown, the installer reviewed his drawings and stated that his quote included crown all around. In fact, upon review of his original quote, what was then ordered by no name big box, and we paid for, was only crown in the kitchen.
Now, the job sits in limbo while we wait 3 weeks for more crown to finish the kitchen. Additionally, more crown will be needed to make the other wall of the laundry room match. This is the BIG sticking point. We would be OK with just removing the incorrect crown in the laundry. EXCEPT it was nailed through the face frame. Now it, apparently, can't be removed without a series of touch-ups to the frame, and a split in the frame. The solution being offered is to add crown to the other wall too, which we are OK with.
But we are in the middle of a huff with these guys about how things were handled. If you read my original message, I just want a quality job. As it is, a neighbor has pointed out that our valance has "tear-out" and says i's due to the guy cutting the piece with the finish side down on his miter saw. This seems to match my reading in Fine Woodworking.
And, the gapping at the crown joints, and crown to wall joints seems ridiculous.
I am tending to lean with the designer, as his arguments seem the most logical.
Thanks in advance for any heads up!
Maybe I posted this incorrectly. I am on you sider on this. You paid for a quality job, or that is what they told you and you should get a quality job. It is the responsibility of the 'Who ever the company is " to make it right. AND, not at your expense. If you need more crown, they should provide it. Along with fixing other problems that arise. Tell them to quit the finger pointing and get it done. Another poster made a great recommendation. Put a stop payment on your credit card if that is how you paid them. They are also bound by contractors' licensing laws, depending on where you live. Also, don't let them make you wait for parts, have them shipped express. If it something as small as crown, it's not that big of a deal. Just wait a week or two.
My intent was to make you aware of all the crap that goes with dealing with any kitchen firm. I have installed cabinetry, whether my own or another manufactures, and have seen everything. I also supervised 20+ installers and most of them $hit when I came in and told them to correct the problems or I would not release the job for payment. The installers' comment was "if the customer doesn't complain, why should they fix it?" My response was "you were paid to do a quality job and that's what you will do." I even had guys tell me that I didn't even know how to install. I proved them wrong. I did one job on a weekend and there was no more accusations of my compentency. Customers complaints went down about 90% with in a month or so. Even some of the other field reps didn't even know what was acceptable or not. I was also the guy who would go up to bat for an installer for not getting paid fairly, when something wasn't their fault. Many times I fixed something when they should have done it themselves. I just told them they owed me and when they were asked to something extra, there was no whining. Except for a few.
I had a friend that ordered KraftMaid cabinets from a local firn in Temecula, Ca.and the designer screwed up so much and the installer didn't read the plans, ther job was a TOTAL abortion. They fired the desiner/salesman and expected the homeowner to buy additional cabinets to complete the job and that is what they did just to get the job done. The installer refused to go back and do the installation because he wasn't going to get paid more. I finished the job for free and there was enough cabinets left over to make a banquet serving area and a home-office. Many of the origional cabinets were cut down on site and new doors were ordered to fit the new openings. They also had a deposit for solid surface with the same company and I don't think that even got that back. When finished, they put their house up for sale and moved to Hawaii .Their $7500 cabinet job turned into about $10,000
here's a pic of my last kitchen, small but plenty of details
note the 2 inch piece of crown return on the left side
there isnt space behind it for caulking
it is scribed to fit the wall
caulking is not a piece of trim
sweet- it's nice seeing others that take pride in their work-
here's a return into a bullnosed corner
and another fun shot
very nice work, as i said before screwing boxes to a wall is easy, its that 6 inch wide crown that requires a $400 saw with a $110 blade(cdn) skill and patience to do right
i spend a lot more time doing the trim than anything else because that makes the whole job a pleasure to look atcaulking is not a piece of trim
more pictures can be seen at [email protected]
caulking is not a piece of trim
Your link doesn't lead anywhere, even when I cut and paste it.
I really liked GBWoods rope work. Now KK has something to show standards to his/her installer..
Excellence is its own reward!
sorry piffin, just decided to play around with setting up a webpage and msn groups was an easy start up
i like to set up a web site for clients to view ideas and so on, not neccessarily in my market
sort of a website where kitchen guys can share ideas, brag about their work, and have a place for clients to see stuff from all over
any suggesstions guys and gals?
or is there one already out there?
our kitchen clients these days are paying up to 25000 for a kitchen(in my market) and a place like that would be greatcaulking is not a piece of trim
http://quittintime.infopop.cc/ubbthreads/categories.php?Cat=.
Excellence is its own reward!
kkjim,
View Image
Edited 7/26/2003 4:03:55 PM ET by Resurrected
Vendor should make right
The easiet most cost effecient, least headache way of fixing the problem of not enough crown to finish is getting more and leaving what is installe in placed. Depending on the cabinet and/or ceiling height nailing to the cabinet frame is completely acceptable as they do not expect to take it down. The install of crown on the laundry cabinets that do not call for it is there fault and they should pay to get more to finish the job. Think of it as getting a freebie for these cabinets to dress them up.
Most likely since the crown has alread been installed on different cabinets it cant be used to complete the correct cabinets due to nail holes, cuts etc. You will end up with a very poor quality install and the both the company you bought the kitchen from and the installer should know this.
It would make no sense for them to remove the crown already installed as they will be spending more money on labor costs they have already spent by mistake to install. Theyre also would be additional costs to do the repair work on the cabinet boxes.
If for some reason you do not want the crown in the laundry room you should tell them you want new upper cabinets and will not accept any repairs as they will never hold up or look correct.
As far as the visible nails, the installer needs to set them and then fill with the touch up kit which should be included with the kitchen. A quality install would not leave nails showing. A true quality install would not be using anything more than a 23 gauge pin nailer with glue for moulding install, as the nails dissapear.
Before we get too far along on this, that original post is from 2003.