non standard closet door construction technique
Thanks for taking a look at my project.
I am building four overlay closet doors that will have a flat frame and panel appearance, painted. The panel will be corrugated galvanized metal roofing/siding. An industrial/repurposed vibe; the tin is weathered. There will be two intermediate rails (probably an overlay, not true structural rails) deviding the metal into what will look like three separate panels. The metal has a 1/2 inch rib height.
I am looking for tips on frame material to use and construction techniques. I have lots of biscutits and pocket screws.
One method that first comes to my mind is a 2 ply door frame of 1/2 inch thick quality MDF from my hardwood guys. Use half lap corners and biscuit the single ply intermediate rails. The inside ply could be ripped narrower than the outer ply to create a rabbet for the tin to rest in.
Each door is about 90″ x 20″. I plan on using four standard overlay cabinet door hinges on each door. The bottom rail will be around 4″ wide, the top,intermediate rails, and stiles be around 2 1/2 inches wide. Will the doors need to rely on the panels for strength or can they just be fastened in with minimal mechanical effort? The doors from the outside will look like they are 1″ thick. is that too chunky? It’s a large wardrobe/armoire 8′ high x 8′ wide. Would 3/4″ pine or poplar work for the door frames?
Thanks all.
Replies
The doors don't necessarily need the panels for support but the minimal widths of rail & stile that you specify are too slight, I think, to hold against this heavy composite. I'm not sure how to tell you to modify your design because I'm having a hard time interrpreting your description. Some drawings would help.
One inch thick seems visually chunky to me. That's OK if it's the look you want but since you asked, you probably don't want the heavy appearance. Perhaps modify the design to use inset doors. Presto! The thickness is "hidden."
MDF only adds to the weight and adds little corresponding structural support. Plywood will serve you better. Why not a hardwood frame?
Photo Idea
photos are always a good idea, searching this out helped me out
any input is still greatly appreciated
The first photo is a actually a pretty good representation of the project but with metal panels.
Thanks
Interesting idea. If I were making these doors, then I would probably choose Windsor One 5/4" stock (actual thickness 1-1/16" for the rails and stiles. This material is finger jointed very precisely and will tend to stay flat and straight over the lengths you'll be working with. I would suggest, however, going wider on the rail and stile widths. They seem wider in the photos you show, will give you more frame racking strength, and look better with the corrugated metal (IMO). Personally I would shoot for 5" for top, 7.5" for bottom, and 4.5" for intermediate lock rails. I would definitely split the metal panels into three separate sections due to strength factor.
I would probably use my domino XL to make loose mortise and tenon joints with 10 MM dominos cut at least 2" deep on the zero clearance setting for strength. You'll have to register closely for this and play around with some cuts a bit wider to allow for some tolerance to fit, but it will be stronger. I'd use two at each joint if possible for all joints; atleast 2 at the bottom rail.
Lastly, I'd just use a stepped rabbet (routed after assembly) on the backside to house the metal panel and then a wood stop. I would shoot for 1/4" reveal from the high point of metal to face of door on front. One the backside, just square off the corners of the routes. The double step will leave room for about 1/4” thick stops on backside. Inset or overlay hinging is your choice. Personally, I don't see 4 marching overlays looking bad at all for doors this tall. Plus, inset reveals are going to be more challenging and not sure it's worth sweating the tolerance factor.
Nice, I totally blanked out on the PP finger joint material, but I agree this would be a good product to use. We don't have WindsorOne here but there is a close substitute in 3/4 and 5/4. I do not have a domino but I plan on double rows of biscuits and pluged pocket holes on the back side. I also appreciate your thoughts on the dimensions of the stiles and rails, great call.
Thank you.
Hinges
Source your hinges before you start dimensioning/constructing the doors. The door dimensions will be more dependent on the hinges than the other way around.
Thanks, for sure a good idea. Have those decided on and in hand before I start.
Real or appears to be real
Do you want real Frame & panel door sor just the appearance of them?
I'd think about building them up from a sheet of ply, (MDF or some good stable core ply if you cn find any). On the MDF you can lay on your rails and the corrugated panels. the py wil deaden some sound the metal wil amplify.
What is the depth of the corrugated?
Real or appears to be real
Do you want real Frame & panel door sor just the appearance of them?
I'd think about building them up from a sheet of ply, (MDF or some good stable core ply if you cn find any). On the MDF you can lay on your rails and the corrugated panels. the py wil deaden some sound the metal wil amplify.
What is the depth of the corrugated?
I thought I had a plan with the pre primed finger joint material but sorting through it it became apparent that it was not so good (bow/crook).
The appearance of frame and panel is perfectly fine for this project. The tin has a 1/2 inch profile (rib height)
There is some decent 5/4 poplar here at 3.09, random widths and lengths, fair amount of waste.
The MDF is piquing my interest today as the doors will be painted anyway.
3/4 light weight is 43.62, reg wt is 31.45
1/2 light weight is 33.84, reg wt is 24.43
those are prices, sorry I left out the $ sign
panels and...
Rereading your OP. The RP doors of old didn't rely on the panels for strength, the strenght in the door came form the M&T joints betweent he stiles and rails. The panel was jsut there to fill the void and look nice. On solid wood panels you want them to float to allow for seasonal movement that wouldn't make the door jam (or explode). If using a plywood panel, you can cheat a bit and glue and pin it since ply is stable.
The 1/2 MDF ought to work for you and MDF will stay flat. If you can get cabinet grade veneer MDF I think you'll be better off. With the 1/2" and the stiles and rails applied you'll have enough thickness in the doors for cup hinges. Check their weight load and add hinges as necessary, I'd think you'd need at least 4 but guessing closer to 6. A good and straight janb to attach them to is necessary. You may want think of the durability of cab hinges on closet doors, esp if you have kids.
I'd rethink your rail & stile dimensions. Since the R&S was the structure of the door traditionally they were wider. You'll need some visual mass towards the bottom to give it some weight. The photo has 8' bottom rails, 6" top rail (can be reduced to about 4" I'd think but balance it against the lock rail) and the lock rail at 5" Hinge stiles are at 4 and the meeting siles at 2.
the overlay parts are 3/4"
I'd think of MDF for the overlay parts as well, it'll help everything stay flat.
I can't thank you all enough, some really great info here. I appreciate everyone for taking the time to give their thoughts.
Thanks again all.
I don't work very fast but I sure am slow.