he he he
Awright, awright, so I couldn’t resist chuckling even before I started typing the post..
; )
Ok, halfway serious here…
Two points to get out of the way first… 1. I ain’t rich. 2. I REALLY do not like to go with conventional. The more unconventional the better. Always.
That said… I will be finishing my “front room” this summer. Part of getting it dried in, and liveable is going to be the siding, of course.
I would like to side it with cedar, but I don’t think that is going to happen. I have an old cedar stump that I considered trying to split out, but it turned out to be just too rotten.
So, I have been trying to think of some source of cheap, or preferably free siding… Started to think unconventionaly a couple of months ago. Came up with the idea of saving all the cans from food, cutting out both ends, cutting along the seam, flatten out… and viola’, a shiny shake.
Clean and polish, then dip in a good metal sealer. Apply just like regular shingles. Very small lap showing, of course. But it should work, nonetheless. It’s relatively free. (Gotta buy the food anyway.) And it would recycle the cans, rather than fill a landfill or a gulley.
If I did this, I would have to watch it carefully, to see if it would last. Probably plenty of maintenance. I am assuming that if I find it rusting quickly, I will have to paint it with a rust inhibiting paint very soon afterward.
I would also try to work in some kind of designs like that fish. My luck, it would turn into full-blown sculpture by the time I was well started. LOL I would, of course, try to make it look good. Artistic, if nothing else.
Aside from the fact that it is by-gawd tin cans, and the fact that it might rust quickly, what say you all ? Advice ? Jeers ?
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Replies
Interesting idea.
I think youmight be better off if you just let it rust or do something to expedite a quick, even coat of rust.
Just be sure to refer to the rust as "patina".
I wonder if there is some sort of metal working tool that could be used to easily roll the cut can out perfectly flat?
"I wonder if there is some sort of metal working tool that could be used to easily roll the cut can out perfectly flat?"
The back tire of my truck!
Years ago I saw an article in a photography mag about a guy who took pictures of flattened cans.
He was having an exhibition at the time.
Actually the pics were really good.
Art!
He almost got run over taking some of them.
get some kind of press so you can flatten em' efficiently.
don't bother with labels or removing the bottom.
Think ART!
Maybe youcan make the back cover of FHB!
Again!
:OMr T
Do not try this at home!
I am an Experienced Professional!
Good Idea!
I think Luka said something about removing the top and bottom and then slitting the can open prior to rolling flat. Never thought of what it might look like if you just flattened the can straight away . . .
Luke, another thought. You might try experimenting with the different look of a regular can opener (which cuts the lid and leaves the rim of the lid on the can) and the newer style of opener (which cuts the can around the side, just below the lid). The latter may make for easier-to-flatten-into-shakes cans.Steelkilt Lives!
In my thinking, those ridges down the sides would be a good thing.
In the shorter cans, they would end up top and bottom on the wall. But in taller cans, I would hope they could be oriented verticaly. Deal is, they would add a lot of rigidity to something that would otherwise bend easily in the strong windstorms we get up here.
Flattening the whole can would make for nice stiff shakes, but as I explained to T, it would also make for awfully small shakes. A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
If I flattened the whole can, I would have thicker shingles, yes. But they would also be really small.
I don't remember ever being on the back cover.
That old trailer was only a model. And it wasn't mine.
; )
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
Jim,
In my observation, it doesn't take much rust at all to get the whole can to disappearing quickly.
I do think that if I saw rusting problems, I would have to find a good tan colored rust preventive paint, and quick.
I was just going to stomp on them. LOL
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
Buy lotsa heavy gloves. I've seen liscense plate shakes in Kentucky. Kinda folksy on the right building. I saw tarpaper put up with bottlecap washers too, but that was less successful from the appearance and durability standpoint. Used to be you could buy log slab sides cheaply, which makes a fine cheap siding. If you want wood shingles cheap, sometimes motorcycles come crated in hardwood crates, may be you could cut fishscales and diamonds and scallops from cratewood? Then there is the corrugated metal, which is nice if done correctly. My sister put it on their kitchen wall. My dad thought they lost their minds, but it is fire resistant, and the refrigerator magnets stick to it.
Jeff ,
good free siding: drive around to sites where vinyl is being put up and offer to take there scraps
then do a mish mash of different colors and lengths.
could be art!Mr T
Do not try this at home!
I am an Experienced Professional!
No thanks.
I may be trailer trash, but hey, even I got some small bit of taste.
; ) A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
Heavy gloves and tetanus shot are a given.
; )
Mark, you have come up with some really good ideas. Things I had already considered, but had put away for one reason or another. Reading them, makes me think that I should consider again...
If I had a nice old huge bandsaw, I could cut my own log slabs. As thin as I wanted. And yes, that would make an excelent siding. Wouldn't matter how long it lasted, either, because it could be so easily replaced, and for free. (Man, I would give my left noogie for a real bandsaw ! And I have the room for one, now. Suppose I'll end up wasting a bunch of time and money, trying to build one myself. LOL)
You bring up another good point. I had considered using pallet boards as well. They seem to last forever, even when half buried, in the wet climate we have here.
Cut them off the pallet, and you have basic 18" and shorter boards. No nails to contend with, either. What is a shake, but a board ? I do think that if the same care is given to the pallet boards, as what is given to the shakes, it can look as good, and last as long...
There are pallets available that have pretty thin wood on them, as well. I'd just have to put time into finding those types, and would end up with basicaly the same thing as cedar siding, but of a different species.
Yes, fish scales and such could be incorporated. Maybe even easier than standard cedar siding.
Corrugated metal. That would work. I even have a bunch of old tin that came off the sides of a pole barn. But it is full of bends, tears, and holes. Some holes so big you could put your fist or even your head through. I could put it up, patch it, then paint it, but it would still look very ugly. This is the one spot on my property that draws attention and holds it the longest. I want to end up with something that is better than just passable. The corrugated would look just as bad.
Another idea is to just cut smaller, metal shingles from that stuff, instead of messing with the cans. If I do, I would be smartest, to buy or build a metal brake as well. I could actualy have a shingle system that not only looked standard, but worked that way as well. In my head, it could end up looking kind of like the copper roof in the "copper siding" thread here. But with tin instead of copper.
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
Armor plated house. Cool. Patented no less. Market it to the "Mole Hunter's" neigbors.
LOL
Good idea. A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
Shouldn't this be posted at redneckhomebuilding.com, instead of on FINE homebuiling's site ???.....................(-:
Ya know, I kinda like Mr. T's suggestion of using vinyl siding scraps. I know where there's a building where they used different colors of shingles to spell something on the roof. Maybe you could spell your name on the side of your building...........
Q: Why are blondes so easy to get into bed?
A: Who cares?
Oh yeah.
THAT'S not tacky at all. A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
Use beer cans instead if food cans, they are aluminum and won't rust.... Plus like the food you have to buy it any way.
Fess up, this is just an outer defensive shell for the Tinfoil Hat.....
Lots of houses built from old bottles out in the desert here in So Cal. Mortar and bottles and a lot of time to collect same.
Joe H
"Fess up, this is just an outer defensive shell for the Tinfoil Hat....."
Not a bad idea, if ya think about it. Then you'd only have to wear the tin foil hat when you're outside.........Q: Why do drivers' education classes in redneck schools use the car only on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays?A: Because on Tuesday and Thursday, the sex education class uses it.
The trailer already has metal skin. To be honest. I'd rather have wooden siding on the front room. But I have to consider all the possibilites, because I simply can't afford to just go buy siding.
Those bottle houses are actualy the inspiration for the tin can thing, believe it or not !
I considered using just the can top and bottom, at first. It would really look like fish scales throughout. Bt that idea went out, because it would take a long time, and the things would be so small, that it would be very difficult to get a real protective 'seal'.
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
P.S.
I have been saving up plastic bottles for a while now. Thinking that if I fill them with sand, I can build with them in place of bricks.
Problems there, are the fact that the plastic would, itself, prevent them from being locked in. And the sand "brick" would tend to get squished over time.
I have kept the bottles, though, because it occurred to me that I could cut the tops off, and pour cement in them, to make round bricks that I COULD build with, after removing the plastic.
Just another example of being determined and patient. I'll have to continue to save what I have, then when I get started, I'll have to just buy a bit of cement at a time, as I can afford it.
And hey, an example of thinking WAAAAY out of the box.... I even considered making a stainless steel form or some such, and melting the plastic bottles into it........ to form plastic shakes.
: )
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
Now there's an idea.
Bricks out of colored concrete using the bottles as forms, many different colors.
then standard motar in the joints.
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals built the Titanic.
I don't drink.
But the point is a good one. Same effort, and the result would last longer with less effort.
BTW: aluminum DOES rust. It's the same thing as rust on tin. Oxide. Oxidation. It's just called corrosion, instead of rust. And it's white instead of red.
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
where you at again?
I think your idea could look either really cool, or really sh!tty if you half aszed it, but I doubt that will be the case.
I'd look for that bandsaw and go with the wood myself, bet you can find one used for pretty cheap.
Might want to paint both sides of the cans after you flatten and before you install with some sort of 2 part epoxy paint to fend off the rust as long as possible
....and no drywall screws for install..... ;)Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals built the Titanic.
I'm in the great northwet.
Exactly my thought. I do not want sh#tty. I want this to look as good as I can make it look for free or cheap. I do believe that even tin cans can be made to look good.
I have looked for bandsaws. Seriously. Long and hard. Came across some, but could never afford them.
I want a really big one. Cheap is never cheap enough, though. I have been hoping to run across one that is broken and old. I can fix anything. And I can manufacture parts if need be. But the saw has to be free. When you live on 300 a month, even 50 dollars can seem like a fortune. (300 is not a typo) And I have never seen a bandsaw of the larger size, go for less than 300. No matter what the shape. Sorry, but I simply cannot spend a whole month's money on a single tool.
That would be my preference as well. I know I can make that look more than just nice. Then there's the added benefit of being able to cut more wood for other uses. Metal as well.
Painting with an epoxy paint would make the whole project moot. It would cost more than if I just went out and bought cedar shakes.
If I went with the tin cans, yes, I fully intended to use small, cheap drywall screws...
; )
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
Luka
I like the idea of the cans, don't lower yourself to using that damn vinyl siding.
Also the idea of the cut logs would be good, you don't need a band saw, do it with a chain saw, use your imagination for gods sake.
I can see it now, we'll be seeing you on one of those HGTV shows about weird homes.
What ever you do, do it with some class, no sense cobbling something together.
Doug
PS, I can start saving cans for you if you need.
Instead of cat food cans (aren't cats food anyway?), get to a restaurant, maybe more so one that does a veggie buffet, and get the big, about 1 gallon tin cans that the beans and stuff come in. More coverage faster. Or go out at night and collect hubcabs.
How 'bout plastic 5gal pails?
Cut bottom out, slit down one side (Like the cans) and soften them up in a makeshift oven (old 55gal drum laid on it's side over a fire?). You could melt them onto a piece of corrigated steel, expanded metal, or other items to give the new "sheet good" some texture. You'll have to watch them REAL close to make sure they don't turn to goo though.
Now that is something that I had not thought about.
I like that idea.
In my experience, those buckets begin to get brittle after about 4 years out in the sun. But I have never seen one that would leak, even then. I don't think brittle would be a problem. It's not like I'll be bouncing a basketball off the side of my house. Only two of these walls will ever get any direct sunlight, and even those two only get it a very few months out of the year.
Now, if I took my smooth tin, cut it to shapes, sanded them rough, then melted the slabs of bucket to them, to make the sort of shake you describe.... Hmmmm
I would not do it with an oven. I would do it with a burn pit. Build a good fire. Put a rack far enough above the fire not to have direct flamage hitting it. Then lay the piece of metal on the rack, and lay the plastic on top. Leave it until the plastic melts to the metal. Trim any excess, and you got a laminated shake.
Hey, I could get excited about this one.
The alternative, still, is to skip the plastic, and as I said before, build or buy a metal brake, then cut the tin and fold it into real, interlocking shingles. I think I've already got enough tin...
The plastic though, would lend it a bit more weather resistance, as well as thickness, and 'texture'.
This part of the job is still plenty far enough off that I have time to think about this for a while.
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
Yes, the bigger cans are a good idea.
I suppose I could start making the rounds of the local restaurants, asking for their old cans. A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
How about coil stock. Comes already coated, either smooth or grained.
Slice to size and nail it up with aluminum nails.
Might be some of those siding guys in your area who throw out the end of the roll or have odds and ends hanging around. You should be able to make a miniature brake to form that stuff to hang right.
Another excelent idea.
I suppose whatever I happen to run across enough of, first, will win.
: )
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
Luka...
You gonna start a thread on which siding nailer is best to use? Or stapler? Which fastner? All by manufacturer make and models.
Screws instead of nails or staples. SS or galv. This could go on forever. Which screw gun.
Olay!!!
Hey Luka,
My partner told me of his uncle's barn out in Nebraska that the guy shingled with the lids from 50 gallon drums! Been there many years and hasn't leaked a drop yet.
Looks great in funky sorta way too, he says. People stop to take pictures.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
I'd like to see that one, myself.
: ) A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
I think an easier thing to use might be roofing shingles. I would probably avoid them on the south side unless they are shaded, but I applied roll roofing to the sides of my chickenhouse and its still holding up fine. Don't try this at home though. Roll roofing applied to vertical surfaces is a bear. Too floppy and heavy. Also the exposed roofers are ugly. Chickens don't care though.
Remember the asphalt fake "brick siding"? That was once popular, and was durable. But it was not too convincing. Never saw wrinkles and sags in real bricks.
Seriously, why dont you try some real cement stucco. The materials cost is fairly low, but the labor is high. Something else to consider might be stone if you can get it free.
Another thing is tyvek. My neighbor has used it for siding going on 3 years now. I think he should just paint it and be done.
ROFLOL
Wrinkles and sags. Sounds like the old folks home that Piffin is talking about designing.
Roofing shingles or roll roofing were considered. They were tossed for two reasons. 1. I may be trailer trash, but I do NOT want whatever I finish up with, to look like it. 2. I would have to buy the roofing.
(Yes, the initial thought of tin cans evokes an image of trailer trash housing. But I do think that it can be made to look artistic, clean, intentional, and craftily and carefully done.)
I lived in a house once, that had that siding.
Fairly low is not cheap enough. I would still have to buy the wire mesh, the stuco materials, and everything else involved. If I have to spend that much, I might as well buy some cedar shakes.
I do have to admit, though, that I like the sound of tan colored stucco...
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
Tin cans sound like a lot of work. Plus you gotta eat a lot of beans. Course if you could recover some of the "bio-gas" ya might be able to cut the heat bill down.
Instead of flattening them, why not cut them in half and sort of lap them like the southwestern/Floridian clay tiles? Lots of texture! Very embiggening!
did
Unencumbered by knowledge or fear...
Embiggening.
And use 4x4's and 4x6's as trim ?
; ) A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
Nah - use cans with one quarter cut away. Wrap them around the corners. I love it already!
didUnencumbered by knowledge or fear...
Coffee cans.. Different sizes. The lids for gasketing or flashing. Prepainted in different colors. A mosaic.
Now for what designs.
Luka, The best idea might be way back in this thread - the license plate house in Kentucky. Consider this - your Breaktime buddies can mail you our old tags - I've got about 20 Georgia tags and probably 10 from Tennessee. Now, I know you don't want an eyesore, so rather than a multi colored wall of tags, turn them face down. The back face of the tags will be fairly uniform in color and should weather a lot better than steel cans.
I'll bet it would make for a good siding. You might be able to select particular colors and hang some face-out for that dang fish you want to incorporate !
I'm willing. How 'bout it ? Greg
Edited 6/25/2003 9:58:23 AM ET by Greg Gibson
Guys,
I think we should all save up our cans and ship them to Luka for his project. If everyone who benefited from (all right, at least read) one of his posts saved up their cans until they filled up a box and sent them to Luka, he would be able to side the Tin Can Taj Mahal.
Luka, if you're interested, post us an address where we can send them.
Rich.
ROFLMFAO
Thanks I can always use a good guffaw.
I'm not sold on the tin can thing yet. It was one idea out of several. It just seems like the one that could end up being different enough to twang my individualist chord. Yet done properly, it can look costly, (dare I say elegant ? In a tin-canny sort of way, of course... LOL), and can be equivalent to any other siding out there, in protection value.
I am still leaning toward the wood ideas. I really like the idea of the thin log slabs, but I'll need a bandsaw for that. (Tried the chainsaw... it'll burn up quick if I do that. It's already a very old beastie. Besides, there is a LOT of waste and byproducts.)
Right now I guess I am starting to lean back toward finding pallets with thin boards...
If I decide to go ahead with the tin can idea, then I would say, go for it, send them on. But lets wait until I decide.
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
Luka
Around here there are a few sawmills that will about give away log slab sides. I don't think you would need much more than a chain saw to put them up as siding. It is a very rustic look, and would be unacceptable most places, but I saw some that were peeled and coated with a clear finish of some sort, and they looked great (but rustic). I'll send you some cans too if you want them.
I don't know how you feel about this, but maybe habitat for humanity could help you out. It's possible they may have small quantities of materials that they cannot use because there is not enough to finish a whole house. My dad worked for them a lot and they have warehouses of stuff donated that they cannot use.
Interesting idea. You could go vinyl too flattening milk containers (only I'd guess that would be going polyethylene).
What about salvage? A few years ago when I was still building scenery for the theatre we took the cedar shingles off a the side of a house we were remodeling to side this house we were also building for a theatrical set. Every once in a while when I go looking through the shop for shimming material I find one of those old shingles from that batch too, While we are primarily finish work now I can tell you that in the last decade I doubt I have ever bought a package of shingle to cut up and use for shims. We always pull and harvest them from salvage. Just trying to think "recycling" and "green" and waste not, want not.
View Image
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." - Margaret Mead
Use tuna fish cans... and you would think you were in the bedroom all the time... :-)
Jim
I'm not sure if it was in the Foxfire books or some other account of Appalachian lore, but I remember reading of some old granny who roofed her house that way. Tacked the flattened cans down and then painted it all. The author found her doing the back side when the front was a few years old already, if I remember right
Excellence is its own reward!
I admire your willingness to consider all alternatives! Think outside the cranium!
A few thoughts:
Pallet wood varies considerably. Might want to be careful about not mixing woods of drastically different types i.e. some pallets are made of cottonwood some of oak.
I've had some good luck going around to larger outfits and offering to clean "the yard" in exchange for whatever was there. Got a lot of insulation once, a lot of odds and ends shingles once. Might be worth the effort. Always go in person!
Offer to remove downed trees after big storms. If you could get some cedar you could get a fro and make shakes.
Won't any type of plastic (bottles, etc) degrade too fast?
How about slab wood? Around here the small mills sell as much as you can pile on your truck for $10. People use it for fences, firewood, and siding. Even if it's not got any straight edges you can cut them yourself.
Car body parts. Got a torch? Cut steel shingles...
Tires? People pay to get rid of tires. Cut into shingles?
Someone mentioned barrel tops (love it!). How about the barrels? Flatten, etc? Or not?!?!?
A friend from Mexico said they make stucco out of adobe type soil and mix it with milk instead of water to make it more erosion resistant. Add more when it starts to wash off. (or mix it with asphalt emulsion - the gringo way). You'd have your tan stucco - sort of!
I once found a newspaper (20 years ago in Helena, MT) that printed using aluminum plates. They sold the used plates very cheap. I roofed a goat barn with them. You could catch up on the local news as you put the roof on.
I once built a nice chicken house by scrounging job sites for scrap and nailing it together flat (log cabin style). Found that there was a lot of CCA scrap. Bottom two feet of the hen house were treated. Maybe you could scrounge up enough treated scrap to use it as shingles. Or split it into shakes?
How about old signs? Many city real estate outfits throw out old signs when they get scratched up or otherwise less attractive. Big shingles!
Where's junkhound?!?!
Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.
Pallet wood. Yup, I'd already thought of that. Had already planned on looking for the same basic pallets. Being picky like that, though, can mean taking a lot longer to finish. It might be just as well, to use anything I can get, as long as it looks good, then make sure the lap and gap is covered better than normal.
I've done the same at yards. Unfortunately, now, the closest one to me, sells all that stuff for premium prices. Broken and split sheets of plywood for 50 cents off. I kid you not. And I mean stuff that was broken in half by the forklift, etc. This is just an example.
All the other yards are too far away for me to be driving to every day, or every other day, to have a look. I still do so when I can. I have gotten some pretty good large dimensional stuff. Just chunks cut off from larger pieces, but they make good piers and steps and such.
I'm pretty sure that all the cedar was cleared from my property 60 years ago. Got some huge stumps. They are so rotten, they are unuseable. But I am going to have a friend look the property over and tell me if there is a cedar among those spruce and alder. If so, I'll take it down, and have enough for shingles for all my buildings.
I thought the same of the bottles plastic. But 5 gal bucket plastic should last longer.
I have picked up some slab stuff in the past. I'll keep looking. But most of that stuff is just way too heavy, and I have no means of cutting it thinner. I don't really think I would want to put the slab stuff that I have found, on my walls. Just way too heavy.
After reading another post here, I have started collecting car hoods. I am going to make a fence out of them. I have considered in the past, doing as you suggest, and cutting shingles out of them. I have also considered the same thing with panels from cast-off washers and dryers. I don't have a torch, so it would be slow cutting for me, using a hacksaw.
I also considered the tires option. That seems like a really good one to me. But I am back to the fact that I could do this, (and the metal panels one)(and the log slabs one, and and and...), if I had a large bandsaw. A metal cutting one would work for both. But I am not going to be spending some huge amount of time cutting all this stuff up with a hacksaw. Or even wearing out a sawzall with metal cutting blades. Just ain't gunna happen...
Where I live, that stuff would last about three hours. Probably why they don't have stucco around here, 'eh ? LOL
I like the printer's plates. That would be an excelent option.
I was going to build a dome that way. Cut the scraps short, and nail them down flat. Should be fairly easy to build up into the dome shape. Once done, I would leave the outside rough, and smooth the inside with a chainsaw chain on a grinder. Then wire mesh the whole thing on thr outside. Then rebar mesh the whole thing, with the rebar offset from the surface. Then put concrete over that.
Figured that I could do the whole thing a bit at a time, as I could afford the materials.
Figured out that that would not pass anyone's version of code around here. Then found out as well, that before I could even get started on such a thing, I would be out at least 25-27 thousand dollars. For all the permits, studies, etc, that this county requires before you can even nail the first couple of pieces of wood together.
Signs would be another excelent source. maybe even put them face out, just to piss off the neighbors. LOL But again, where would I find any ? They are obviously recycled now, for the money.
I have been wondering the same thing. Where's Junkhound ? A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
Luka,
I love the tin can idea. But you don't need to discard the idea of using wood if you have the logs on your property, a bandsaw is not required. What is required is a lot of sweat, a sledge, some wedges, an axe, and an adze doesn't hurt either. Make your own siding. The handcrafting will guarantee that it doesn't look like trash and a home in the woods with natural siding looks, well, natural. Or, as a designer might say, organic.
Cedar isn't required either. My home has pine clapboards that have held up well for 34 years (with a couple of exceptions here and there). The secret is paint - it protects the wood. If you dress your wood well enough you could paint your siding with mis-tints picked up on the cheap at the local paint shop or big box. If you prefer the rough look, then you can still protect the wood, it's just higher maintenance.
Another idea I was thinking about was cedar shakes. Find a house that is doing a tear-off and offer to haul them away. The shakes from our roof all ended up in a landfill somewhere, and many, many of them still had plenty of life in them. Think twice about this if you have allergies - our roof was incredibly filthy and allergies to whatever was inhabiting it made me look like somebody had socked me in both eyes (hence, the landfill rather than the garage).
Luka,
How about in the gables you can do a scalloped pattern with drywall mud bucket lids??!!!
Mr T
Do not try this at home!
I am an Experienced Professional!
Four beers, and this .jpg is my best idea for the day for you:
It would leak. Besides making the house lop-sided. A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
NYUCK NYUCK NYUCK
WHY SOITENLY!MOE, LARRY look a GOIGEOUS HOUSE!!!
WHOOOOP WHOOOP WHOOP WHOOP OOOP OOOOOP!!!Mr T
Do not try this at home!
I am an Experienced Professional!
You need to go back to bed. No more late night TV for you. Now git.
A lady in the neighborhood over from mine had her "Shoe House" for many many years. The entire siding of her house was made up of old shoes.
They came down a few years back as she sold the house.
Not sure where your would find 10-50 square of shoes though. :)
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals built the Titanic.
Ok, screw it.
I'm going back to my old stand-by.
I will cut the alder logs I have had out for almost two years, into 2' blanks, and shake them out.
Alder shakes are better than tin cans.
I steered away from that because of all the comments here about how they would rot so quickly. Well, what alternative do I have ? We have discussed some alternatives, and nothing works better than the alder shakes.
Has to be free. Tin cans are free. Beer cans are free. License plates could be free, but I doubt if I could collect enough of them to side with. All these alternatives would look funky, (even more so than alder shakes.) and each would carry with them the price of the special attention I would have to give. Treatments, fasteners, etc...
If I do the alder shakes, I have to give attention to the same things, but the results are going to look better from the road. The alder is free. If they last 5 years and rot, I can cut some more in 5 years.
Treatments... I want to use a borax treatment to deal primarily with rot, fungus, mold and mildew. But also because of the carpenter ants that swarm this place, as well as other insects.
I'll then need a good waterproof treatment.
I need CHEAP home recipes for these things. And I mean CHEAP. I don't mean relatively, compared to other things... I mean cheap all on it's own.
I'll run lath horizontaly for each row. With gaps in the horizontal wherever I can put them, to allow for breathing in both directions under there.
I may do all the siding the best I can for now, then shake out some more, and stack and sticker under a sort of plastic greenhouse. To get them good and dry. Once those are finished, I could simply gather all the oil based paint I can scavenge, mix it together in 5 gallon buckets, and dip the shakes. Once covered on all 6 like that, strip the old shakes, side with these, then paint the whole thing a tan color.
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
I know you live somewhere in the boonies so I'm guessing their ain't no HD or Lowes to close...
But I always see 1 and 5 gal. buckets of mis-matched paint for a couple of bucks a gallon
Probably paint your house for about 20 bucks if you don't mind not picking the color.
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals built the Titanic.
I've been in the Lowes in Everett, and they still want 35-40 dollars for a 5 gallon bucket of mis-matched paint.
If I could afford that, I think that I might even be able to get some kind of compromise color that I would like. Some of those mis-matched cans are mostly white. Buy a pint can of brown, maybe some yellow and/or red as well, and mix it in a little bit at a time... Voyla !! Ya gots paint that looks something like the color of cedar !!
: ) A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
Luka, I found something else for you to take a look at. I found this on the cnn website, a man in Florida used printing press plates discarded by the local newspaper. Cost him nothing. Big sheets cover a large area fast. Take a look at the story...
http://www.cnn.com/2003/TRAVEL/DESTINATIONS/06/26/sprj.st03.solomon.sculpture.ap/index.htmlWe are the people our parents warned us about. J. Buffett
Thanks Mike. It's a good idea. It's just not as cheap an idea as it sounds. A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
how about a mixture off old engine oil and thinners???
don't know if it'll smell.
old oil mixed 50/50 with creosote makes it go much further.
aleks
I don't think I can even buy creosote here anymore.
Used oil mixed with mineral spirits sounds like a good idea. I would be concerned, though, that the result would a) be a torch waiting for a spark, and 2.) not be paintable, if the results are just a bit too ugly...
I wonder though, if that would be a good solution for both the water seal, and the bugs/mold/etc problems. Sounds like it may be.
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
i've got no idea about fire resistance of this stuff.
i can only suggest you could try abit somewhere.
aleks
Luka,
how about those plastic corrugated signs that you see nailed to telephone poles offering answers on how to lose weight or how to earn a lot at home with your computer? They are up all over the place where I live, and they are really sturdy. Ripping them down shouldn't get you in trouble, because posting them is against the law in most places. One side is usually unpainted, but you could grab one and do a test to see if they take paint. They are stong and light. Seem to be pretty durable too.
This guy routinely rips them down and uses them when building artsy things. Check out the link for more info on working with these signs to make stuff:
http://www.cockeyed.com/incredible/wings/wings.html
Hope this helps.
-Dan
Shortly after moving in here, I used two, 4x8 foot sheets of that for roofing on a temporary porch.
It was election bilboards.
It worked great. But in less than a year, it was so brittle that you could put your finger through it without even trying. A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
Better than free - get paid to take somebody else's shake (or slate, from another thread!) tear-off. Then you can get the cedar, get some money, and use your alder inside the house as the poor man's cherry.
Thanks all, for the extra suggestions.
I live way out in the boonies. I cannot just drive down a few blocks, or across town, and check out all the possibilities for scrounging.
I did that for years. I learned that you have to get out there quite often, and keep your eyes open, to catch the good scrounges. It takes a lot of gas just to get to town. Especialy any town that just might have the sort of things as press plates. I'd have to go all the way to Everett for that.
Whereas, I might be able to scrounge throwaway paint at the hardware store in Sultan. I'd prefer oil-based for the dip coat. But who knows what I will get...
Most of the suggestions may seem free or cheap on the face of it, but will end up costing more than if I just split out the wood I have and use it.
The wood will be free. The paint either free, or nearly so. (At least until that final coat when I paint it the color I actualy want it.) The nails will be the most expensive part of it.
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
Hi, Luka. I'm a long time lurker, and just decided to post to reply to the "tin can" thread. My question is prompted by this and other items I have read, relating to use of alternative building materials, found objects, recycling, etc.
Forgive me if it's a naive query, but how in the world to you get around building code enforcement officials? Personally, I am in a municipality which even "outlawed" metal roofing & siding (just as I was preparing to build a pole building for my garage).
Even in the rural areas, most counties have stopped allowing mobile homes, and similar ways to live on less while building.
Without invading your privacy, as to your exact area, can you shed a little light on code enforcement (or lack of ) in your area?
Thanks, B.
I don't "get around" the officials. I work with them, within the regulations, to find a solution that works for me.
What I live in is an rv trailer. It is allowed to some extent in this county. The extent that it is not allowed, is basicaly unenforcable, and the county inspectors say as much.
As long as the thing still has it's wheels, tongue, and meets other codes for RV portability, it works. Mine is on steep land, so one corner is on a tall pier I constructed. But the pier can be dismatled, and the trailer pulled out of the spot it is in. Everything else about the trailer meets RV portability codes.
The inspector looked at it. A glance. He wasn't interested in looking further. When I asked if he was going to have a better look, he told me the above. That as long as it still has the wheels, and meets the standard codes, all of which can be seen at a glance, it is legal.
The only part that is sticky is that in this county you can only "live" in it for 6 months of the year. That is the part that he said was pretty much unenforcable. Basicaly something about there being several millions of rv's sitting around being lived in. If they were going to enforce that one, they would be swamped, and could do nothing else at all. Even then they would never ever catch up on that job. So it has become another law like not spitting on the sidewalk.
A mobile home cannot be set on a property unless and until you have a foundation, septic, and well. The same requirements as for a house.
...
I would be willing to bet that even in your area, if you pulled a large RV trailer on the property, they would not tell you that you could not stay in it while building.
...
The building...
It is shy of 120 square feet. In this county, you can build a shed without a permit, and without any codes, as long as it is 120 sq ft or less.
My building is a "shed". I can side it with anything I want, as long as it is not a niusance or fire hazard.
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
Thanks for the reply in detail, Luka.
I in no way meant to imply you were bypassing or ignoring codes, sorry, poor choice of language.
I sure did not want to start on the wrong foot. I have become interested in "doing more with less" financially, and I have seen many interesting ideas in terms of materials, and techniques. but am just now trying to figure out how some things are done, with regard to local regulation.
Thanks again!
Do like I did.
Well, not exactly as I did. I built a structure that was bigger than the code allowed. I was unaware of the code. Or, just barely aware. I am still in the process of cutting that building in half to make two structures of less than 120sq ft, after having been caught out.
After that... I went to the county couthouse. Spent a day there, reading all I could about particular codes that would apply to my situation. Also found that they have pamphlets that cover just about every bit of the codes and regulations. Get all the right pamphlets, and you basicaly have all the codes and regs.
If you miss something this time, go back and get more pamphlets. You then have the written page to reference while you work. And to point to later, if need be.
Also, try to make aqquaintance with the county inspectors. Explain your situation to them. Tell them that you do not want to break any of the laws, and ask them to help you to find a solution that will work for you, and stay within the regs.
I hope this helps.
: ) A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
Good solution.
But I don't have contacts that will let me know when something like that is available. Just as the scrounging situation was explained above, this fits there very well, also.
If I were driving into town every day, I might run across something. But I live in the boonies. I go to town from 2 to 5 times a month.
Even if I were offered such a deal, they would have to be willing to wait forever for me to get the tear-off done. I am not working anymore, for good reason. That reason would affect this sort of deal as well. A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
5 gal mismatch paint here at Lowes is $7.50. Gallons are $2. HD gets $5.00 / gallon. There is so much junk here they cant hardly give it away. Course they really burn you good for the good stuff. Don't say I told you this but BIGLOTS (SECRET MESSAGE) sells some house paint for like 6-7 bucks a gallon. But the porch and deck gloss oil paint is what my sister used to paint her victorian house with. It's pretty good for the money. Now I know that is not free. So maybe you can go to a recycling center (if you have such a thing) and explain what you need. Maybe you can recycle someone elses trash.
Hey, what about whitewash? That's cheap and you can mix in something to make it weather resistant. I think you can find recipes on the web.
I think the alder is a bad idea from what this article says. If possible I would look for something else. My grandfather split out some locust shakes for a log barn. That must have been a b%^ch. Lasted forever though. Use what you got if you can't do better though.
RED ALDER (Alnus rubra)
The genus Alnus is represented by 20-30 species native to North and Tropical America (15) and Eurasia (15). The word alnus is the classical Latin name for alder.
Distribution Pacific coast region from Southeast Alaska southeast to southern California; also locally east to northern Idaho. Red Alder is common throughout Southeast Alaska on stream bottoms with rich, rocky, moist soils and along beaches where creeks enter the sea. On landslides it forms almost impenetrable thickets. Red Alder is a pioneer species on mineral soil, thriving in moist sites. It is common below 1,000 feet elevation and absent at higher elevations, where Sitka alder is frequent.
Both species come in along roadsides and where ground is disturbed after logging. They are a problem in road maintenance, requiring continual clearance of shoulders and side slopes.
The Tree This is a small to medium-sized deciduous tree with a height of 20-40 feet and a diameter of 4 to 16 inches.
General Wood Characteristics Both the sapwood and heartwood of red alder are nearly white when freshly cut, and there is little or no visible distinction between the two. Shortly after being cut, the wood changes to a reddish brown and when dry, may appear to be a light yellowish brown. The wood has a fine uniform grain, is smooth textured, and is easy to work. The annual rings are each made up of a comparatively wide band of springwood and a narrow band of summerwood, the summerwood appearing as fine lines in the radial section.
The wood is moderately light in weight, moderately strong in bending (as in a beam) and compression (as in a post), moderately soft, moderate in stiffness, and moderately low in ability to resist shock. It has little tendency to split when nailed and has moderate nail-holding ability. When properly seasoned, the wood is comparatively stable in all dimensions, and surface checking is not apt to occur in use. Red alder takes and holds stains and paints exceptionally well and glues easily. The wood has low resistance to decay, and in this characteristic is comparable to aspen or white fir. Green lumber is especially vulnerable to organisms producing decay. Unless the green boards are kiln-dried without undue delay or promptly open-piled for air seasoning, they become stained.
Working PropertiesRed alder is excellent for turning and polishing and takes glue, paint , and stain well.
Durability Rated as slightly or nonresistant to heartwood decay.
Preservation Logs should be processed quickly, particularly during warm weather, as decay proceeds rapidly. If processing must be delayed, the logs should be stored in water. Green number should be carefully stacked for air-drying or promptly kilndried to prevent damage from microbial stain.
Uses Of little economic importance in Alaska at present, the primary use of red alder in the Pacific Northwest is for pulpwood. Lumber for furniture manufacture ranks next in importance. Prior to 1950, the furniture industry used nearly 99 percent of the red alder lumber manufactured. Now the figure is closer to 90 percent. The wood has proved very satisfactory for stained or enameled furniture, for the cores of panels faced with more expensive cabinet woods, such as mahogany and black walnut, for turned and shaped parts for low-priced chairs, and for drawer sides, bottoms and ends. Small quantities of red alder are also used for fixtures, general millwork, and handles. The wood is used also in smoking meat and fish and for wood carving.
Ok, a quick update...
I went to Junkhound's house yesterday. Picked up some plywood.
While there, he told me about a bunch of cedar rounds he has. He had intended to shake them out and use them himself, but decided that he doesn't have the time or energy anymore.
So... he said that I could have them. I'll be making another trip over there someday, to pick the rounds up.
Meantime, I have to finish the structure anyway. When the roof and walls are dried in, I will cover the walls with two layers of tarpaper, in case it has to go through the winter again.
I may have the shakes finished by the end of summer. If I do, I will probably go right ahead and put them up through the winter.
I am a lot happier with the thought of cedar shakes, than any of the alternatives. At least for this particular structure, and it's location.
I have other structures that I just may shingle with beer cans.
; )
And hey, I even figured out how to make and use a small brake that will give the cans the perfect interlocking folds. That will also give them more strength.
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
Jeff,
I was bored so I did some math....
A beer/soda can will yield a piece of flat stock approx. 4"x4".
At a 2" reveal (to save on tarpaper of tyvek) that gives 8 square inches of coverage per can
12x12x100/8=1800 cans per square.
x .05$ per can =90$/ square
Unless you use some kind of can that does'nt have a redemption value, you can (PUN) turn them in and buy some nice siding!!!
well little buddy wants the compouter now.
Toodles
Mr T
Do not try this at home!
I am an Experienced Professional!