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Looking for Hucks 4x4 roof cuttin lesson

MattSwanger's picture

im looking for that article and cant for the life of me find it,  i wanted to read it and try to work it out in my own hands/head. 


anyone have a link or a name of the article?


Woods favorite carpenter


 

Woods favorite carpenter

(post #108898, reply #60 of 322)

Huck,


 


I think Joe and Blue are saying that you are not including all the bevels and angles in the labeled illustration.  It might require another view to the face not shown. 


 


I would just use the block itself to mark the hips cut line with the fascia miter bevel.


 

(post #108898, reply #61 of 322)

Why would you do that when the angles are not the same. . . . . . The only angle that's the same for both is the saw bevel angle.

(post #108898, reply #66 of 322)

flush hip at blue, mark red


 


(post #108898, reply #67 of 322)

You just highlighted the "hip seat cut angle" but in this model it's the hip plumb cut. What angle are you going to use to mark the hip miter?

(post #108898, reply #68 of 322)

OK,  now I feel like a bear dancing with a toad in a pond.


 


What do you mean I just highlighted the hip seat cut angle?  sheeeeesh!


 


Miter at the ridge?  The original plumb line (with the block held flush at the shoulder as shown).

(post #108898, reply #69 of 322)

(post #108898, reply #80 of 322)

Thanks for that tidbit of information Mr Jalp. I think I now can ask a somewhat intelligent question.

http://forums.taunton.com/n/docs/docDownload.aspx?guid=2EB35D1D-AE25-45AD-A086-ADBCFC122157&webtag=tp-breaktime

Using the model that you started, and I added to; can you help me with the ratios? I'm trying to figure out how I would derive the numbers, mathmatically, with the framing square for this application.

If my memory serves me correctly, the green line will be 12, the purple line is 13.

Then, please explain where the miter would be on this. Could you draw another colored line for the miter?

Is anybody out there? 

(post #108898, reply #82 of 322)

No. 


 


Do you mean 12 on 13 doesn't work for you?


 


Edited 9/21/2009 10:01 am ET by MrJalapeno

(post #108898, reply #83 of 322)

(post #108898, reply #84 of 322)

Huck,

In regards to the video, what did you use to cut that corner with. You had to have used either a 10" or 16" circular saw, a sawsall a hand saw or a bandsaw. Did I cover all the possibilities? ;-) I didn't think a standard 7-1/4" or 8" saw would make the cut.

(post #108898, reply #86 of 322)

I was wondering the same thing. I know I'd start whacking it with my modified (safer) power saw but the accuracy of the deep cut seemed dubious.

Is anybody out there? 

(post #108898, reply #87 of 322)

I’m a little apprehensive to keep posting due to the chaffing going on.  There is no reason to be uncivil here.


 


But I have accuracy concerns too.  To cut model blocks the size of Huck’s example proficiently would be a little tricky.  Cut them any smaller and they may lose their effectiveness.


 


The only three angles I find necessarily complimentary to some roof cutting solutions are the square hung fascia miters and bevels, and the hip’s tail miter angle cut.  The rest of it is common knowledge for any moderately experienced roof cutter.  And there are reference books available with data charts for common regular pitch roofs too.


 


Introduce irregulars to the mix and …?


 


Edited 9/21/2009 10:56 am ET by MrJalapeno

(post #108898, reply #91 of 322)

I’m a little apprehensive to keep posting due to the chaffing going on.  There is no reason to be uncivil here.


 You have the option to post or not, to be civil or not.  Its all up to you.


But I have accuracy concerns too.  To cut model blocks the size of Huck’s example proficiently would be a little tricky.  Cut them any smaller and they may lose their effectiveness.


It was easy for me, but I have a circular saw that makes a 5" cut in one pass.  There are other tools that would make that cut accurately.  I should have added a disclaimer: this method is not for those who are unable to make an accurate cut on a piece of wood with anything other than a 7" circular saw.


The only three angles I find necessarily complimentary to some roof cutting solutions are the square hung fascia miters and bevels, and the hip’s tail miter angle cut.  The rest of it is common knowledge for any moderately experienced roof cutter.  And there are reference books available with data charts for common regular pitch roofs too.


If this method doesn't click for you, don't use it.  I put it out there for those who might like it.  It worked great for me, but I am a professional trained in the use of power tools. 


Introduce irregulars to the mix and …?


The angles in a regular hip are different from those in an irregular hip.  The methods used for finding the angles in a regular hip are different from the methods used for finding the angles in an irregular hip, because an irregular hip does not lie at 45 degrees to the ridge/commons in plan view, like a regular hip does.  I could use this method to find those angles too, but it likely wouldn't benefit you, so I won't bother showing it - although the first half is laid out earlier in the thread.


(post #108898, reply #90 of 322)

In regards to the video, what did you use to cut that corner with.

IMG_6261

(post #108898, reply #92 of 322)

Huck,

The angle I measured was off of the 5/12 model you posted. Just as a thought, why would you post a model with a 5/12 roof and then do a video with a 6/12 roof? Seems like it would make it a bit hard to "follow along."

None the less, if you are saying that the angle you have in the video is "around" 45-48° for the saw bevel, well that's not correct. It's more like 39°.

I already explained what the hip miter was. Lastly this isn't about "methods", it's about getting the information and the correct information at that.

 


Edited 9/21/2009 11:26 am ET by Joe

(post #108898, reply #93 of 322)

The angle I measured was off of the 5/12 model you posted. Just as a thought, why would you post a model with a 5/12 roof and then do a video with a 6/12 roof? Seems like it would make it a bit hard to "follow along."


Well, I already had a 5:12 model, but the real point is to understand that the methods work regardless of the pitch.  My gut tells me that you'd be no more amenable to this method regardless, so I'm not too worried about that!  =)


None the less, if you are saying that the angle you have in the video is "around" 45-48° for the saw bevel, well that's not correct. It's more like 39°.


Well whaddya know, you're right there!  If I use the jig as intended when I developed it, and set it on my saw base plate to adjust the angle, it comes out very close to 39 degrees, as you can see in the photo below.  The problem arose in trying to communicate the angle, but the model's angle is accurate. 


That's the beauty of the jig vs. book explanations, sometimes the explanations get muddled in communication/application, but the jig is a 3-D model you can hold in your hand, set against the saw blade, and double check on the jobsite!



I already explained what the hip miter was.


You did?  Musta missed it!  What is it? 


Lastly this isn't about "methods", it's about getting the information and the correct information at that.


Well, you're partially right.  It is about methods - well, one method so far (but hey, others are welcome!), for "getting the information, and the correct information at that" - so I guess I gotta say,  You're catching on! 



Edited 9/21/2009 12:34 pm by Huck

(post #108898, reply #85 of 322)

Fair enough.

Is anybody out there? 

(post #108898, reply #62 of 322)

Thank you Mr Jap.

Is anybody out there? 

(post #108898, reply #71 of 322)

I think Joe and Blue are saying that you are not including all the bevels and angles in the labeled illustration.  It might require another view to the face not shown.  I would just use the block itself to mark the hips cut line with the fascia miter bevel.


"Tough tittie" said the kitty, "but the milk's still good."   The jig may not be labelled to everyone's satisfaction, but all the angles are there.  If my labeling isn't clear to Joe and Blue, I ain't gonna worry about it.  I doubt Blue will cut another roof in this lifetime, and Joe is happy with his own methods.


I know you get it, and others have too.  Its a tool that I developed and which I'm putting out there for those who want to use it.  Its not a new freakin' religion.



Edited 9/21/2009 4:04 am by Huck

(post #108898, reply #74 of 322)

Huck,


 


I agree, it's good enough for me.  It’s a molehill. 


 


If someone is "obtuse" about it, maybe they’d get the point better if they just turned that thing over and sat on it.  =)


 

(post #108898, reply #78 of 322)

Now there's a visual for ya, you, sitting on the top of my hat.  Lol

(post #108898, reply #79 of 322)

If that were the case you'd be in the toilet lol.

Now before this descends into the depths of depravity, do you have anything useful to add other than rhetoric? How about a method using Huck's model to find those two angles? Or is that something that's out of your scope?


Edited 9/21/2009 9:43 am ET by Joe

(post #108898, reply #81 of 322)

“…depths of depravity…”


 


That is a hat of a different color,  fit you like a glove.

(post #108898, reply #63 of 322)

So, where are the labels that say "hip bevel"?

Is anybody out there? 

(post #108898, reply #72 of 322)

So, where are the labels that say "hip bevel"?   I don't see "rake/fascia" miter either.  I'm not trying to bust anyones bells, I just am saying that if there were a few more labels, the thing would make more sense to more people.


Not sure what hip bevel is - the backing angle?  The backing angle is on top of the beveled hip.  I showed where the hip is.  Do you need me to tell you the backing angle is along the top edge?  I showed where the fascia miters at the corner.  Do I have to say that's where the compound miter angle is?  Or could a guy who's framed a few roofs figure that out? 


I labelled the parts.  I drew a diagram showing how the model relates to an actual roof.  Lets just say the rest is a trade secret I can't let out, and call it good.


(post #108898, reply #73 of 322)

OK, here's the video version.  If you can't figure it out, then don't use it.  If you have a hip roof to cut, and this helps, great.  It helped me tremendously when I was cutting hip roofs a lot.  Its original, my own jig, and if it don't make sense then I guess I can't blame anyone but myself, because it makes perfect good sense to me!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR9FlV2JXKI

bakersfieldremodel.com


Edited 9/21/2009 4:11 am by Huck

(post #108898, reply #77 of 322)

Sorry that I have offended you.

Is anybody out there? 

(post #108898, reply #89 of 322)

Sorry that I have offended you.


Jim - you and Joe have your own methods, and you prefer them.  That's fine.  I'm presenting a method I use to find all the angles on a hip roof with a square cut fascia.  If you understand the model, then you'll understand where the angles can be found.


If you have a better method, great.  I'd love for you and Joe to post your methods here.  There are more ways than one to skin a cat, as Matt has pointed out.  Mine is just one method, it has been field tested, and works.  Please feel free to share others, and ignore mine, if it doesn't click for you.


(post #108898, reply #94 of 322)

Actually Huck, I don't have any methods for finding and cutting a square cut fascia. I've already stated that I can only vaguely remember doing one or two of them a couple decades ago.

I have two motivations for posting in here. 1)I'm trying to understand it. 2)You mentioned early on; I;m paraphrasing..."a lot of people have a hard time understanding this".

Silly me...I thought this was a discussion forum. So, when I discuss your "tool", you get angry and upset with me?!!! Am I to assume that you only want to discuss this with people who "get it"?

Sorry for raining on your parade.

Is anybody out there?