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Affordable Comfort Conference will be in Cincinnati this year, April 15-20. As always this is the first, best, and biggest opportunity to learn about the future of residential building.
The focus is on habitability: Safer, Healthier, More Durable, More Comfortable, More Energy Efficient building strategies. Dozens and dozens of sessions. The first time I attended years ago, I learned more in a week about building than I had in the previous 10 years. You learn to avoid all those costly mistakes they show on the national news, and how to make huge money fixing your competitors' screw ups. (no kidding there)
All the big time presenters come to share their deep thoughts. Of course Lstiburek, Tooley, Pearce, Howard, Brennan, will all do their thing. But BT readers will also recognize the names of John Staube, Bill Rose, and Rob Susz. I've got a few sessions too, so hold on to those tomatoes. Also coming down from the Great White North, Tony Woods, Skip Hayden, and Don Fugler. Always excellent. The scientists and engineers pour out of the national labs looking to enlighten you with their charts and graphs. About a dozen doctors are ready to scare you silly with their bug, mold, and rodent photos. (((yeck))) Henry Gifford will snap your ribs with a hundred stupid ways to install a boiler. And Rana Belshe from Wyoming does the best Splintergroupie imitation on the planet. Yes there will be grilled tofu along with the 200+ major brains at your service.
You've got your hot roofs, your cold roofs, and I even see a session on cool (?) roofs. There's advanced new construction and renovations. The Canadian boys are handling ice dams and condensation (((my fav))). I'm doing cathedrals and screwy buildings. I've seen Staube's insulation show before. It kills. Joe is doing a thing called "Water Management". I see something on lighting that looks interesting. And a bunch of super-successful contractors are going to spill their secrets on hiring, marketing, and partnerships. Wow, "What to do about Stinky Basements and Crawlspaces" looks appealing too. Your choice of 12 different tracks every day. The volume of content is unbelievable.
There's plenty of socializing, a cool trade show where you can find all that stuff your clients have been reading about in the back of FHb, and architectural tours of the city and university. But wait. There's more. Mention this ad, and I'll take you to out to the legendary Zymergy Session that never makes it onto the official agenda. Ha ha ha.
So check out the website. Write me if you have questions. And get on your reservations for the low prices.
Seeing you there, Fred
*When does a message about an upcoming event turn into a sales pitch and ego trip?When FreddyL does it.FreddyL you have no shame...We have an unwritten rule here about using this board to sell a product or a service. Buy advertising if you want to sell and leave this board alone. Gabe
*Gabe, give it a rest. Some of the i "We" are interested in hearing what Fred has to say. Thanks. Joe H
*Then email yourselves all the info you want to digest. You tell me the difference between this cheapskates method of selling his services and Richards.If you can show a difference, I'll back off.Gabe
*I attended an Affordable Comfort conference two years ago in Saratoga Springs, NY. It was an eye-opening experience, and one that I recommend to anyone interested in learning about how houses work.Andy
*Don't get me wrong, you can learn from this conference as well as any other.What my beef remains the hypocritical way some people use this board to sell.Let us not forget that Fred L left a while back when his theories were being blown out of the water and he couldn't defend them.That's the weakness of "Sophism" it can't stand up to fact.http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/gallery/rhetoric/terms/sophism.htmlSo my offer still stands....show me the difference and I'll let him spread his brand of BS uninterupted.Gabe
*I'm waiting for one to be held closer, like Chicago, Milwaukee or Minneapolis. Seems like they already had one in Ohio. About the other thing--I'm glad Fred's back. I hope this time we don't have to get into wars. Unless I'm mistaken, it wouldn't be selling if he didn't get the money--I think Fred has a strong connection about the event but does he actually get money if we attend?MD
*Funny, I remember it differently. It seemed to me that Fred's detractors had run out of ammo and were resorting to personal attacks, of which Fred tired. Andy
*I guess it depends on your original point of view and your experience.Kinda like the battles over gun control. Both sides always see each debate as victories.However the point here is selling. How can taunton allow one person to sell a service and condemn another?Most of us respect that rule, why can't he?Gabe
*Gabe,I think you need some time off. Relax. Get a massage, take a walk in the rain. Hug a tree. Whatever it takes.
*Bob, I don't get any more relaxed than this. Life is good.I also don't forget the insults that this person hurled while hiding behind mom's apple pie.When my bs meter goes off, I don't ignore it.Gabe
*Gabe, i appreciate your Sophism site, esp the last section:The Rebirth of SophismWith the emergence of the new view of rhetoric, there has been a return to many of the philosophical beliefs of the Sophists, particularly to the belief that truth or knowledge is created, not discovered, through the knowledge-making process that occurs when people communicate with each other. Despite the great efforts of Plato, Sophism still remains with us and it should be noted that Plato in his attack of the Sophists was using the major tool of Sophism, rhetoric.
*Trust Gabe to get it wrong -- he obviously couldn't tell his Protagoras from his elbow!
*Minneapolis in 2004.
*It's flattering that you would compare me to Plato but I must decline.Gabe
*Trust Ian to be so full of arrogance to not get it.Gabe
*Dear Ian,Very funny. It took me two reads, but trusting your sense of humor, I mouthed the words and it clicked. Nice. But now about the larger issue of getting it wrong:::philosophical mode on::You know, I've toyed abstemiously with all the "isms". Nililism always had a lot of appeal in an infantile way. There were long periods of consumerism and humanism. But the syncretism was too frustrating. So I just turned into a space agent. Lately I had seen myself becoming very comfortable with eclecticism; empiricism and theosophism being too extreme. Now however, this sophism thing has caught my eye.As a whole, sophists were generally not theoretical in thinking, but practical. They relied upon wisdom tested and gained by experience.What's not to like about that? I'm looking at a whole new direction in life.::end philosophical mode::So even though my poor little public service announcement turned into this completely predictable clash of hatred and cowardice, I still can learn something.With optimism (?), Fred
*Mea culpa for having a chuckle at your PSA's expense, Fred. I hope to become more sophisticated.Do you know anything about this Ouellette guy who's speaking at the conference? I ran into the name when i was doing a search last fall for a wood allergy i had/have. I really want to like cellulose, but my first brush with allergies left me alarmed over what can happen when cellulose goes bad. If you have a name for the latest and greatest in home allergens--if not Ouellette--i'd be grateful.(Sorry if this is repetitive; i wasn't here for the Vapor Wars.)
*Didn't think it would take too long before you're arrogance would show through again.Andy may be letting his friendship cloud his perception of the real you but I remember your insulting mockery and your lack of substance when you were backed up against the wall.How long Freddy before you delete all your posts again and run with your tail between your legs?GabeGabe
*Dear SG,more sophisticated. You mean like---naw, I'll stop while I'm ahead. Life is short, but there's always time for a chuckle. (((Damn, I've slipped into humorism. I'll need that later when I see Rana. Susz types fast.)))Well, I have resigned myself to seeing every thread I post to become polluted. This is what happened in the Vapor Wars. (you get credit for the name) After a while, just being here ruins the discussion for everybody. ::bangs head on 2" solid Brazilian red granite desktop::Funny you should mention Dr. John. Yes, we're quit cozy. I envy him in beautiful Madison, but he has strong VT connections. We're fellow UVM alumni too. He's fabulous to see in action, so generous, so erudite, and he knows the entire environmental health scene. So in April, I'll make a query about this over cocktails and he'll no doubt point me directly to the exact brain. That will hopefully lead to another round of drinks. I'm extraordinarily adept at this form of information retrieval and happy to perform the service for you.Bear in mind that there's lots of cellulose going around. Mac Pearce does a wonderful presentation on mold. He makes the point that mold is everywhere and we should be grateful. It destroys all the dead plant matter in our world and makes new life possible. Then he says: "Unfortunately, our houses are made up primarily of dead plant matter." And that would be cellulosic materials.Even a lump of solid lumber can make someone sick. You grind it up to produce a thousand times the surface area, and more people get sick. You soak it and let the little beasts grow, and even more people get sick. Then you get guys like me to wipe out the natural ventilation in all the house shells, and you've got a real epidemic. Now we've arrived at the point where I can start to earn a descent living. But if you're talking about cellulose insulation fiber, that's another question.Just about ready to plant peas, Fred
*Mr Engel,
"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle
*Gabe good friend,
"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle
*joe.. missed you..u gonna come up to reckos and meet some good people ?
*God, I hate this. I thought we were all about sharing ideas, brainstorming and solving problems. Now we are back to name calling? Lets not go there. I want to know why you do things the way you do, not why you don't like someone. Please go find a private room to excersise your egos, only bring your ideas here. Andy, please keep your finger on the delete key.
*Dear Bill,Don't you get it? This is exactly what Andy wants!--------------------------------------------------The tension was thick enough to cut with a knifeWhat could I do?Gabe Gabe was nervous,Joe was blue.--------------------------------------------------Well this IS an epic occasion. We should preserve it for posterity. Group photo!Come on Joe get in here. Gabe stop fidgeting. Andy, here's the camera, you take the shot. Andy...ANDY..........ANDY Where is that guy? Ok, we'll use the self timer. Here we go. Settle down boys. Settle. Everybody say FIE BURR GLASzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz_click
*I was all but drummd out of an energy seminar because I exposed (with 2 humbly asked questions) a lot of BS. I am all for energy conservation, etc. but not at the expense of our natural resources. Somehow, some of these bozo's don't get that.I don't know if this Fred guy is like that or not. I only speak in general. Gabe, I am a rep for a long distance service. Am seriously thinking about starting a thread promoting my 3.9 cent per minute rate with no monthly fee and 6 second increment blling.Think it would last?Or do you have to be one of "them" to get by with advertising here?
*Dear Wet,Well how do you do? If you still have those questions, you're welcome to put them to me. Think you have a problem with wacked out extremists? I've actually been boo'ed during a presentation to "green" builders.Since you chose to amplify Gabe's bogus point about me advertising here, you get to hear more about Affordable Comfort. It is a huge non-profit organization dedicated to conservation and eliminating poverty housing. Although I choose not to be on their board or any committees, I am very proud to volunteer and be associated with this noble cause. Nobody makes money off this.About a million man-hours, go into the annual conference. Funding comes from a large number of government and private sources. If I work like hell, maybe I can be a few hundreths of a percent of that effort. All the presenters are volunteer. We pay our own way to the conference, pay for lodging, pay for meals, drinks, transfers and lose that time we would normally have to make our livings. Altogether it costs me about 5 grand a year to volunteer. But to say that I go uncompensated would not be honest. Simply preparing for my sessions is a valuable learning experience for me. I've gained a huge group of friends, have access to all their knowledge, words, and encouragement. This has put me years ahead and made my business life lucrative and secure. But it's more than business. For half of my life, I led a deluded Scroogesqe existence. More than any other element, Affordable Comfort taught me that giving is more important than hoarding. Someday you may understand how that translates into my efforts here.You should know that I've made this announcement several other years. Gabe and Joe always pollute it with personal attacts. Readers at BT who have accepted the invitation to attend ACC have thanked me. If you went, you would thank me too.Cordially, Fred
*My only problem is with spouting off crap that does not add up. You have to look at the whole picture. Many energy folks miss that point and will use 10 units of energy to save 2. It is stupid.
*Mr. Lugano,
"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle
*Dear Wet,I often make that very point myself. Tuesday night, I was out till 10 trying to convince a photovoltaic enthusiast of this folly.Everything I put out is field and laboratory tested and easily defensible. Gabe and Joe don't like it, and that's why you see the histrionics. But I answer all other questions. When you see me spouting off crap that does not add up, call me on it. You may be right, or you may be wrong. We can discuss it without becoming blood enemies. That's where Joe and Gabe lost it. It's really important for them to show that they know everything. Get in the way of that, and watch them trash BT. That's what we see here.Regards, Fred
*While you were beating your chest with the virtue of your own hypocrisy, Mr Lugano was insulating your home....For which I paid. Securely,Andy
*Joe, Gabe, Fred: i don't know and i don't give a crap what happened before. Let it go. Let's talk cellulose, Fiberglas, foam...sawdust and acorns, for that matter. I've got an old house to insulate and i don't want to get it wrong. Always ready to listen to another idea and make up my own mind, but the effing static is making me crazy, it's been winter a long time, and i'm just itching (might be the FG) to go Helen on you guys.ANDY, if you don't mind the bloodshed, i've got some real beauts of abbatoirs i could link to...
*Oh the static...RK total bullshit.Affordable Comfort... NON PROFIT!near the stream of pollution,ajLets stay on topic or jokes and off the friiggin attacks yaa sand box weenies.
*FWIW, I'm not a big fan of FredL and have strongly disagreed with him in the past, probably going beyond the bounds of the forum rules.OTOH, I have absolutely no objection to his post about the Affordable Comfort meetings.I do have some strong objections to some of the reponses to him that have been posted here. The re-appearance of one poster in particular is, IMHO, a sad event.Finally, "My dog's bigger than your dog,My dog's bigger than yours.My dog's bigger, he's stronger he's faster,My dog's bigger than yours."
*I hesitate to join the fray, because it seems only to egg on the participants.Still, I gotta say itJust grow up, everyone. You're wasting my time with your juvenile chest-thumping.
*FredL, Thank you for your posting. Frenchy
*
"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle
*send me a link or info to find out more on what you are espousing.I am always trying to stay informed and on the cutting edge of this stuff, although I readily admit I am far from either. No building method is sacred to me. I almost gave up my straw bale house plans because it has become so mainstream. BUT...I do have a pretty good BS detector. I would like tsee your stuff. I won't atack but will ask some hard questions. If you prefer to do it via e-mail it would make me happier yet.I am at [email protected]. Who are you and what are your credentials? You can answer privately too if you wish. I just want to know who I am talking to.Thanks!Oh yeah, I was actually asked to leave that seminar. Wasn't arguing or anything. Simply asked 2 questions which took down the fraudulant house of cards the guy was spouting off.One of them was that electric was a much more enviromentally friendly AND COST EFFECTIVE way to heat a house. Yeah right. I just asked if this took into consideration the enviromental costs of producing the electricity and where could I get price comparisons that proved his second point about the cost effectiveness. I was told the enviromental costs of producing the electricity had nothing to do with this class and that if I couldn't see it was cheaper to heat a house with electricity I was stupid, ignorant, or both.He then claimed it was much cheaper to heat the DHW in OUR area with OUR electric rates than to use fossil fuels. His point was the horrible efficiency of standard gas water heaters. They ARE HORRIBLE! But it still costs lees dollars here to heat with a fossil fuel. Crunch the numbers anyway you want and it still comes out that way. I asked "that is completely opposite from what I have seen. but I truly want to learn. Can you please point me to where that can be proven to me?"He laughed derisively and told me he wished I would just leave since I was too old school to understand the new way of doing things. PURE BS!!!!I am not saying YOU are like this. I just want to learn and know.
*Dear Wet,I appreciate your interest. Pick a card.
*Dear Frenchy,You are kind to say so. My memories of you are dim, but I think I like you.Have a picture on me, Fred
*I have devised a few questions after having read all the nonsensical arguments reverberating around in this site. The first of which being; how exactly did all the name calling become necessary? Gabe stated that it was unfair to allow one person a chance to solicit a product and deny other members the same right. Whether this argument was valid or otherwise, is really not the issue. The issue I see is, rather than just saying Fred believed he was sharing the upcoming event with the general public, he felt the need to attack other members. My next question concerns the ban that was placed on both Gabe and my father (Joe Fusco). I feel that Andy acted as if he was on a power trip. My father?s comment about Fred insulating Andy?s house was not a lie. Fred DID insulate Andy?s house. As for the comment about Andy having paid for it....I find it irrelevant as well. My fathers point was not to imply that the deal was shady, but rather, the reason as to why Andy takes Fred?s side. It really boils down to this... If it turns out the person who insulated your house is not as competent as you would like and it shows, you find yourself in a dilemma. Do you admit that you were not intelligent enough to hire a competent person, (thereby making yourself seem a little dumb), or do you defend him hoping no one will notice your own lack of judgement. So was the ban placed because Andy could not find a solution that left him feeling good? Interesting idea, no?
*Sorry, Danielle, but I don't find validity in your thoughts. Several years ago, on another bulletin board, Fred shared his ideas and information with me, at no benefit to himself. We were adding onto our house and were concerned about energy costs. We considered his ideas, along with others', and decided to try Fred's. He lives 3000 miles from us - we used a local company and Fred was not involved in any way. After increasing the size of our house by 25%, our energy bills went down. We were very satisfied with Fred's suggestions. He responded to my (many) questions patiently and politely.I am sorry that Andy found it necessary to ban your father and Gabe. I am sure that it had very little to do with just this thread.
*danielle: now it's up to u to do NYC proud... are u up to it ?we'll all miss joe and gabe.. even the ones that didn't like them will miss them...tell your dad to email me.. and welcome to BT
*Danielle,I think you've gotten confused. Andy is not disappointed with his insulation. He likes it. I've been in the house, and it was practically a model of how a house should be insulated. I can't remember a warmer, quieter newly constructed home.It's good to stick up for your dad. I didn't know anything about Gabe and Joe being banned. Looks like they're posting. But in this case, they came in circling Fred like a school of sharks...Say hi to your dad,MD
*Ok I would like to clear up a few things in this post. To Lisa- I am happy you were statisfied with the method you chose, however, that doesn't mean that standard insulating procedures would not have worked just as well, IF DONE CORRECTLY, which was the impetus of the argument between Fred and my father. And then Fred resorted to name calling. And as to the validity of my thoughts, they are mine and therefore valid to me. I did not attack your thoughts and call them "invalid" therefore please to not attack mine. I would love to here differences in opinions, but I will get defensive at having my thoughts deemed invalid. To Mad Dog- I think you are a little confused. I never said Andy was "dissapointed" with Lugano's work. But i do think Andy is aware of the fact that standard procedures done correctly would have performed just as well . And as to my father "circling" has anyone in this forum ever seen him circle anything. He just nails it to you. And his points were accurate in regards to the information he stated, and he didn't call anyone names. To Mike- Thanks. How am I doing thus far.ps. Dad says hello
*danielle.. ur doing good... your dad is a run-right-at-'em-guy... i'm not...i'd rather see if i can achieve a consensus... i make it a game...you can develop your own interpersonal methods of dealing with conflict.. try different things until you get a style of dealing with the world that suits you...me, vinegar is fun but honey catches more flys.....sorta like the two styles of your mayors... giuliani vs. bloomberg... take your pick...
*Our home had been insulated by professionals with fiberglass in a remodel two years earlier. I have no reason to believe it was done incorrectly.You have every right to deem your thoughts valid. And I have every right to disagree. And that's how we present opposing points of view, and how we learn from one another. I do not attack. When discussions around here turn into nasty arguements, I wander off. Life is too short.I still find no merit in this: "If it turns out the person who insulated your house is not as competent as you would like and it shows, you find yourself in a dilemma. Do you admit that you were not intelligent enough to hire a competent person, (thereby making yourself seem a little dumb), or do you defend him hoping no one will notice your own lack of judgement. So was the ban placed because Andy could not find a solution that left him feeling good?"Do you really believe this to be the truth?
*Danielle,The most interesting thing about the banning of Gabe and Joe is this:Although several people have said they will miss them (myself included) no one is posting in outrage over what has happened. This calm is most unusual, given what's been done. There is only one explanation. As much as many will miss them, virtually everyone here understands why it was done.I enjoyed most of Joe's posts, and I'm sorry that he is no longer here, but he did call people names, usually Bozo. That you are here to defend him is admirable and honorable, but you will be more persuasive if you avoid obvious mistakes like:> he didn't call anyone namesRich Beckman
*Danielle;Welcome to the board. Defending your dad is admirable, but I think you need to brush up on your defense tactics."And as to the validity of my thoughts, they are mine and therefore valid to me. I did not attack your thoughts and call them "invalid" therefore please to not attack mine. I would love to here differences in opinions, but I will get defensive at having my thoughts deemed invalid"I think you have to distinguish between thoughts which are feelings (i.e., emotions) and thoughts which are rational discourse.Feelings are entirely subjective and thus are not subject to any measures of validity.Rational discourse, however, should be objective and thus may be objectively evaluated by the rules of logic, persuasiveness, and the other "rules" of rhetoric. The "validity" to you of your incursion into rational dscourse is irrelevant. That discourse may properly be measured by objective standards.Name calling: "and he didn't call anyone names."What do you call these message snippets?08:25pm Mar 2, 2002 EST "While you were beating your chest with the virtue of your own hypocrisy, Mr Lugano was insulating your home. . ."08:48pm Mar 2, 2002 EST "There is never a reason for you to engage "these" people in a dog fight. Dogs will always and simply be dogs."Those are 2 of your father's messages, with their times and dates of posting.I suppose "name calling" is a bit subjective; to me both of those comments fall under that rubric.Please don't get into a "someone else started the name calling." Doesn't matter who started it. It's wrong to call some one names. Your father did that.The crux of the matter seems to be that your father and Fred have a long history of acrimony; your father apparently disagrees with Fred's ideas on insulating houses.For some reason your father seems to have a problem with anyone agreeing with Fred's approach. That problem manifests itself in ways which are not accepted by the powers that run the board.BTW, tactics and stragedy are facsinating fields of study. Very subective at one level, but subject to rational analysis at another.Machiaveli was one of the first great published commentators on tactics and stragedy. His observations are still considered valid by many.One of his most important rules is: "Never wound a king." I believe the unspoken conclusion is: if your going to take one on, be sure you kill him.You might mention that tidbit of wisdom to your dad.Long Live King Andrew I! (That's a joke.)
*good points bob, i always assumed ( the "ass" between u & me ) that anyone who turned the attacks from their fellow posters to the chief moderator of the board had a death wish.. justice, or the "sense of justice", may burn brightly in our bellies... but you do have to pick your fights...or it becomes the charge of the light brigade...
*Welcome Danielle. My first impression is that you are one great Daughter. My second thought is... Stay around! Try posting in some of the fun topics in the woodshed which is where we go to R & R and chat less about 2x4s and more about whatever... like being library nymphs... Gotta like anyone with that handle...near the stream 180 mile upstream of yaa,ajOh and as to your pop... we slugged it out as much as any and of late seemed to be friends which I really think we are anyway. Joe... I will miss you. I think you should be allowed back if you promise to just stay off any off FredLs posts since you really just can't stand the guy enough to cut him any slack whatsoever. Love and peace to you both.
*Fred... back on topic... Great thread. I am all for This convention... just wish I had gone to the Saratoga one Andy! Why didn't someone tell the guy from Lake George about it!? I hang out in Saratoga half the week... just played volleyball there last night...and will again Wednesday as I do year round. There is a little hole in the wall eatery called Esperantos that anyone who goes there should try. I love their food... and it may cost you all of $4.00 for meal of your choice! Then come by The Hub on Wednesday night when we get pitchers of any of the tap brews for $6 each... Magic Hat #9, Sam Adams and a dozen others.Onward and upward... live life to your fullest and insulate any damn way yaa wanna all,near the stream,aj
*relatively new to this tavern and after being gone for a week I find this while looking for what's new and interesting. I find it both intriguing for it's human drama and also sad ...Didn't see the old exchanges that led to this but just on face value - here & now - I find the attitudes brought by Gabe and Joseph Fusco as negative and meanspirited and first-strikish. I'm sure the history might add other details to make it more complex. But it's not the sort of energy I come here for. ... on the original topic, I attended (& volunteered at - thereby getting in for a reduced price) Affordable Comfort in Madison a few years ago and found it to be very interesting and informative. Opened my eyes and head to a bunch of considerations - air flow/ventilation/moisture concerns. I previously had intuitive concern regarding this stuff but the conference gave me MUCH more rigorous perspectives. (And since I work in HVAC a significant portion of the time, I really appreciated Henry Gifford's contributions!) I highly recommend. Good people, good material, and, as has been pointed out, non-profit. Appreciate the heads up and am glad to see it's gonna be in Mpls in 2004.
*Royboy,Don't let all that stuff get in the way of enjoying your time here. BTW, you're not in the tavern, that's where the personal stuff was supposed to be. You're in the serious discussion part of the forum.MD
*Dear Jack,That is a bummer. You missed my first run-through on Paint Failures where I threw Play Doh at the wall for a macroscopic simulation of spray painting. Only a memory now.Consider yourself in the loop. I believe that NY will continue to sponsor annual affairs with utility money.Near your stream again, Fred
*I would like to inform everyone here of a new development in this whole mess. A while back Andy gave my dad his number and address (before all this started is my understanding) with interest to meet one another. Today my dad sent Andy an e-mail saying "The only way to resolve this would be in person. I look forward to making your acquantance." Andy was apparently so terrified by this remark that he called the police. That remark does not sound like something that would scare me. Ecspecially since the two men live in seperate states and it is not as if my dad is going to "hunt him down". The problem I have with the ban is this; I agree that this forum is not the place to have the "wars". But if Andy is such a fair and evenhanded guy why weren't all the ringleaders banned? Ban all three (Gabe, Joe, and Fred) or ban none of them and let them duke it out. Now Gabe and Joe can be mocked without a chance to defend themselves or their methods. I started this without intending to insult anyone, but I have concluded that Andy is not only unfair but also a coward.AJ- if you want to know the story behind my email address let me know and i will visit the woodshed.
*Just cautious.
*Considering where this topic is moving, it might be useful to move the whole thread to the Woodshed.
*The first thing I want to say is that this fight is very silly. Next is my sister is right the band is silly. Now have a nice day.(I was 9 on sunday)
*And the banned played on...
*Let me be the first to admit, my husband is not the easiest person to get along with,and I haven't always agreed with some of the things he says, but, to ban both he and Gabe without giving them the ability to refute the statements made is simply outrageous!!
*Dear Andy,what I do not get is why you banned Gabe when all he said was all he thought? Why did you band my dad?
*hey at least we are a tight nit group huh Mike
*Sorry Lugano, but I do not type like some unschooled moron. I am a 19 year old with a college degree and I do not like the insult. I am not rude.So Andy how long does "cousinfusco" get away with that kind of commentary???
*Mad Dog - thanks for the reminder that I'm not in the tavern. I lost track.Is there an open container law here (in the "serious part of the forum")?
*Danielle.Why don't you post the message itself.You take offense when others question the "validty" of your thoughts, why do you turn around and question the validity of theirs?I would be interestyed in seeing the text of the message.Of course, you ought to give hard thought before posting it. You might consider consulting with legal counsel before doing so.FWIW, this is the message Joe sent to me today:QUOTEBob,After reading your reply to my daughter it's obvious you have no idea what my position is on Mr. Lugano or why I arrived at it. Most all that you post speaks volumes as to why you made a bad lawyer and needed to go into home inspections for a living. Do us both a favor, Shut_up.Joe Fusco.ENDQUOTEFor the record, I had primary legal responsibilty for about US$6 Billion of a bank's international assets, as well as responsibility for a number of other areas. Apparently the lawyers who kept promoting me and the bankers who chose to use my services weren't as perceptibve as Mr. Fusco.I burned out on banking and pushing papers around a desk 12 hours a day, and went back to construction. Started getting calls to do home inspections. None of those people are as perceptive as him, either, I guess.
*the first post in this thread sez it all.....i FredL - 01:20pm Mar 1, 2002 ESTi You don't want to miss this. Sillier by the hour here. Joe H
*Andy, The points been made. Too bad the old timers had to go. Don't forget this is the USA! MY 2 cents all or none should go (3) I Know I hate giving the boot to people who have worked for me.My vote is bring all 3 back. I got work to do and I might have some questions for all parties involved. God Bless America & Canada! G.
*G8, Got volcano insurance? Joe H
*Lumber yard dispatcher: Take this framing package out to the Jones property on Sagebrush Lane.Driver: What's the address??Dispatcher: I'm not sure...Just look around for a house with only a basement and drop it off...can't go wrong that way!
*hey, did u guys just hi-jack this thread ?g80.. were u the guy used to post stock tips about ywo years ago ?