While I am addressing this to “all” , specifically, I am looking for Dinosaur.
I recall a thread , or mention of stove pipe “flippers” that curtail the volume of heat/gases/smoke..that are typically installed in metal single wall stovepipe ..herafter known as SP.
I believe Dinosaur said they are not ( insert something here) needed or wanted, that all the flue gases are “set” by the air intake and not having a pipe damper is a GOOD thing.
I am borderline on a disagreement, but want to level the field here a bit..
I am in KY, (USA) and have a very simple, not high efficiency, stove kit from a 55 gal drum ( oh, how the eye’s will roll), and a plethora of well seasoned hardwoods..ok?
This stove, (of which is my second generation or so) has a built in collar for a 6″ flapper..came with it BTW. I use that to slow the burn ( in coordinance with the air intake vents) for “banking” purposes…and if in the event of a “runaway fire” or over heating, I can basically leave more smoke in the burn chamber, and cut off the new air by closing the intake ports.
My question is for those of us who have some of the newer, (or older) stoves is..do y’all ever use a pipedamper in the SP? Or just leave it at full throttle?
My experiance ( thanks david Thomas in AlasKa) in 20 (very) Odd yrs of burning wood is that the pipe damper is vital..I may be wrong.
What do the experts of wood combustion have to say?
Dinosaur, if I misquoted you..I apologive in advance, it just seems a recent thread brought this up..comere an shoot me..but bring some of tha CAnadien wood tha YOU burn 15 cords of..LOL
Any heads out there. that wanna relate?
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I was alway taught to burn the fire hot to warmn the place, open vent . and then at bedtime close the vent and slow burn, to maintain the warmth.
Thank you southern boy ( no offense) I agree.
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I'm certainly no Ed Hilton (expert), but I have a damper on my woodstove pipe that I have never used one bit in over 15 years and plan to remove next time I clean the system. Everything gets controlled by the amount of air I let into the stove.
Al Mollitor, Sharon MA
stove info?is it an after thought or a requested damper? Or did ya just happen to install it?my stove is a kit for a drum..Vogelsang..a pic can happen if needed..BTW..it's glowin red..LOL
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here's my two cents worth - OK,Maybe three centsThe pipe damper does help control the flow of flue gases.
In good highly efficient stoves, this may very well be un-needed, because the draft can be controled pretty well at the point of injection.But not all stoves are that tight, not do many tight stoves stay tight forever.When it is important to control that draft are in cases of chimney fire, overloading ( guests can do that to you), or windy nights.When the wind is blowing strong ( I know you probably never see more than a breeze in your neck of the country though) it amplifies the updraft. Even though the intake port is small, a stronger updraft will increase the velocity of the air intake, making for a greater volumn of O2 introduced to the flame and torching the armfull of carefully shepherded firewood in short time. Same princiople aas the blacksmith with a bellows.The pipe damper control helps to offset that nicely, adding safety and efficiency to the systemBut you already knew that, didn't you?;)
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yes I did thank you...(G)
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My stove is a small freestanding unit that I set in my fireplace. I added a damper to the pipe right on top of the unit, I guess because the salesman suggested it, but that was a long time ago. The damper is connected to about 6 feet of stainless flex pipe that goes up into the original masonry chimney. The stove has an air intake slide control that lets me slow the burn way down. I never felt the need for any more control. The stove also has a catalytic converter that's suposed to increase the efficiency.
I was planning to remove the damper because I never use it and it's getting rusty, but the safety considerations presented by Hube and others have me re-thinking that.
Al
<The damper is connected to about 6 feet of stainless flex pipe that goes up into the original masonry chimney>HUH?...flappres don't like that..FLex I.D is NOT condusive to a flapper..a trans fit MAYBE..but,,,no.The stove you have, ( I assume) should have a Collar, for the damper, NO way can ya mount a flapper in a flexi-steel ...no way.
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Exactly. The flpper is in it's own rigid steel sleeve, about 6" long. This sleeve is the transition from the stove to the flexible stainless.
Al
Been burning wood as auxiliary heat for most of the last 30yrs and agree with the majority here. For airtights no need for a flue damper. Everything else needs one.
Y'day was the first really cold day here, ie low 20s for a high, and as usual, we began the dance with the thermostat for the furnace. Set it to 76 during the day to keep some heat in parts of the house, 68 at night so we don't boil over. Our little stove won't make it through the night, but an 85 degree kitchen is a nice thing to walk into after being outside.
You most certainly can. Its called a 'sleeve ' damper.
no problem
They don't have those cast steel butterfly type dampers still available on the market for thelooks.
That salesmen knew what he was talking about. 2 dampers (in/out)are twice as safe as one, anytime.
Go for it, for the sake of $5 and 15 minutes to install, you'll be glad you did.
I have burnt wood for many years, airtight, 55 gal drums, wood/oil combinations and on all the wood stoves I have installed a damper. It gave me control over the air flow for the burn. Filling the stove up with wood and shutting it down just right, to keep the fire going as long and as hot as possible, was a well honed art. We would buy the damper separate punch a couple of holes in the pipe, usually the section above the stove, and install the damper.
AH HA..me too..this one came with the dampr in the flue collar..my old "SOTZ" never had that..I ALWAYS put one in..the flue pipe about a foot above the fire box ( I used old water heaters after the first drum got iffy)...The Sotz was better rig IMO..this one has issues. but for under a c-note, whos ta bitch?
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Damp it down. That thing sounds like its about to suck the furniture out of the house. It's not an airtight, so invented central heat.it's letting a lot more heat than is necessary go up the flue. Check your flue when the fire has burnt low and see if you're getting significant build up in the pipe. If you are quit using the damper. Experiment. A flue damper turned 1/4 of the way may be just the ticket.
I invented central heat.
Yo..I hadda move the pipe thermometer WAY up from the barrel...it kept reading "over fire" too close to the stove..the barrel glows when the ash door is open..but 90% of the time my stack temp is lower than 300 of them little circles I can't make..12' above the stove.The thing is the damper at the stove is TOO good..it drops my stack temps to , too low...read creosote..but the wood is way good..really good..gotta fan on it, duh..mebbe I FU'd that reading..
anyway, it's. doing all it can, and IF I damp it down ( the stack damper) with the feed ports open..it won't do the job..in other words, the PIPE is radiating a lot of heat, that damper..will kill a lot of stack temp. which I need...BTW Sam T sent me a cap..don't make one.
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Neither of my stoves has a damper. The large shop one gets a lot of use and is hardly air-tight. I see no reason for a damper. Both stoves have enough intake control to work fine.
Those seeds still on the way? I'm waitin' for an address. John's in Richmond now.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
UH, the seeds are here..iffin John and I hook up..I givem to him?I had a "mail splurge" lost a bunch o' addys..wanna re-send the snail mail in case he or I are whacked by xmas deals?plenty o' seeds..frezze dried..LOL
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Yea deal me in here .
On a barrel stove kit , it should offer a sealed door with gasket. Actually its a better addition to that stove to put a baffle 6 inches from the top inside and stopping 6 inches short of the front of that stove. That would set up the S flow and would give a higher residence time to burn the violates, providing a cleaner burn and giving out more btu per cord. In the event it was a sealed door , a damper isnt necesary . The damper is used in stoves that are not tight and draft too much air to sustain steady long burns. Ive had several stoves that needed a damper but even them they wouldnt hold a fire all night long. Of course in those days the house was likely to be drafty as it would be in some barns and shops that use the drafty stoves. So a few feeding per night was norm. The barrel with a smoke shelf is a good stove as long as its tight at the door. .
Tim Mooney
Tim, this is the "highre" end of the Vogelsang..gaskets on both the feed door and ash dump door...I recemented the gaskets due to it FALLING OUT of the channelMy old Sotz was no gasket and I think much more effiecient, one door, overlay style, stamped instead of cast steel..it was the only thing that survived the fire in my shop..but it got "lost" in the new move last yr.Drafty house huh? Ya shoulda asked IMERC..LOLI agree with you, the looser the door, the more important the damper control..THANKS
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Ah the drafty stoves and houses were when I was a lad . Im an old gent now . It was years ago.
Tim Mooney
Have heated with wood 30 yrs and installed and used a damper on all sorts of wood stoves. I think it helps control the burn, keeping as much heat in the stove to heat the mass and allowing you to shut 'er down to a slow roar..........watch that creosote producing temp......
Have a pipe thermostat on the shop stove, you can watch the temp rise fall with the dampening, don't much mess with the firebox vent until shutting it down for slow burn.
Only use it on the masonry heater to close off the flue after the burn is complete. There you want hot complete wood and gas burn.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Thanks and not to mention a Mas flue needs a LOT more heat to draw at first, and to stay clean.Cal, this was/is a sample of experiances ...yes, I BTDT with many stoves, just kinda wanted a perspective..yours is very similar to my past "involvements".I think, tho' that I am heating KY , with my outrageous "vented" house, and my calcs. have gone awry...funny huh?I have about 16' single wall, to 8' insul ( in the chase) but, the single wall is in an area that is NOT well inulated ( or in the warm envelope, of the house) therefore the use of single wall may not have been wise, BUT with more insulation and proper vapor stop..I might pull it off..Ya gott abe here to see it..and we are having unusual cold( as you are too)..wanna trade houses? LOL
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no thanks duane.
I'm 6 blocks from the bar, 5 blocks from the ice cream store, and 4 blocks for the church when they want to plant me.
And still in the woods. Gotta love it.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
C'est BON!remember,,,,,,"it aint life that sucks, it's thinking that life sucks.....you are my hero..wheres that bar from here?
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Well, from here to there plus 6 blocks more or less.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
walkin or stumbling?damn hi jack bastids..
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On most "normal" wood burning stoves ,the incoming air can be adjusted so it will 'slow' down the burn if its too intense.
But where are you IF the incoming adjustment damper goes on the plink?
Without that 'butterfly damper' you could be in heated trouble.
The butterfly or flipper damper is another safety factor when it comes to wood burning.
This type of damper costs approx $ 5. and takes 5 mins. to install.
Not too much for a little added safety.
That was the most sensible thing you have ever posted..good on ya!!!Keep it up, ya might find a girl. (G)
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" But where are you IF the incoming adjustment damper goes on the plink?"Answer - in deep, very deep, doo-doo!
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results are in...(mine)..ALL the fresco , twiddle the "out go"..to a balance of the heat percieved vs the heat lost vs the heat needed for more heat..(ya can't heat with a bed of coals..in my situ, at least.Perceived is the wonton destruction of forests...it always feels warm when ya have a planet in flames..what ya wind with is a comprimise..effieciency, vs. VALUE...not cost.What is the value? quality of the heat? and does the damper really affect that?points to ponder...............I am just getting there..it is warm.I'll do my best ....we need global warming once in awhile..LOL..22 outside, 50 inside,,we have progress, I love it.thanks,..and my ASPHAULTUM is like a rock at these temps!(REALLY...)
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22 outside, 50 inside,,we have progress, I love it.Here its 33 outside, 71 inside with no heat being on.
that's cold for Mobile..I knowESAD..enjoy it,,
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"But where are you IF the incoming adjustment damper goes on the plink?"
I agree. I had an airtight wood stove in our last house. One time I went dwn and the thing was REALLY hot. Couldn't seem to get it shut down.
Turns out part of the door gasket had come loose. The fire was too hot to be able to fix it right then.
I had purchased a damper but never got it installed. Sure would have been nice to have...
Good friends are hard to find. Especially in tall grass.
Interesting discussion. Boss's story made me run downstairs to check on my stove's temp! It's 4 above and dropping fast this evening.My 2 cents:I've burned a few non-airtight stoves (some--not ones I owned or in my house--that were just downright scary). They all had flue dampers which were certainly helpful to controlling the burn. The stove in my house is a Vermont Castings Encore, and the fastest way to knock down the temp. is to close the damper inside the stove, which diverts the exhaust through the catalytic combustor (which has the benefit of producing a lot more heat from the ignition of the actual smoke particulates and also of making your wood last a long, long time). This is by far the best system I've had experience with.As a side note, burning a full charge of extremely dry hardwood is going to produce some very hot temps no matter what. I would think you might try to use that wood before the moisture content drops below 20% or so. And I would also add that the overfiring danger should be more a matter of damaging the stove (warping the iron, damaging parts inside, etc.) than starting a chimney fire. Speaking as a firefighter, the chimney fire hazard can pretty much be avoided if you keep the flue clean through good burning practices and regular maintenance (i.e. not burning green wood, not burning cool smoldering files, etc.). That's assuming that your flue is properly lined and the chimney has the proper clearances from combustibles.Interestingly, sometimes the fastest way to drop the temp. in an overfiring situation is to stick a big grandaddy log in the firebox--the cool mass of the wood will absorb a lot of heat initially, and in the meantime the fuel that's roaring beneath it will consume itself. Definitely an judgement call--like all good woodburning techniques.
well, a little late to this discussion, but....
Duane, my Jotul came with a damper built in, that's about all I need to know....
hope you are hanging in there thru these challenging conditions - DW and I did it, and to a lesser extent the kids experienced it too - but we were younger, and it's a bitch using all your efforts trying to stay warm when there are things to do - -
is this the first day of winter?...
"there's enough for everyone"
hanging in? yeah..today I worked outside in a thermal shirt and a tee shirt..funny how one can adapt to 40 degrees and wind of 20mph when ya just got used to 7 degrees and windchill at or below zero.If I had some of the wifes extra body fat, I'd be toasty.OK, back to dampers..mine came with it, I use it..it does seem to "save" some heat from shooting right up the flue, albeit at a lesser burn rate..so..my conclusion is still that at partial settings (allowing for high winds, or other variables) it does produce more heat than wide open or fully shut.I just remember to open it fully right before I crack the door open to load a new round of burnables.Man I got some really sweet firewood..a kid around here is selling a 3/4 cord for 55 bucks. All well seasoned , split, delivered and dumped. Cherry, white oak, Hickory, and some Walnut..the last load was almost all cherry..smells good outside.Looks like the world is gonna go screwy again betwwen now and Xmas tho'...An being I am roofng with GreenCu..I may lose a few days.
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Hi Ed, It always seems to get very cold there when I leave on vacation. the lack of my warm personality leaves everyone cold, I guess.
;)
Another quick way to temper the fire is to lay on a damp newspaper. being damp, it will not burn off hot right waway, but smolder off slowly, leaving a layer of ash on the logs which slows the oxzgen feed to the fuel.
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Your right on.
And this situation has happened very often to wood burners.
You can much better contain a 'get-away' fire with a damper at both ends.
I understand the flue damper is present mainly to keep heat as opposed to air from leaving the stove. When you close the air inlet to the stove, close down the flue damper also at the same time.
no need to adjust the outgoing one at all. leave it fully open unti such time that you need to avoid overheating,etc.
If in a real emergency,shut them both off.
If air is not coming in ,it won't be going out.
I'm going to think about this some more, but at the moment I'm trying to decide, from a combustion dynamics point of view, what is the difference between a damper and a dead squirrel/bird/nest/etc in the flue?
Personally, I think you should servce squirrel well done, but find it is way too easy to overdo the bird {G}
I don't know about yours, but my church isn't a hotel for the holy, it's a hospital for sinners
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You ask.."what is the difference between a damper and a dead squirrel/bird"?
Well, a damper can move, but the dead squirrel/bird cannot as they are dead)
Edited 12/21/2004 6:49 pm ET by Hube
Well, there are some dampers that can move, but most of them stay right where you put them until you move them again.I can't prove that it's not a good idea to use a damper on the flue of a wood stove, but I just don't think it's a very good idea.I'm thinking of where someone gets a good fire going, then closes or almost closes the damper before heading off to bed.The fire will burning at a high rate, and will need a relatively high draft because of the amount of air it is consuming for the heat it is producing.Suddenly reduce the controlled draft through the flue and all of those hot gases have to go somewhere, so out they might go, into the room.Wood fires can produce pretty high to huge amounts of CO, so I just don't like the idea.I don't know about yours, but my church isn't a hotel for the holy, it's a hospital for sinners
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Bob, for clarificaation purposes. My damper is not a solid plate, it is perforated. it cannot stop the flue gases entirely.Now while we are at it, my coal burner in Pa. had a barometric damper which (I am sure you know) adds room air to the draft in the flue. I really don't like them or coal...what a messy, cantankerous, fuel.
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I remember them, but I still don't like the idea of choking off the flue, even partially.I can tell you from direct experience that a water heater flue partially blocked by a dead bird doesn't draft for beans.But, as I said, I don't know that it's "wrong" but it goes against everything I've learned about combustion, venting and carbon monoxide safety analysis. (Although I should note that one thing I've learned in those courses is a lot of this stuff is anti-intuitive! {G})I couldn't find my bird in the water heater flue pic, but hewre's another pic of the "benefits" of a flue damper on a natural draft furnace:I don't know about yours, but my church isn't a hotel for the holy, it's a hospital for sinners
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Your picture showed a gas furnace .
If there was a damper involved it was'nt clear from the posted picture.
Why would a damper be put in a gas furnace vent?
I'm trying to make some sense out of your post
Yes, it was a gas furnace, and it had a temp activated damper, on the horizontal run, just to the left of the elbow.
All of the rust on the inside of the cover, and the rust yoiu can see inside the drafthood - which is below the bottom edge of the draft hood - is from flue gases spilling out of the drafthood into the house.
The reason I posted it was that it shows what can happen to a combustion appliance when you put a damper on the flue: back drafting.The flue gases spilling into the house can (and in the case of a wood fire will) contain large amounts of carbon monoxide.The combustion and operating dynamics of a wood fire and gas furnace are different, of course, but everything I've learned about combustion and drafting tells me a damper on the flue is a bad, and potentially deadly, idea.I've taken several courses on carbon monoxide safety analysis and combustion analysis, and have tested hundreds of combustion appliances (although I have not tested any wood stoves) so I have some knowledge and experience in the field,I don't know about yours, but my church isn't a hotel for the holy, it's a hospital for sinners
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Edited 12/25/2004 8:15 am ET by Bob Walker
The whole idea of this butterfly damper is a safety feature if the incoming one ever gets jambed or whatever.
This damper is in an full open positionat all times, and if and when when you go to bed the fire should be controlled by the main incoming damper that is built into the stove. I might add that unless your very confident in the incoming main damper setting, and the type of wood you got in the stove, its not a very good idea to go to bed and leave it unattended in the first place. Again, this outgoing damper is only used in a critical time when all else fails.
It may never need to be used, but its there if its needed. Note; these dampers have an small opening in the center, so even when shut tight it will never completely cause a total blockage in the stack.
normally ,any good wood stove is mostly controlled by its own built-in type of air entry damper.
The addition of a butterfly damper on the out going stack is an extra safety feature.
Edited 12/21/2004 8:44 pm ET by Hube
I've burned a bunch of wood, but I'm still not sure what an airtight stove is???Ashley Automatomatic and Fisher Grandpa, I put a damper close to the clay thimble, never used it, but if there was a problem, I could.I'm hooking up a Vermont Castings Intrepid II next week, the damper is going in the same place.If you wanna use the Ashley or Fisher, let me know, delivery could be included in the already free price, ha,ha,ha... Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Free price? ya gots my ears perked up.I go to NC about every month or two..how far are you from say, Asheville..4hrs? I can be in A-ville in 5 from here.we gotta talk.
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Doode, Mrs 'Snort & I spent 2 VA mountain winters in a school bus...had a little 'snort in there, too. And, that was back when cold really meant something<G>3 - 3 1/2 hrs from Ashville...stop by & pickup Cloud.Click my name, I can't stand hearing about cold people...LOL Don't worry, we can fix that later!
not only did your ears perk up, but I saw your whiskers wiggle too,and that tail started wagging
;)
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