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old man and concrete work

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old man and concrete work (post #205641)

junkhound on Wed, 01/18/2012 - 18:03
in

Have always done my own concrete.

Getting to old to enjoy it anymore, was trying to find a concrete contractor on-line in WA for a 30 yard foundation for a shop/alternate dwelling unit at son's house - 160 ft from the road, so pumper, etc. would be needed.

Have zero experience trying to find a contractor, pretty much a strikeout on the web today, seems it must be an 'old boy network' more than any consumer contact outlets. May have to make some phone calls, but hate to take someones time just trying to find a price to compare. (you guys dont count<G>)

So, 1st question: how to find, keywords to look for other than foundation, concrete pumping, etc??

2nd set of questions if I resort to DIY.

a. 160 ft seems a long distance, may get pretty pricy for that size pumper for 30 yards, any estimates of what to expect for the pumper?

b. thought to transport from truck to forms with 1 yard loader bucket and dump, with a good vibrator on hand, as realize even 160 ft transport in a tractor bucket and a 6 foot free drop is likely to result in segragation - any hints on that regards?

c. I have an old 250 gal oil tank and some old transmissions and blig old gears, have thought to build a truck mounted turning tub just to transport a yard at a time from truck to forms, anyone done this successfully?

d. last resort, as I can back my 1T dump up to a 3 cuft mixer, is to hand mix 30 yards!! Have not doen that for a few decades, and would not look forward to it, which is why I'd entertain the notion of <gasp> actually hiring somebody else for the whole concrete foundation job.

... too bad gabe is not still around, he'd likely ream me a new one for being lazy ? 

-A +A

a long time ago (post #205641, reply #1 of 20)

by calvin in reply to junkhound [original] on Wed, 01/18/2012 - 18:17

I poured concrete.

Now I don't.

 

Time ages people and talent isn't universal.

I know who to call, and who to recommend.

 

However, they are getting older as well.

 

There, another non answer on a worthless forum.

A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.

Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.


http://www.quittintime.com/

 

Write this down (post #205641, reply #6 of 20)

by DaveRicheson in reply to calvin [original] on Fri, 01/20/2012 - 10:00

Pay attention to the young bucks working on those old crews you have used over the years. They will be the one you need to know in the future.

One of the outfits I use is now being run by a grandson of the fellow that started the business. I've also had some of the old guys that are cutting back or retireing refer me to former employees that are starting out on thier own.

A lot of concrete work will make you old,.....real quick.

Dave, (post #205641, reply #7 of 20)

by calvin in reply to DaveRicheson [original] on Fri, 01/20/2012 - 15:06

A small problem I have is that most of these subs I've used for the last 20 yrs are the same "young guys" that I worked with in the past.  Just like lumberyards, they start to retire.   Some do have a couple they could refer, and luckily I guess, they're near 40.

A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.

Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.


http://www.quittintime.com/

 

  Agreed...   "T (post #205641, reply #20 of 20)

by buildingangel in reply to calvin [original] on Mon, 02/06/2012 - 00:28

 

Agreed...

 

"Time ages people and talent isn't universal.

I know who to call, and who to recommend. "

 

Very Well said

 

I'm surprised you don't build (post #205641, reply #2 of 20)

by DanH in reply to junkhound [original] on Wed, 01/18/2012 - 18:19

I'm surprised you don't build your own pumper out  of that old surplus Forrest Service fire pump and those irrigation pipes in the far shed.


We are like tenant farmers chopping down the fence around our house for fuel when we should be using Nature's inexhaustible sources of energy -- sun, wind and tide. ... I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that. --Thomas Edison

Did you look here: (post #205641, reply #3 of 20)

by DanH in reply to junkhound [original] on Wed, 01/18/2012 - 18:30

Did you look here: http://www.concretepumpers.com/cgi-bin/h...


We are like tenant farmers chopping down the fence around our house for fuel when we should be using Nature's inexhaustible sources of energy -- sun, wind and tide. ... I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that. --Thomas Edison

Contact your local ready mix (post #205641, reply #4 of 20)

by Hammer1 in reply to junkhound [original] on Wed, 01/18/2012 - 21:00

Contact your local ready mix company.

Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

Concrete pumps are a dime a (post #205641, reply #5 of 20)

by gfretwell in reply to junkhound [original] on Wed, 01/18/2012 - 21:55

Concrete pumps are a dime a dozen in Florida. It probably has to do with the type of construction we do here (poureed tie beams on top of walls)

Your redimix guy can usually give you some names. The pump guy usually calls in the concrete so everything is there at the same time.

Hello again, a.  I do (post #205641, reply #8 of 20)

by VaTom in reply to junkhound [original] on Sun, 01/29/2012 - 07:35

Hello again,

a.  I do anything possible to avoid pumping, it's always inferior no matter what anyone says or which pumper I've hired.  Last time the guy in charge of a fleet of pumpers came out to supervise, same crappy product when we stripped the forms.  Not a structural problem, but to get an ugly product after spending that much...

b. Your JD 440 will be pretty slow.  If you use a (preferably larger) rubber tire loader it'll go much faster.  I've poured 150 yds out of a loader bucket, the product is as good as a chute pour.  You know the importance of low slump, do it.  Dropping mud that far is not a problem.  I get a good flow under wide windows with no noticeable segregation, UNLESS I had to pump.  That's why I bought the LinkBelt, to pick up concrete buckets.

I've got no advice on the age issue gramps, but I gave up on concrete subs a long time ago.  You've got a couple of years on me but I'm thinking about my entire driveway, 450 yds of concrete.  I'd need to hire a couple of young(er) guys, and make sure my vibratory screed was working.  When I first started pouring concrete here I priced the materials, came out that I could save 20% if bought in bulk and I mixed it.  I sure like readymix. 

What's the problem with building a temporary truck road to the site?  If you really want a sub, forget the internet, ask a GC there whose work you respect for a referral.  You knew that.  I've got a very experienced concrete friend in Oregon, but travel expense wouldn't be attractive.  Good luck. 

Still playing in mud, PAHS projects in S. Carolina, Georgia, and two (so far) in France.  More coming.

 

PAHS works.  Bury it.

Why is pumped conctete (post #205641, reply #9 of 20)

by gfretwell in reply to VaTom [original] on Sun, 01/29/2012 - 08:49

Why is pumped conctete inferior? What did you order? Did you properly consolidate it?

 

This doesn't look that horrible does it?

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/addition...

Why? Good question. (post #205641, reply #10 of 20)

by VaTom in reply to gfretwell [original] on Sun, 01/29/2012 - 16:03

I've been told here before that pumped concrete leaves the same wall.  Not my experience, ever.  I've used a variety of pumps from several companies, always similar results.   Major problem is under windows. 

Last time I got the guy running a statewide pumping outfit to supervise, starting with dealing with the readymix folks.  They like each other.  I even did something I never do: let him vibrate.  Figured I'd learn what I'd done wrong in the past.  He was certain of that, told me that his pumped walls would be at least as smooth as the others when I stripped.  Did not happen.  Worst of course under the windows where there were large voids with aggregate separation.  So bad I had to form and re-pour the voids.  The client wanted to know what the hell happened.  Then apopogized.

I'd argued to use my crane, which wasn't large enough to reach across the 40' clear span.  No problem, leave out the corner and park the crane inside.  Pour the corner last.  Nope, I was told to bring in a pump.  Mistake, from both our perspectives.  He could clearly see which parts were pumped.

No idea if Art would have a similar experience but I'm pretty sure he'd be upset if he did.  Pouring from a loader bucket, if you don't have a crane, works fine.  I've done 35 yards with a crawler loader like his, worked well, including under very wide windows. 

The pumped house turned out fine, once the concrete was patched.  Owner is now commuting 80 miles each way, won't give up the house.  That much better than his previous SIPs.  I told him there were GCs perfectly capable near his work, but he likes what he's got, no maintenance and tiny utility bills.  He's planning for retirement.  

PAHS works.  Bury it.

So the concrete was not properly consolidated? (post #205641, reply #12 of 20)

by gfretwell in reply to VaTom [original] on Mon, 01/30/2012 - 10:08

That is more of an operator error than a problem with pumped concrete. If you have a complex pour you need to take your time. Pour it up to a few inches above the wintow sills, consolidate that, then continue up to the next obstruction.

Good to see you again (post #205641, reply #13 of 20)

by BossHog in reply to VaTom [original] on Mon, 01/30/2012 - 18:03

Good to see you again Tom.Glad ya stopped in.

 

I thyink the link Art was trying to post was: http://forums.delphiforums.com/breaktime...

 

Have not seen you post for (post #205641, reply #11 of 20)

by junkhound in reply to junkhound [original] on Sun, 01/29/2012 - 21:47

Have not seen you post for awhile Tom.  Mostly I'm over at 'classic' myself.  http://forums.delphiforums.com

In addition to the JD440 loader and dozer, I now also have a Ford 4500 loader/backhoe, which will go a lot faster although it has a slightly smaller bucket that will only fill/carry to about 3/4 yard at 5 ft high.  Any suggestions to maximize carry/fill capability other than tack welding on some sheet steel?

 

Having thought the issue through, and gotten one quote for about $12K for contracting out for 30 yards with a pumper, decided to re-design the foundation and skip having a 5 ft crawl space with storage and concrete floor. 

Reduced the concrete needed from about 30 yards to < 9 total.  Less than 3 yards for the footings, so can do those by hand in a couple of days (I retired last month, so have the time, 3 cu ft mixer, shovel reclaim out of the back of the 4WD dump truck at an angle, etc.) and then do the other 6 or so yards out of redimix truck with the Ford 4500 bucket.  Dropped the crawl space to the minimum 18" height in places.

Will build an additional 199 sq ft building (no permit needed) for the storage that was planned for the high 'crawl space'. The 199 sq ft bldg will be about $300 (mostly for roofing) using all surplus 'stashed' materials.  So the redesign difference ($12K vs about $1.2k, incl rebar, etc)  is enough to buy another backhoe or an excavator  -  for my son/grandsons <G> 

No idea why everything typed in bold.....

My registration was rejected (post #205641, reply #14 of 20)

by VaTom in reply to junkhound [original] on Mon, 01/30/2012 - 19:12

My registration was rejected there, no idea why.  Was a little surprised Taunton remembered me, though they'd asked about my absence.  Heard from several of the old gang after the fires, tornadoes, and earthquakes.  Gets folks thinking about more durable houses like mine.  We weren't far from the epicenter, no damage.  Probably you know why.

More load desired = larger bucket.  Remember Bertha with her 3 yd bucket?  Still popular around here.  She brings in $85/hr, for a $6k tractor.  My considerably larger than 440 crawler went to live in Peru.  Surprised me, $17k for the container trip there.  Must be a serious shortage of antique Cats.  I offered to operate her if they'd buy me a plane ticket, but that didn't work.  Needed road building to replace the family farm road that washed out in a 100 yr flood.  Language might have been an issue.

Surreal to have a group of Peruvians on my mountain one Sunday evening taking small phone movies of me operating the crawler, sending it to Peru.  Then somebody there told them buy it.  

You may finally be retired but you're still using the gray matter.  My insurance agent, in frustration of trying to fit me into a category, decided several years ago that I must be "retired".   As you well know, when faced with a substantial expenditure it's always good to examine your options.  That's how eureka moments happen.  Extend-a-hoe is well worth the money if you look that direction, but excavators are the main game.  Nothing I'd choose to buy, but I'm happy with my duo.  I can borrow an extend-a-hoe anytime from a guy who bought it for me to operate, then I taught him.  Project's completed, but he loves the tractor.

Your post came out like everybody else's on my browser.  Good to see you're still kicking.  Have fun with the project.  Here, 10 minutes per yard is allowed placement time before surcharges kick in.  They cut me some slack, for volume.

PAHS works.  Bury it.

How ya doing? (post #205641, reply #15 of 20)

by JoeH in reply to VaTom [original] on Mon, 01/30/2012 - 20:03

long time gone missing.  I finally sold that place in Utah, we're here in New Mexico now. Another not suited for PAHS. Ruby still has her sox, is your Missus still at it?

Check in at the other place, it's a little more entertaining. I had a hard time getting in, Delphi remembers your old name but won't let you use it cuz it's already taken.


Good to see you again, Joe H

  Hi Joe,  still messing (post #205641, reply #16 of 20)

by VaTom in reply to JoeH [original] on Wed, 02/01/2012 - 16:05

 

Hi Joe,  still messing around on my mountain here.  Next big project is setting up the antique (this model was obsolete in 1937)  windmill for the mountaintop trout pond and see how much flow I get.  A 300' head doesn't need much to get some work done.

I've never seen a site unsuitable for PAHS, other than an extremely high water table.  Does not have to face south, unlike most passive solar.  One of the French ones I'm helping with actually has no windows, in the shape of a nautilus.   It's just a matter of figuring out where you can get enough heat to warm the earth up to room temperature, and keep it there.  Remember, it's also a cooling system, why we have no need for ac in Va.  

Yup, the little lady's still pushing sox (for 3 companies) and a van full of other ladies' apparel and accessories.  One of her lines was Canadian sheepskin slippers.  You wouldn't believe how comfortable sheepskin boot insoles are.  I noticed today when I was up and down ladders setting 26' oak 2x8's.  Heavy damn things to move by yourself.  Real nice rafters when you get them in place.  Takes a substantial (straight) tree to mill them. 

Congrats on unencumbering yourself.  I trust New Mexico is more suitable.  My Arizona mountain land was in the Wallow fire, but only lost a couple of trees.  Excellent work by the fire crew, that saved the big 50 yr old family cabin.  I expected they'd bring in crawlers and make a mess, but they did it all manually.  Not much but smoke damage.  Closest cabin to it, 100 yds away, burned to the ground.

Oh, was that the problem?  I wondered why I couldn't get in, didn't really think it was personal.   I'll try registration again.

Digress? Us?  Guess Art doesn't mind.

PAHS works.  Bury it.

Tom (post #205641, reply #17 of 20)

by calvin in reply to VaTom [original] on Wed, 02/01/2012 - 16:11

Any trips up to Lake Erie next summer?

 

And, if you do go over and they let you in........

don't forget to come back and visit.  This place isn't dead, doesn't take a genious mentality to navigate and still serves a decent function w/o all the bull [JOBSITE WORD] crap that pervaded the old site.

 

Not that it's easy nor didn't lose a ton of history with the picture threads and certainly not the volume,

but it's here if you should have an urge to stop by.

 

But I digress

alot.

A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.

Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.


http://www.quittintime.com/

 

Hey Calvin, still making (post #205641, reply #18 of 20)

by VaTom in reply to calvin [original] on Thu, 02/02/2012 - 11:41

Hey Calvin, still making annual trips delivering my mother to Michigan, but I've been flying back.  That lovely Pearson hasn't been wet since those strong winds made the marina shallow a couple of years ago, significant hull damage.  I think about you as I drive up 23, but that's not a good time to dally.  Mom hit 100 this fall.  I guess that's the reason for her impatience.

One of these years I'll get to Carey in August for the real show.  That is part of your annual schedule, isn't it?

It is nice to see that this forum is still around, serves a distinct function.  The photo threads, like Mike Smith's were impossible for me.  Then we got better internet, and now they're gone.  Was good to see the round photos, that posting still works.  If the sniping here is lessened, that would be good.  Management asked about my absence, I explained.  My primary interest is pretty narrow anyway.  q = A (k/t) ΔT, yup that's fascinating (conduction).

Digression is good.  Hope you're still taking those excellent photos.  I'll try to get back with a couple of conical roof examples that are wonderful.  A very interesting guy once opined "Walls are the easy part, just pile up almost anything.  It's the roof that gets interesting."  His houses were the polar opposite of mine, weighed about as much as an SUV.  Had to be anchored to prevent being blown away.  And we both favor large spans.  

I hope you're not still waiting for that rib delivery...

PAHS works.  Bury it.

Tom (post #205641, reply #19 of 20)

by calvin in reply to VaTom [original] on Thu, 02/02/2012 - 16:32

As luck would have it-we took over the place when we made our annual late fall sojurn down to New Riegel-25 or so, we had the longest table in the place and Hilda was very gracious in our setup.  There's talk of another trip down there soon.

Keep me in mind if you come this way, and tell your mom that she's one heck of a lady!

A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.

Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.


http://www.quittintime.com/