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Leaking Shower Pan

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Leaking Shower Pan (post #191866)

Zarp on Fri, 07/30/2010 - 10:18
in

Hi..I'm new here,have a lot of construction exp and at present not enough money to replace a leaking, old lead shower pan under my tiled shower floor. Can I instead of ripping up everything and replacing the pan,can I lay a slab of some sort of material : cement i.e. right over the existing tile floor and use the existing drain.?..I know it sounds mickey mouse but if there's a way to do something along that line that I can do myself. I can still use the shower until I can afford to get it done right or maybe replace the whole thing with an acrylic unit. I've temporarily been using six rubber mats!! (with a hole cut out for the drain)

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You could probably adhere (post #191866, reply #1 of 20)

by DanH in reply to Zarp [original] on Fri, 07/30/2010 - 11:16

You could probably adhere some of the rubber membrane material to the existing floor (and maybe put some shower mats over it to avoid the ick feeling on your feet and protect the membrane a bit).  Getting a good seal at the drain is the trick -- would take some thought.  Might be good for a year or two, depending on the use and how bad things are to start with.

You could also coat the entire floor with epoxy paint or some such, though that would fail quickly if there's any "give" to the floor.

(Of course the real tileies here will tell you to rip it out and do it right, but sometimes that's just not an option.)


This country will not be a permanently good place for any of us to live in unless we make it a reasonably good place for all of us to live in.  --Theodore Roosevelt

Leaking shower pan (post #191866, reply #2 of 20)

by Zarp in reply to DanH [original] on Fri, 07/30/2010 - 11:21

Thanks...what is the rubber membrane called..in order to to buy it?

Zarp. (post #191866, reply #3 of 20)

by calvin in reply to Zarp [original] on Fri, 07/30/2010 - 13:14

Your "pan" goes up the sidewalls maybe 6-8 inches.  While it is possible the leak emanates from the drain area or just around it-it may also be getting under the base and working  around on below the tile and finding a way out of the pan.  Perhaps clogged weep holes in the drain itself are contributing to the problem.

A rubber membrane if you managed to seal it up around the perimeter say 8" above the floor (with a sealed termination strip) and then too down into the drain itself would probably work.  How you are going to do that I don't know.  All the folds etc will be a breeding ground for all sorts of funk.

The epoxy idea sealing the floor, the corners and some of the side walls sounds better.

Perhaps Red Guard (Custom) would work.  Be butt ugly but as far as a waterproofing sealer "under" tile-it does good.

Applying any coating means you clean/etch/whatever the surface.

Back to the epoxy coating-XIM makes a great primer for tile.  Done right that stuff sticks GOOD.  Any paint applied over it (make sure it's compatible) sticks too.

It would give you the nicest looking job.

Will it waterproof it?  beats me, but it might be worth the study.

A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.

Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.


http://www.quittintime.com/

 

Leaking shower pan (post #191866, reply #5 of 20)

by Zarp in reply to calvin [original] on Sat, 07/31/2010 - 15:24

If I decide to start tearing this tile shower floor up, what will I find under the tile?..a layer of cement and then the lead pan and then the flooring? Can I do this with a small sledge and chisels or do I need a small jackhammer? House was built in '72. I'm not worried about the time factor and would prefer to just bang away at the floor if I can do it that way. Thanks.

Probably (post #191866, reply #6 of 20)

by calvin in reply to Zarp [original] on Sun, 08/01/2010 - 04:13

a morter base-with wire-funky smelly gunk-pan, perhaps metal.

Breaking it up isn't easy-till you get an area remove.  Then you break it out to that open area.  The packed morter and tile are pretty hard and strong when confined.  Get it started and it should get easier.  You can get a bar under it and pry while bashing the [JOBSITE WORD] out of it.  A demo hammer (drill) helps to chip it out and open it up.

Eye protection a must.

A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.

Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.


http://www.quittintime.com/

 

Leaking Shower pan (post #191866, reply #7 of 20)

by Zarp in reply to calvin [original] on Sun, 08/01/2010 - 07:27

Thank you Calvin. Am I going to have to cut back the wallboard in order to get the pan out?  And then replace the cut section over the new pan in order to replace the removed line(s) of tile?

If you're going to tear out (post #191866, reply #10 of 20)

by DanH in reply to Zarp [original] on Sun, 08/01/2010 - 08:27

If you're going to tear out the pan do it right and tear out all the tile.  You can line the walls while you're at it and have a pretty reliable job.  Trying to save the wall tile is asking for trouble.


This country will not be a permanently good place for any of us to live in unless we make it a reasonably good place for all of us to live in.  --Theodore Roosevelt

Should be noted that 1972 was (post #191866, reply #11 of 20)

by DanH in reply to Zarp [original] on Sun, 08/01/2010 - 08:32

Should be noted that 1972 was just about the low ebb in tile job quality.  The new membrane products were not quite invented yet, and contractors were taking shortcuts around the old practices.   (However, the fact that the shower didn't need to be replaced 20 years ago suggests that the job was a little better than averagef.)

"Typical" construction for the era would be a mud bed with a sort of tar over it for waterproofing -- no lead/copper.  And "moisture resistant" drywall on the walls (this was before cement board was common).


This country will not be a permanently good place for any of us to live in unless we make it a reasonably good place for all of us to live in.  --Theodore Roosevelt

I haven't personally done (post #191866, reply #4 of 20)

by DanH in reply to Zarp [original] on Sat, 07/31/2010 - 09:42

I haven't personally done shower tiling in a coons age.  Back in the day it was a fairly thick rubber membrane -- about as thick as innertube rubber.  Don't know what options are available now.


This country will not be a permanently good place for any of us to live in unless we make it a reasonably good place for all of us to live in.  --Theodore Roosevelt

    (post #191866, reply #8 of 20)

by Zarp in reply to DanH [original] on Sun, 08/01/2010 - 08:02

   

Well said! (post #191866, reply #9 of 20)

by DanH in reply to Zarp [original] on Sun, 08/01/2010 - 08:25

Well said!


This country will not be a permanently good place for any of us to live in unless we make it a reasonably good place for all of us to live in.  --Theodore Roosevelt

Leaking Shower pan (post #191866, reply #12 of 20)

by Zarp in reply to DanH [original] on Sun, 08/01/2010 - 09:30

Thanks Dan. Wall tile job is good. I  figured I'd get by knocking off the bottom two lines of 4X4 tile and then would I have to cut through the wallboard to free the flange of the old lead pan? If so I'd be 8" to 10" up the framing and would be able to nail a new piece over the flange of the new pan and re-tile that section. Do I have that right?

There's no telling what (post #191866, reply #13 of 20)

by DanH in reply to Zarp [original] on Sun, 08/01/2010 - 16:52

There's no telling what you'll find.  Hopefully not "wallboard".


This country will not be a permanently good place for any of us to live in unless we make it a reasonably good place for all of us to live in.  --Theodore Roosevelt

Leaking Shower pan (post #191866, reply #14 of 20)

by Zarp in reply to DanH [original] on Sun, 08/01/2010 - 17:59

"Wallboard" meaning  Sheetrock... didn't they have that in '72?

If you have that behind the (post #191866, reply #15 of 20)

by DanH in reply to Zarp [original] on Sun, 08/01/2010 - 18:00

If you have that behind the tile it won't be worth much.


This country will not be a permanently good place for any of us to live in unless we make it a reasonably good place for all of us to live in.  --Theodore Roosevelt

If it was done right in 72 (post #191866, reply #16 of 20)

by DanH in reply to Zarp [original] on Sun, 08/01/2010 - 18:26

If it was done right in 72 what you have is expanded metal lath with a mud layer over that and the tile attached to the mud with thinset.  Different installers used different stuff behind the metal lath -- sometimes open studs, sometimes something more solid.  The only problem with this setup is that it's damn hard to just remove a few tile without breaking out the whole thing (though you might have some hope with a Multimaster).


This country will not be a permanently good place for any of us to live in unless we make it a reasonably good place for all of us to live in.  --Theodore Roosevelt

Leaking Shower pan (post #191866, reply #17 of 20)

by Zarp in reply to DanH [original] on Wed, 08/04/2010 - 09:23

Well that gives me pause..I was expecting to find drywall behind the tile but if it's metal lath with mud (cement?) over it, I can see why trying to get that away from the pan flange without breaking a lot of tile might be tricky.

If it were drywall back there (post #191866, reply #18 of 20)

by DanH in reply to Zarp [original] on Wed, 08/04/2010 - 20:42

If it were drywall back there you would have redone the shower about 1985, assuming it gets daily use.


This country will not be a permanently good place for any of us to live in unless we make it a reasonably good place for all of us to live in.  --Theodore Roosevelt

guess I'm lucky (post #191866, reply #19 of 20)

by bd in reply to DanH [original] on Thu, 08/05/2010 - 10:24

 We built our house in 78-79. Don't know for sure what's behind the tile. Probably plain old sheetrock. I know what they put up wasn't a different color like green board is now. Definitely wasn't durock  or plywood.  Bathroom lasted almost exactly 30 years. Never sealed the grout, or re-grouted, but did try to keep it caulked. Lasted until about March of this year when I noticed some loose tiles. Two people using, at least, daily.

Leaking Shower pan (post #191866, reply #20 of 20)

by Zarp in reply to bd [original] on Fri, 08/06/2010 - 10:26

Come to think about it, I don't know if the shower has been redone since '72 when this house was built. I bought it in '99 and assumed it was the original tile but maybe not. I guess I'll find out soon when I start beating on it next week. If I can get the tile floor and lead pan(if that's what it is) out. and wind up with it clean down to the wood floor, I'd call in a plumber (hard to get out here) and figure out the next step.