*
DH and I are building a log house on 4 acres in a brand new subdivision. Many lots are still for sale and no one actually lives in the subdivision yet. Even though we put a cable across our driveway and a sign that says “Private Drive”, yesterday we still had 3 separate parties of lookie-lus on property. They just step across the cable and come right up the drive like they have some sort of god-given right to trespass. One couple yesterday also had their dog with them running around as they were trespassing. I find this unbelievable. What is it that makes people think my home is available for them to look at? Is there anything that can be done? What have you done in the past? I don’t want to start putting up lots of “Keep out” signs or “No Trespassing” signs or any of that if I don’t have to because there are some people we want to come up the drive. I was thinking about putting a couple of fake surveillance cameras at the bottom of the drive. I am hoping that might filter out the lookie-lus and people with legitimate business will still come up. Any thoughts? Any success stories for removing gawkers.
Oh, and even though we have posted “Danger Keep Out” signs on the house itself, one guy last weekend just walked right one of those signs into our house. He thought no one was around. Boy was he searching for words when DH confronted him.
So, any ideas? Anyone else want to vent? LOL!
Paula
Replies
*
Chain link fence topped with concertina wire stops most of them.
-- J.S.
*A sign saying "Persons found here at night will be found here in the morning."?
*I guess the question begs, why do you want to keep them out?Signage is all you're responsible for. Other than that, they're trespassing. Is it a big deal? Possibly. Most people are simply curious...but liability-wise, whoever owns the property...either the builder with a spec house, or homeowners such as yourself...need "No Trespassing" signage. The cable is a reinforcement.If pilfering is a concern, then materials management needs to be adressed...minimum inventory on site, etc.Concertina wire, along with a few dummy claymores with the "THIS SIDE TOWARDS ENEMY" easily visible may help.Don't go too far with site security, or an injury...even though due to trespassing...could find you in court.
*PaulaJust wait, it doesn't stop when the house is finished. We have 8 various No Trespassing signs on a 1 mile long driveway. Yet we still get approx. 2 or 3 lookie lues a weekend. The frustrating one is the teenagers that think our grass runway is a good place to do donuts get a few of these every summer. I caught one of these kids last year, saw him doing the donuts so I jumped in the Jeep and chased him down the driveway. He made the mistake of turning up an old deadend road. So I blocked the road and waited for him to come back. I could here him coming back at a high speed when he came around the last corner and slammed on the brakes he slid right up to the side of the jeep, I had the doors and roof off so when I jumped out of the jeep I landed on the center of his hood. First time in years I've lost my temper but it was the second set of donuts in a week. I had the driver and his two buddies on there hands and knees filling in all the ruts with their hands. This years project: a gate.
*different strokes for different folks.. some of those "trespassers" & "lookie-lus" will turn out to be your future neighbors... why not get acquainted now ?
*Sign at bottom of driveway:"Persons entering without explicit prior authorization, for any reason, are subject to arrest and prosecution under laws prohibiting Criminal Trespass". Post the applicable state law section number.
*In my area, unauthorized entry to private property without signage is simple trespass. Walking past "No Trespassing" signs is criminal trespass (i.e. you can expect the police to make an arrest).A gun displayed visibly in a vehicle's gun rack can be construed as an "attractive nuisance" and that can partially mitigate the crime of theft. I don't imagine that a construction site would be interpreted as an attractive nuisance in court, but in practice they serve as such. An "I don't look around your house, uninvited. Please show me the same respect." sign, or something similar may get the message across to a few more people without seeming hardnosed about it. -David
*Mongo, I sort of wondered myself if there is some sort of unspoken rule that I'm just suppossed to put up with it or something! LIke maybe I'm the one in the wrong and it is my duty to put up with lookie lus. Am I? Why do I want to keep them out? I guess because they have no business being there. I would never go over and bring my dog, enter their yard, and gawk at their house. :-) I would never put up something that would hurt someone. These folks don't mean any harm, they just don't belong there! Also, we are very busy trying to build a house. I don't have time to watch all these people wandering around and answer all their log home questions. Maybe I am too uptight about this. By the way, the chain link fence is against covenents Darn it! :-) John, your solution definitely has a Texas ring to it. Maybe that's a regional solution :-)Maybe I should put a box at the driveway that says "Gawker fee, $5 per person"
*Mike Smith, that's what I mean about some folks we want to come up the driveway, i.e, people who actually own nearby lots. We know all the people in the immediate area already, but there will be a total of 50 lots. Kevin, people driving on my land would send me into a temper tantrum for sure. Before we put up the cable, someone had a bonfire on our property. It just burns me up.....:-) Seriously though, they could have burned down the whole forest. David, I like your proposed sign. I think I will go with that. People just need to stop and think about what they are doing.
*"UNINVITED VISITORS PLEASE SIGN IN HERE"fine print says"so we can bring our dog and kids to wander around your property too"
*When I built a new home a few years ago in a small (10,000 people) town, people wandered through the house all the time. Not much happens around here, and everyone in town, it seemed, knew me as the guy building "the house". Someone came up to me in the supermarket and said how much he liked the tile in my upstairs bathroom. I felt like saying "Who are you and when were you in my bathroom," but just said thank you. Being from New Jersey originally, it unnerved me at first, but I grew to like it. I got so many compliments on the house, and met so many nice people that after a while I enjoyed the attention. Nothing ever came up missing or damaged. After the locks were put on people no longer went inside but stopped by on their daily walks and chatted about trim colors or landscaping. One even sent me a housewarming card. A real thief would come in at night and there's not much you could do about that. I would not worry about gawkers. Just enjoy creating your dream.
*Paula, Your building your home in Colorado, right? Don't they have a "make my day punk" law? Meaning trespassers can be shot on site. I know how frustrating living in a neighbourhood that doesn't allow fences. We had these neighbours visiting relatives all over our swing set last month.
*No place has a "tresspassers can be shot on site" law. There must be imminent threat to life or limb.Now some places, such as here in Oregon, say that any tresspasser *inside* your residence is implicitly threatening your life, so you may shoot them on sight (they also paradoxically allow "no-knock" warrants, whihch leads to police and/or citizen shootings every once in a while). But in this case, since the house is not occupied, about the most you could do is place them under citizen's arrest, if allowed in your jurisdiction.As a resident in a rural area, this behavior is pretty bewildering to me. Folks around here would never, ever, venture onto someone's property, even a neighbor, without calling first. Private property feeling are too strong, and often enforced by the owners.
*I guess I don't really understand all of the posessiveness. I am the curious type, and when I go by a construction site, if it appears to be open, I generally wander around and check out the building techniques - thus I guess I would be one of your "lookie lus". I don't go in, but I do peer through whatever windows are available. BarryO, you must be in a different part of Oregon than I am. When I was raised here, 7 miles outside of The Dalles, OR, we were partially surrounded by National Forest and treated it and all the large ranches around as open territory - there were only one or two people who seemed to have a problem with us cutting across their land. There were lots of "no hunting" signs, but not many "no trespassing" signs.My five acres just outside The Dalles are between the highway and Forest Service land. I have people cutting across my place all the time. I generally just wave, although occasionally someone will come over to chat. That will probably stop when I build my livestock fence, but I would have no problem giving people access if I could figure out some way to protect myself from any liability. I have had a few things ripped off, but I assume that it isn't the "lookie lues" that do it. Keeping the honest folks out isn't going to cut down on the thefts.PDF - In The Dalles of my youth, you would have been considered unfriendly if not outright anti-social, but things, unfortuntely, have changed a bit since then. Still, I sure wish we could go back to the open and friendly ways rather than building fences, barracades, no Trasspassing areas, etc. Maybe I spent too much time with the "flower children" in the 60's and still keep hoping we can somehow create a friendlier world, but we seem steadily to move in the opposite direction. Too many people, I guess, for the old small town mentality to continue...
*We had lots of this when building. Here if you have the No Trespassing signs it gives you extra options with troublemakers. I gave at least 300 tours during and since construction. Lots of nice people. A few jackasses. The only serious problems were kids there after midnight drinking. They'd tear out screens, kick cement around, steal tools if there was a chance, and leave empties all over. The only thing that bugged me about the other visitors was how few said, "and by the way, please stop over for a tour of my house."
*A misunderstanding...I wasn't asking "why do you want to keep them out" as in "you're being an idiot to do so." I meant do you want to keep them out because 1) you just don't want people there or 2) for site (tools/materials) security. Two slightly different animals which can be attacked by different methods.Construction sites are a curiousity. Like the DIY shows on TV, everyone wants to see how things go together. Not many people get the chance to see the skeleton of a structure, and some are intrigued by the idea of getting a peak. I'd guess that since it's a subdivision, most of the "intruders" are neighbors. A bit of envy on their part? They're trying to see what the neighbors are getting? Who's bedroom/bathroom/kitchen is bigger? Remodeling ideas? A chance for them to critique your crappy new house?Who knows.Next time you see someone, simply ask "May I help you?" and "Do you live in the neighborhood?" If neighbors, offer to show them around, while explaining your (and the builder's) concern regarding site safety. If they don't live around you, simply ask why they are there. I think the bigest danger in a partially framed house is unsupported/unsecured subflooring in front of chimney and stairwell openings.Also, since it's a "new subdivision" it may be prospective buyers trying to gauge the quality of construction in the neighborhood. You never know...Then again...you can always get a can of landscaping paint and paint the outline of a body just inside your driveway, or along the path used by others to enter your property. Drive in a few stakes around the outline and run some "CRIME SCENE - CAUTION" tape around the perimeter, from stake to stake.
*CaseyR,Yea, I do live in a different part, western Washington county, to be exact. Waaay too close to the "big city" (Portland Metro). 'lots of worries about unwelcome urban "visitors", and about the druggies that run meth labs out in the woods to serve the urban population.I'm not surprised things would be different east of the mountains. 'always seems refreshingly uncrowded over there.
*I would hand them some tools and tell them if you look you work. Tell them you expect to be paid $45.00 an hour to let them help you. I bet they run.Tamara
*I have no tresspassing signs up.Not because I am anti-social or unfriendly. But because of liability. I live on a ridge. After living here the first winter, and almost breaking my own neck dozens of times, I discovered that if someone else were on the property, even trespassing without my knowledge, and they fell and hurt themselves, I would be liable. Unless I had no trespassing signs up. With the signs, I still stand a chance of losing some in a court case, but I at least stand a chance because they came onto my property after reading the sign, knowing they were trespassing.
*tamarra, I do not know about the 45 an hour but I like the idea of handing them tools
*Biggest problem is city slickers. They somehow grew up thinking that all woods are public property. No problem for them to park on a country road and wander into the "public" woods to harvest your morels, have beer parties, sight their rifles in on your shed, leave trash, and drive through in their ATVs or sleds (depending upon time of year).
*Paula - I started almost this exact same thread about a year ago, and got more or less the same responses. (Tried to search for the thread, but couldn't find it) It sure ticked me off when people were running around my house while I was building it. But it seems to be the norm. Even when I specifically tried to keep them out, I still had problems. When I had all the doors on but one, I backed my dump truck up against it so people couldn't simply walk in. They just climbed up over the sides of the truck and wandered around anyway. The only advice I could give you is don't take it too personal, and make sure you have insurance. The police will do virtually nothing, even with no trespassing signs and repeated warnings. If you stake the place out, you'll waste a lot of your time and probably get sued if you threaten someone with a gun and tell them to get off your property. I wish there was a better solution, but I don't know what it is. I know of a couple near here that surrounded their house with the orange "snow fence" and it still didn't do any good. SO I guess the bottom line is: Pay for insurance in case one of them falls and sues you, and sleep as well as you can at night and don't worry about it. Not much you can do anyway.
*This brings back memories of the summer the house next door got built. As soon as the crew was gone, the neighbor kids (including myself) were all over that site. In memory it seems like the framing was there to climb on all summer. We had a great time. No one ever complained that I can remember. Seems like I cut my foot (of course we were barefoot!) on one of those H clips for the plywood. It was only a few years ago that I realized what those wierd pieces of metal were for.As an adult, I find myself extremely reluctant to go onto any property uninvited.Rich Beckman
*Hang some colored streamers on that cable across your driveway, before someone gets hurt.
*Hey PDF, A couple o' questions..... Where is this house?...and when do you leave for the day. Boy I sure would like to take a L@@K around for myself...I have this vision of a newly wed couple christening their new home while their looky-lu neighbors are checking out their just finished home. "Hey honey this looks like the master bedroom...... OH MY GOD"
*So if you have a building site on private property and someone trespasses and injures themselves one can be held to be negligent in court?Do no trespass signs really protect you?Frank
*PDF,Try a "beware of dog" sign and have another sign saying something like "rotwieler breeders, we specialize in guard dogs". That ought to get there attention.
*And the sign says" TRESSPASSERS WILL BE SHOT ON SIGHT. ANY SURVIVORS (not!) WILL BE PROSECUTED TO THE FULLEST EXTENT OF THE LAW!" orVISITORS WELCOME!Please be aware that according to Docket # 24793A subsection 314B, the Mental Health Dept forbids visitors to bring me alcoholic beverages. I therefore can no longer be held responsible for any more accidental deaths.
*> Biggest problem is city slickers. They somehow grew up thinking that all woods are public property. No problem for them to park on a country road and wander into the "public" woods to harvest your morels, have beer parties, sight their rifles in on your shed, leave trash, and drive through in their ATVs or sleds (depending upon time of year). 'got that right. 'around here, we call the fall hunting season the "armed urban drunks invasion" season.But back to PDF's problem. I think the root of it is that, alot of folks assume any house under construction is being built by some faceless "corporate" entity, and is not actually owned by anyone. Therefore, there is no one to offend by tresspassing.
*Yesterday it rained. Half the night too. By the middle of the night, it was getting so cold that the rain was turning to sleet, and was freezing when it hit. When you got up today, the front sidewalk was a sheet of ice. Heck, everything is a sheet of ice.A kirby vacum salesman walks up your sidewalk, knocks on your door and tries to sell you a vacum. You turn him away. On his way back down the sidewalk, he trips, falls and breaks his pelvis.You did not ask this numbnutz to walk up to your door and try to sell you a vacum, but guess who is going to be called on to be responsible for his medical bills, lost wages, etc ??? I hope you have good insurance...You go to court. You point out that there is a no trespassing sign on the front gate. The very gate this guy walked through to get to your sidewalk and your door. It is entirely possible that the judge may say something like... "The numbnutz is employed selling kirbys door to door. He is expected to actualy go to people's doors, in order to try to sell them a kirby. In the absence of anything to tell him differently, he may assume that you are no more or less willing than anyone else on the block, for him to approach your door. It is common practice, and indeed necessary for many services, for the person performing the service, to approach your front door, using the sidewalk leading up to it. This may be considered a sort of psuedo public property.""However... there was a sign on the front gate that said "no trespassing". In order to do his job, this NN must know how to read. The sign sends an obvious message that people are not welcome to just walk up your sidewalk and knock on your door. To open the gate, he had to look at the gate. If he looked at the gate, he had to see, and read the sign. If he read the sign, he knew that he was not welcome on the property. Indeed, he knew that he was being told to stay off the property. Yet he chose to trespass anyway, in an attempt to sell the homeowner a kirby.""The NN was not supposed to be on the sidewalk in the first place. By being there anyway, he took upon himself, the responsibility of what would happen should he slip on the ice and break his pelvis."A judge just might say all that. But then again, they may not.It all fits with what I was told was the law around here. And it fits with anecdotal incedents that I have heard about along the way in life. Since I have never taken the time to actualy go and research the pertinant laws, I can't say positively, one way or the other. But this is the way I understand it to be.When I moved out here, I did NOT want to be seen as hostile and unsociable. Therefore, I put off getting the signs. But I was strongly urged by many people out here to go ahead and get the signs and post them. All saying basicaly the same thing. You can't positively CYA about someone getting hurt on your property, but you have a bettr chance if you have the signs, than if you don't.
*Signage is good, as everyone has mentioned, but know the law in your state and county. Pick up the phone and call your county attorneys office. In the county I am building in anyone can put up "no tresspassing sign", but only those that have filed thier actions with the county attorney can file a complaint agianst someone that tresspasses.I have told several strangers that they are tresspassing and ask them to leave. Mostly you can tell which ones you don't want around, before they get close to the house. I just walk out and invite them to leave, politely. Most of them are so embarrassed, they want to run off and hide. Neighbors and [eople that ask if they can look are invited in, or ppolitely told "no,I am kind of busy right now, maybe you can catch me another time when things are a little slower" For those that insist, i also ask them leave. At that point I also mention that they are in violation of a county ordinance, and I can file charges agianst them. I have only had to do that once, and it was with a neighbor that seemed to think that all that rough sawn lumber was free. The county attorney sent him a letter stating the nature of my complaint, and warned him to stay off my property.Know the law and what you can and can't do. Then decide how you want to handle it.
*My shop is in a 16 acre woods near a small town of 4500. They treat it like it is a public place....mushroom hunting, hickory nut gathering, wildflower viewers, etc. I tell them I would have been delighted to see them enjoying my property.... IF they would have asked first. When I see someone wandering through the woods, I always go right up to them, and this alone is usually enough punishment. I am very easy going, but not when stepped on.
*There is a big difference between walking and looking and stealing or vandalism. In England, I've read, no landowner can keep people from walking across his land because of the long tradition of walking for pleasure and exercise there. Any attempts to do so has resulted in a large public outcry against it. They are much more crowded than we are. One of the things we are losing as a society is places to walk. Even in cities, a lot of places don't have sidewalks. But all walkers should respect the property they are walking on and do no dammage - just like in the National Parks and Forests. Where I am, the farmers don't seem to mind people walking on their land so long as you don't trample their crops or newly sown fields - soemthing that is easily avoided with just a modicum of thought.But if someone takes something - anything, burns things, or destroys things on any property, then that is theft, plain and simple. Walking is innocent and even healthy, thievery is criminal. Most people who like to look at houses under construction are curious about the way houses are put together, curious about the choices the people make, how the house is designed and compared to their own. We have several new houses going up near where I live and they stay vacant with no one working on them for weeks at a time, then there will be a flurry of activity, then they sit. On my walks, I've met several of my new neighbors and discovered they have to sign a contract that allows the builder a year to complete construction, and he takes that long. Some of these people seem quite unfriendly and others friendly. There is also a big difference between looking at construction underway and barging in on an inhabitated residence. I might look at construction underway but would not interfere with work going on because that would be taking something to which I am not entitled - the time of the people working. Also, it is a lot more dangerous to be wandering around while people are working than when it is deserted. A sign stating danger would probably go a long way towards relieveing the builder and owner of libility should someone be stupid and mean enough to try to sue for it. I don't see such signs up, but it seems pretty self-evident at a construction site. Most subdivisions are sold off without the future owner actually taking possesion of the property until the house is finished, so someone else actually owns that property and it isn't actually the buyers house until settlement is completed.Mary
*You can alway place a sign that says" Warning: Extreme Poison Oak/Ivey growth on this section of property. tresspassers enter at their own risk of exposer"
*A lot of builders and subs get work from people coming out and looking.I go and look at houses being built in my neighborhood. I look at the workmanship to pick up tips. I look for code violations to see if the inspectors are doing their jobs and if the builders know what they are doing.I always tour with empty pockets, clean shoes, and I don't touch anything except the floors.
*i "In England, I've read, no landowner can keep people from walking across his land....."Tesaje, that's Scotland which has no laws of trespass as far as I know, and an ancient 'right to roam' tradition- and you're correct in that any attempt to curtail that 'right to roam' meets with fierce resistance. However, it is still an offence to cause damage to property, etc., so trampling down fields of barley, blundering across the roses in someones garden, etc., is at least frowned upon. ;-)England does have laws of trespass, and I'd be lying if I said I'm significantly knowledgeable about them. But there are bridleways, ancient rights of way, canal paths, footpaths, etc., that are marked on Ordnance Survey maps that people are fully entitled to use. If those 'rights of way' fall into disuse the landowner will sometimes go to the courts in an attempt to have the designated 'right of way' declared legally closed. However, there are dedicated 'anoraks' that make it their job to keep on top of that. They organise themselves pretty well and exercise there 'right of way' at least to the minimum annual requirements so that it remains a right of way,.......and more power to them too as far as I'm concerned. Slainte, RJ.
*Thanks everyone for your opinions and your very clever signs! I am still smiling over yours piffin. And the poison ivy one. ha ha ha. How about "Poison Ivy Farm and Pit Bull Breeding Center" I can see that there are a range of opinions on this topic and there isn't one rule of thumb here. Very thought provoking. I guess we'll just take it on a case by case basis. At this point, we have tried as best we can to seal off entry into the house, so I'm not too worried about someone hurting themselves and our liability. I mean, they would be breaking and entering just to be *able* to hurt themselves. Mostly, I guess I just think people should respect our private property. Clearly, there are a range of opinions out there. Very interesting! Paula
*I defer to your better knowledge. Thanks for the clarification and it fits with what I remember I read.Mary
*Around here, I do my lookie-luing from the public sidewalk. I'll try to strike up a conversation with the builder, but if they're not interested in meeting a neighbor, I just say "nice job" and walk away. On the place next door to mine, I caught Danny the GC when he was waiting for an inspector, so he had plenty of time to chat. I ended up spending more time than I expected, and he showed me around the place.-- J.S.
*Dear Paula,I'm as guilty as anybody. Been peeking at construction sites for 30 years. With hands in pockets at all times. But had I ever seen a sign warning Militarized Anthrax Testing Range, I would have though about it.Cordially, Fred
*Ya know it wasnt to long ago where some of the campgrounds in some of the National Parks were quarantined for bubonic plague..Now that would be a catchy sign "CAUTION ARE QUARANTINED DUE TO BUBONIC PLAGUE" DO NOT GO BEYOND THIS POINT" That might get their attention heheheh
*Why not use a shovel handle for a sign which reads "Please save us the trouble of digging your grave before you enter our property"
*The number one rule on signs is "People don't read them". The second rule is the warning only applies to "anyone but me".We worked on a bridge replacement job a few years back were a lady became disoriented, drove over a six-inch barrier curb to get around a solid wall of Type 3 barricades, traveled along the edge of an embankment, got back on the pavement, drove around the concrete Jersey barriers, off the edge of the approach slab and down onto a major expressway.Did the family sue? Yes. Did they get money? Yes. Is our system srewed up? You decide.
*PDF,Figures I'd be the first one stuck with saying this but seems to me you are rather inhospitable. So upset that people are having a peek at your work in progress seems a little over the top to me.Personally, I would be proud to have so many interested in my project. I love to show off my work, meet new people and have a friendly chat.I also find myself inspecting homes under construction for many reasons like... rating the craftsmenship and techniques of the builders, checking out design features and lay-outs,and basically satisfying other curiosities of mine.I always show respect when on another's jobsite by not touching or ruining or moving things. I've driven up to homes in progress where the homeowners are doing the work, walked in (no door to knock on yet) introduced myself and had a great chat and tour of the places. Even offered some help or advice when needed.So, try being a little more friendly and polite and all else will appear more the same to you.Pete
*Forget the signs! Just yell to them as they enter,"Get the F#%K off my property!!
*I've enjoyed this thread. It gives me a great insight into the poster's personalities and attitudes.Mine: Let'm come look. It is hard enough to get to meet the neighbors as it is. If this breaks the ice great! Since this is a new subdivision maybe their perception of me will either influence them to build or not. If that helps me get compatible neighbors, again great!