About to start sidewalling an addition with red cedars… all corners are woven (no corner boards)…anyone have any clever tips to speed up the process?
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You're going to alternate which corse runs long, right?
I use a sharp knife and a block plane as primary tools when trimming the long shingle. I guess a jig saw would speed things up a little, but, what's the rush? That's a very satisfying job, weaving a shingle corner.
Who's the cat that won't cop out, when there's danger all about?
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I'm same as you. When I'm on it every day, I get so I can use just the ute knife,Somebody here once suggested a router with guide bearing
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If it's cedar shingles you're using, a small circular saw to trim within 1/8" or so, then finish it with a block plane. If you're talking claps, we always used sharp planes... Cut it, see how it fits, plane, see how it fits, plane again. But with trial and error early on, you should be able to make a jig for the circ saw (or figure out the settings on a SCMS) that will get you pretty close.
>> a small circular saw to trim within 1/8" or so, then finish it with a block plane. <<I do the same thing. It's fast and easy. I use the cordless makita.http://www.amazon.com/Makita-5094DWD-14-4-Volt-8-Inch-Cordless/dp/B0001AGNPU/sr=1-2/qid=1161616780/ref=sr_1_2/102-7668223-3930566?ie=UTF8&s=hiJoe Carola
Trim router with a flush cut bit.
Gently....cedar is soft.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
there he is!
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Cut it close with a portable table saw up on the scaffold, then after it is nailed, tune it in with the long surform plane.
RJC
I'll second the use of a surform plane. They come in a few different styles. I used the one pictured. It works great.
-Don
View Image
Edited 10/23/2006 7:21 am ET by DonCanDo
How do you guys avoid scarring up the adjacent shingle on the opposite side of the corner when you use that battle axe?
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I've also had good luck using a random orbit sander with 36 or so grit paper.
"Let's go to Memphis in the meantime, baby" - John Hiatt.
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How do you guys avoid scarring up the adjacent shingle on the opposite side of the corner when you use that battle axe?
Hey, this is Fine Homebuilding, not Fine Woodworking :-)
But seriously, with a little care and some touch-up with sandpaper, it comes out pretty good.
-Don
I just use a sharp block plane. It nestles in a side seat in my oxys. After the knife, five or six swipes and a kiss....
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When I was doing a lot of cedar shingles, I used to be able to fit everything with a sharp hatchet. I'd sharpen the hatchet a couple of times a day.
It's been years since then. Now I use a block plane and utility knife when I fit them.
Good Grief!I can cut it threetimes as fast with a simple utility knife as with a table saw and not need to use up all the saging space and power cord.
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utility knief, block plane and a wood rasp..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
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I went to one of Mike Gueterin's clinics at a recent JLC live where he pre-built all of his corners. You weave your first 3 corners by hand until the angle becomes consistant and then use the pre-builts. A corner mock up at the exposure you're using gets you the angle of the shingle cuts once you get past the first 3 corners. Then you make a simple ripping sled for a table saw to rip the tapers. Then build corners of various widths with brads and glue, but make sure to only pin and glue the lower half of the shingles to allow the upper, covered ends to splay on the wall. This probably only makes sense if you have alot of weaving to do, since it requires quite a bit of set up time. If you are adjusting your exposures to line up with window and door trim, Mike seemed to think that you could easily move a 1/2" either direction of your average exposure and the corners would work just fine.
Everyone stole my thunder and I only wove corners once but I used the cordless saw/block plane combo. If I ever do it again, I really like the idea of the premade corners.
"you make a simple ripping sled for a table saw to rip the tapers"The problem with this is that a good woven corner is not a straight taper. It will have a delicate curve! That can only be done in place. For owners who don't know the difference and a shingler who wants to spend time out of the weather, I ssuppose it fits, but for a skilled shingler, It will definitely not save any time.I get constantly amazed at all the young guys who jump thru all kinds of hoops trying to avoid learning the right way to do it, devising ways to use power tools when they are just not needed. They simply need to spend a little time practicing and aquireing the old skills. Good grief, what's next, spray the walls on?
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hehehehe, I'm getting to like you, you crotchety old fart...wait, can I say that?
yup i totally agree...i sometimes use the slige compound to cut the shingles without the perfect grain...but the utility abd a sharp plane you cant beat..also, around here we step flash the sun eposed weather corners of the house or atleast i do,,,
Say what you want. It is a perfect phrase.
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Spray-on walls...you might be onto something!
i generally leave my guys alone to do their own thing, most will use a small block plane and utility knife
i was taught to use a VERY sharp hatchet
nowadays i use a small diameter skill saw, my favorite was my 4" PC
but lately i use a 6" Panasonic battery powered
the idea of prefabbing corners requires nailing one to the other.. which is one thing i insist my guys NOT do... if you go back and look at other corners where they used small nails ( typically a 4d galv. finish ) ) many of the corners will be split and there will be small pieces missing..
we rely on the clamping effect of bending the shingles to keep the corners closed tight... no nails thru the corners
as to appearance.. a long smooth , faired curve , and consistency .. is most important in the final look
our next job will have woven corners with 6" courses of factory dipped red cedarsMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,
In the red cedar roof thread I thought your guys prefabbed the hips?
Were they just precut and installed singly or already joined?
the hips were all prefabbed & nailed to each other.. it looks like they used two SS ring shank box nailsMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
We tack/pin corners with a three penny fine pot nail. just Sunday I was by a house we did ten years ago reviewing it 'cause it is now on the market. Every single corner is fine. The nail has to be small and the guy driving it has to be accurate and carefull.
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guess what... you don't need to nail your corners that way.. you can make the corners tight just with the bend and reading the grain of the shingle
i spent 15 years nailing the corners like you..
i've spent 15 years not nailing the corners.. i won't go backMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Coming from you means I'll try it next time!
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Mike, I'd say it's something like one out of every ten or twenty courses where the shingles just don't want to sit tight. My technique may be flawed, I don't know.
Someday I'd like to try a shingle hatchet. I've never used one.
When I get home I'll post some pictures of the hand-split red cedar sidewall we did last year. Very rough shingles-- tough to get a good corner. They get soaked and they dry in the sun and want to curl out. When it rains they lay down again. Hornery things.
Don't yell at me, every shingle corner I've ever woven was cut using a razor sharp utility knife and a block plane. Satisfying work, and quiet to boot. But the question was about faster ways of doing it than this. I'm just relaying an option being taught by someone who has written more fine homebuilding articles than you can shake a stick at.I don't like to nail my corners, either. I typically like to cut my short shingle a bit long so that when the overlapping shingle is placed over it, it is "sprung" tight.Also, at the exposures I typically install sidewall shingles (about 5 - 5.5"), the curve issue doesn't come into play until well above the exposure line. So it is perfectly acceptable to cut your shingles straight and let the top pull away from the corner.
I WAS NOT YELLING.;)I have met Mike and have read many of his articles.
But he doesn't have a third the shingling experience I have so how many articles he writes about it doesn't mean spit to me. Not that he writes anything wrong. Just that it is less than complete from my POV.I was just commenting in general about the desire of this younger generation to look for 'easier' ways which only appear on first glance to be easier when they could spend a littel time learning a better way.No need to take it personal
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fair enough...
Another trick I just learned--
Traditionally you try to avoid nails to hold the corners together. Some guys like to nail every course. My new trick is to use a dab of PL Premium (my favorite glue) and "clamp" it with a 23ga micropinner.
I use a sharp utility knife for the corners. Tried the laminate trimmer idea, but tends to pull the grain apart.