Okay, so I’ve got a client who is asking for a 16’ x 20’ rectangular gazebo. No wood floor, they will use pavers as the floor (to match the rest of their patio area). If possible, they only want 4 posts (one in each corner), and there would be no railing. So basically, just 4 posts with a hip roof structure.
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Anybody ever do one like this? With those dimensions, it seems 4 more posts would make a lot more sense. They’re just trying to keep this space as open as possible.
If only 4 corner posts, wouldn’t steel make more sense?
Please let me know your thoughts.
“Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words.” – St. Francis of Assisi
No, I didn’t vote for him; but he IS my president. I pray for the his safety, and the safety of his family every day. And I pray that he makes wise decisions.
Replies
Why is this in the tavern?
http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
good point.
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
No, I didn't vote for him; but he IS my president. I pray for the his safety, and the safety of his family every day. And I pray that he makes wise decisions.
new doctrine?
I'm not flippin' you off.........just counting cubits
Because that's where he posted it...Something is only impossible... Until it isn't...You are always welcome at Quittintime
'Cause we're gonna use the gazebo for beer? ;-0Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
... because you never know who just might belly up to the bar.
I got an email from Joe Wood with a link to some of his work. In fact, he makes a structure in the exact dimensions my client was asking for. Even sells plans for them.
I thought you guys might appreciate his craftsmanship.....
http://woodsshop.com/Azumaya/16x20/16x20.htm
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
No, I didn't vote for him; but he IS my president. I pray for the his safety, and the safety of his family every day. And I pray that he makes wise decisions.
Very nice - Thanks.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
I've long admired Joe's work. Wish he'd post some more of that here.Now, what size copper pipes are you going to use for this project?'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
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No copper pipes for this project, but if there were, I'd probably go with... :)
I did wrap the fascias with copper though, the homeowners love it.
I'll try to post some photos tonight.
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
No, I didn't vote for him; but he IS my president. I pray for the his safety, and the safety of his family every day. And I pray that he makes wise decisions.
I've done a carport with similar dimensions. Oversize everything, use LVL's, tie it all down with lots of steel. I think we had 6x6 PSL or LVL posts, wrapped with Azek, sitting on concrete-filled stone-wrapped piers and giant cast-in post bases.
just curious.....how large would the posts have to be to resist racking, wind and maybe snowload........
the reason I'm asking is I'd like to plan a gazebo here but we are subject to some really bad winds in the winter months......I'm considering hexagonal or octagonal, four would make me leery of the stability
I'm not flippin' you off.........just counting cubits
Edited 6/9/2009 4:27 pm by oldbeachbum
4x4s would be adequate but would look spindly. 6x6 look a lot batter and open up different options for knee braces. They 4x4s would handle the snow load OK but the foundation they sit on must consider the loads. How those post are connected to the beams for the roof to sit determines how it will handle any racking. Knee braces mounted about a 1/3 of the way down the posts (if possible) ought to handle the wind loading.
It's pretty much a hay shed with no sides.
Steve I put up a Gazebo like your are mentioning near a lake for a guy bunches of years ago. I used 6 X 6 posts because they looked better. Additionally I had a steel guy make me 8, 5-1/2" X 36" by 1/4" plates with holes that bolts could go through. I sunk them 18" into concrete piers leaving 18" sticking up as post anchors. I used threaded rods and nuts to space the two pieces in each pier 5-1/2" apart. I let the threaded rods extend 3" outside the plates on both sides in the pier for anchoring the plates to the pier. This gave me some lateral bracing at the base. Additional I put diagonal bracing at the top of each Columbia. Wind load will be your biggest issue. Keeping it from blowing over.
I worked on 6 similar structures with hip roofs. I recall 8x8 posts ,do not recall the spacing but I do know there were more than one in each corner. 4x8 were morticed into the post and header on a 45° on each post rach way .The angle braces were draw pinned.
Do you have an architects drawing and a permit? Both will help you determine what is neccesary for a safe structure.
mike
I may just be in a cranky mood today (Rained all day when I needed to get foundation work done) but the ONLY reply I can come up with is simply to advise you to let a architect or at least a experienced designer, design this please.
If you do not know how it should be framed already you sure are not qualified to design it correctly or the most esthetically pleasing way. It may seem like over kill to hire an architect to design a simple gazebo but you know there is something to be said for leaving somethings to those who know what they are doing and are good at what they do. Then building it will be as easy as following the plans. And you will get a nice set of drawings to submit to you town building department with a engineers stamp on it. Not only will you be sure it will be safe and up to code it will look good too.
Nothing I hate worse then builder "that should hold it" designs that although may work esthetically leave much to be desired. (no offense intended to builders that are also good designers I know there are many out there)
Charge the customer a design fee and pay an expert.
That is what will be done. I just posted this here in the tavern to get some input from everybody. There's a wealth of knowledge here. Plans will be done in CAD and permit pulled.
We'll probably do the roof structure in steel down on the ground and lift it into place with our crane.
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
No, I didn't vote for him; but he IS my president. I pray for the his safety, and the safety of his family every day. And I pray that he makes wise decisions.
Edited 6/10/2009 11:46 am ET by SteveInCleveland
Wrapped up this project last Thursday. It turned out very nicely. I'll be sure to post some photos. I was able to utilize four 6" x 10" posts (one in each corner).
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
No, I didn't vote for him; but he IS my president. I pray for the his safety, and the safety of his family every day. And I pray that he makes wise decisions.
Congrats. I'm looking forward to seeing some pictures and details of how you ended up deciding to build it.
Thanks. I'll try to upload some photos tonight.
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
No, I didn't vote for him; but he IS my president. I pray for the his safety, and the safety of his family every day. And I pray that he makes wise decisions.
Last night I uploaded some photos of that recent project.
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
No, I didn't vote for him; but he IS my president. I pray for the his safety, and the safety of his family every day. And I pray that he makes wise decisions.
That's a nice looking roof Steve! The copper's a very nice touch :-)What type of lumber is that, it's so white.Tell us about those beams (6x10?) and did you have that span calc'd?
How are the beams attached to the posts, can't quite tell. Are they let-in to the posts at all?http://woodsshop.com/
Had the framing lumber delivered from the local Lowe's. I was all impressed with the quality. Did not have to exchange any bad pieces.
All beam to column connections are bolted with grade 8. I've attached a few close-up photos of this. We left the tops of the beams two inches above the tops of the columns so that we could install brackets at the top of the columns after all initial beam to column connections were made.
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
No, I didn't vote for him; but he IS my president. I pray for the his safety, and the safety of his family every day. And I pray that he makes wise decisions.
Steve,Very nice work.Thanks for sharing.Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Thanks. We almost went with shake shingles. I was pleased with how nice the asphalt architectural shingles looked when I was done with the project.
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
No, I didn't vote for him; but he IS my president. I pray for the his safety, and the safety of his family every day. And I pray that he makes wise decisions.
Here are a couple of final project photos with all of the landscaping completed as well......
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
No, I didn't vote for him; but he IS my president. I pray for the his safety, and the safety of his family every day. And I pray that he makes wise decisions.
really NICE!View Image
The Woodshed Tavern Backroom
The Topics Too Hot For Taunton's Breaktime Forum Tavern
Thanks. The homeowners love it, so that's a plus.
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
No, I didn't vote for him; but he IS my president. I pray for the his safety, and the safety of his family every day. And I pray that he makes wise decisions.
How many mammograms would the money for that retreat have paid?
Terrible waste of precious resources, as well.
Forget that it is a beautiful example of what humans can do with comfort, art and profit motive can create.
Nice place!A La Carte Government funding... the real democracy.
Thanks!
The homeowner dropped his kid's health insurance to pay for it. ;)
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
No, I didn't vote for him; but he IS my president. I pray for the his safety, and the safety of his family every day. And I pray that he makes wise decisions.
Visually, four columns would have to be farly large in cross-section - like 10-20 inches. Structurally, the vertical load is no problem - it's the racking that's the issue - each post is basically a vertical cantilever, with the ground providing the resisting moment.
I tend to use hollow composite columns over a concrete and steel "plug" that goes into the ground and then up 3-4' into the column.
Here's a thread - http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=105500.1
of this -
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Forrest
Terrific. I'll certainly take a look at that thread! Thank you.
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
No, I didn't vote for him; but he IS my president. I pray for the his safety, and the safety of his family every day. And I pray that he makes wise decisions.
Do you have some way of generating a sketch of this? In my mind it would look odd to have only four posts. As far as "open" goes, what does another set of posts really matter?
Then again, I'd wear stripes and plaids if my wife would let me.
One way to beef up the corners while leaving the spans open would be to use multiple posts in each corner.
Make 'em square or make em round. Depends on the look desired and/or the house details if overall coordination is a goal.
Lemme see if I can hunt down a photo...
Well, scale-wise this isn't exactly what I was thinking of, but it's the first thing that came up on google. To me this is a little skimpy:
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This one's a little fancier...I think this is one of Lawrence's as a matter of fact.
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The next one is Lawrence's too. I was looking for one with this post configuration but with three round posts.
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Do check out Lawrence's site. He has some purdy stuff.
Some great ideas. Thanks for your efforts!
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
No, I didn't vote for him; but he IS my president. I pray for the his safety, and the safety of his family every day. And I pray that he makes wise decisions.
Damn, you beat me to it! Was was sitting here reading through the posts about fat posts thinking, "why not use multiple posts at the corners?" Put three in each corner in an L layout 24" apart oc and not only is the scale/look better, but you also close the spans considerably (that 20' problem becomes 16', which is easy) and it becomes easy to incorperate brackets to further resist racking.Seems like a no-brainer to me unless the owner is dead set against it, in which case I would prefer to see something fabricated with steel.
It's about time I beat someone to something!<g>Too many times I compose a post, and by the time I get to post it three other have beaten me to the punch.I either need to type faster or type less. Or maybe both.Or just do what I normally do. Sit back and lurk.
There is a 20 x 20 4 post shelter in the park near me.
All welded steel structure, 6" sq tube posts, 3x5 roof panel supports, 4 4x6 tube hip beams, roof load held by tension in the peripheral 6x6 edge roof panel supports.
Okay, so the project I had asked advice about was completed last week. I flew into <!----><!----><!---->Harrisburg<!---->, <!---->PA<!----><!----> for this one. The project was about an hour from <!----><!---->Harrisburg<!----><!---->.
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We ended up using 6” x 10” x 3/8” thick aluminum for the columns and the beams. We sprayed them with a self-etching primer in the shop before taking them to the site. The landscapers will be wrapping the bottom few feet of the columns with stone and some sort of cap treatment.
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I did not want the concrete to degrade the columns at all, so we wrapped the bottom of the columns (outside & inside with weatherwatch). I was pleased with how that turned out (it stuck really well). When climbing around on the roof, the structure did not have any discernable movement. It is quite strong.
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We set the two front posts first using a fast setting concrete. Then we worked off of those posts to double-check everything for square.
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The front and back beams were 19’ 10” long, the two side beams are 15’ long. So the final dimensions are 16’ x 19’ 10”, with a 24” overhang on all sides. The beams and columns were marked and drilled for connecting with bolts.
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We glued and screwed 2 x 6’s to the top of the beams and then nailed our roof rafters into those 2 x 6 top plates. We settled on a 5/12 roof pitch.
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To save time, and for the initial figuring for lumber, and prior to doing any AutoCAD drawings, I sometimes utilize a website called http://www.blocklayer.com/roof . It’s free and an easy way to layout your hip roofs in your initial planning stages. I’ve attached a photo file of the roof layout for you to see.
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I precut and stacked the ridge, the common rafters, the hips, and all of the creepers prior to installing any of them. Then we started with the layout of the ridge and the common rafters. From there, we installed the hips, then all of the creepers. Everything was very square, so nailing in the all of the roof framing went very smoothly.
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The homeowner had a 30’ length of 24” wide copper flashing in his garage. Another contractor had recently done two small copper roofs over the home’s rear bay windows. I ripped that 24” wide copper into three 8” wide strips. I cut those pieces into manageable 10’ lengths so I could fit them into the brake, and bent them to fit around the fascia boards. The homeowner asked that I face nail the copper as he wanted to see the copper nailheads. In the end, the homeowner loved the look. It kind of ties the pavilion into the house a little more. In a couple of photos, you can see the copper on the home’s bay windows. I needed a total of 88 linear feet, and I had 90 linear feet. :)
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Great property; neat old house. The original section is an old log cabin. The “new” addition (the stone part with 18” thick walls) has a cornerstone dated 1817.
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The painters will be spraying the visible rafters and roof sheathing. I’ll get some photos when that is all complete. There will also be a small waterfall and pond in the area adjacent to the pavilion, on the hillside where you see a large tarp and vinyl fencing.
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Thanks again to everybody. As always, lots of great suggestions from the Breaktime crew.
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The inspector asked when we could build one in his backyard!
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
No, I didn't vote for him; but he IS my president. I pray for the his safety, and the safety of his family every day. And I pray that he makes wise decisions.