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Craftsman Radial Arm Saw-Motor died?

Amax1's picture

I have a 10" Craftsman radial arm saw Model 113.197751 that has a dead
AC motor. I was using it with the Shop Vac attached, and ON, and was ready to make my cut thru 1" X 6" cedar. I was wearing eye covering, and ear plugs. What happened was I turned on the saw motor switch, and
I did not hear the problem for 3 seconds, that I had the saw carriage a bit too far out and the saw blade teeth were against the cedar. So the motor was not free to turn. I finally realized it and shut it off.
It did not pop up the red reset button, and the motor was not warm/hot. But it rendered the motor dead. It will not run/start. I've dis-assembled the top to get at the AC switch and I do have AC power to the switch. I do have a Fluke DVM but I don't know what to look for in
ohms with the 2 leads to the motor. My last resort is to remove the motor and take it into a small motor repair shop in town. (N. Ga. Mtns.) Is there a chance I should try to pop=up the red RESET button &
do a reset? Thanks, Amax

(post #83396, reply #1 of 18)

Your Fluke on 'ohms' will not be able to tell you anything about the motor other than continuity.


Check to see if you have power on the far side of the reset button, they go bad or get sawdust in them sometimes.


Does the motor hum when power is applied - that would mean a burnt current relay or zapped start capacitor.


3 seconds on a cold motor should not damage it, unless you saw/smelt smoke.


Check all wire connections in the junction box on the motor.


A RAS at a garage sale or from craigslist will be cheaper than a motor shop. Have gotten Crastsman RAS for as little as $20 at garage sales, even after telling the seller they could get $100 by sending it back on a recall notice at no cost to them.


I rewound my own ras sears motor once 20 years ago and it was not too much of a problem - 4 nails on a board and wrap a couple more turns than on it now of one size larger magnet wire, shove the wires into the same slots. Pour polyurethane into the slots after you put the winding into the slots. Makes a more robust motor. 


Another option is to send the 113.#### P/N to Emerson (look on google for sears ras recall, etc) and they will send you a box and you can send your old motor in and they send you  a $100 check if the pn is old enough)


I've a good sears RAS motor in the barn that I've not sent to Emerson yet, if you were on the other side of the country I'd just tell you to come get it <G>.


PS: see this is your 5th post, Welcome to BT if no one has said so already.


 


 

(post #83396, reply #2 of 18)

"Does the motor hum when power is applied - that would mean a burnt current relay or zapped start capacitor."

MOst of those motors have centrifical start switches and they often get blocked with sawdust.

.
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
. William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe

(post #83396, reply #3 of 18)

I guess spinning the blade and then hitting the switch is something I should not advis? huh?

Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks


Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations



You gonna play that thing?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0

www.richmondrenovationsandrestoration.com  

(post #83396, reply #4 of 18)

YOU can advise that.

Actaully that is not that bad. However, the order of the operation is CRICTICAL.

But if it is a starter problem you will hear the motor humming when power is turned on.

.
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
. William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe

(post #83396, reply #5 of 18)

I've "kick started" a lot of funky motors, yanking the lathe belt, well, that was dicey (G)

Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks


Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations



You gonna play that thing?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0

www.richmondrenovationsandrestoration.com  

(post #83396, reply #13 of 18)

I start my drill press by rolling the chuck from my inner elbow to my fingertips!


Forrest

(post #83396, reply #14 of 18)

Wouldn't it be easier to move your arm rather than the chuck?

Specially if the chuck is attached to the spindle.

.
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.


Edited 7/31/2008 1:03 pm by BillHartmann

. William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe

(post #83396, reply #15 of 18)

Nah - I just get it spinnin' like I said, and smack it up into the Morse taper in the quill real quick-like.


Forrest

(post #83396, reply #6 of 18)

Actually, every one of the Craftsman RAS saws I've looked at had current relays vs. centrifugal switches (about 15 or so).


Every one of Craftsman table saws I've seen with a motor did have centrifugal switches.

(post #83396, reply #7 of 18)

There was no smoke, and no smell. I've removed the power switch and I have correct AC to and thru the switch. When AC is passed to the motor, there is absolutely no hum, or any sound at all. I am able to rotate
the motor shaft- it is free. I will try the suggestion of a power on &
rotation help, that's totally safe in my book. I'm still tempted to pull the reset button up and then do a reset and hopefully hear that
lovely reset click. The red reset does in fact have saw-dust around it,
but the side vents on the motor are open and clean. Thanks for all the advice, offers, and the welcome. I'm finishing out the interior of our cabin and have about everything I need except a Jointer. I will prevail with this somehow. Amax/N.Ga.

(post #83396, reply #8 of 18)

I have had the motor shut down from a very short jam in this same sort of saw. Played with the reset button, etc. with no luck.  


Came back the next day and it fired up just fine. Mebbe you have the same?

(post #83396, reply #9 of 18)

Now that it's had a long time to cool off, try pressing the button again -- if you haven't already. When mine overheats, you can't tell the button has popped at all, by looks or feel. Once it's cooled off, however,the button will then make a small click when you depress it, & you're back in business.

(post #83396, reply #10 of 18)

Was the Shop Vac on the same power connection? Not a good idea.

I agree- check for voltages, and also look at the brushes on the motor. The leads can burn and fail, making it not work.

You probably can't manually pop the breaker but you can check for voltage on both of its connections. If you have 120V on one side and not the other, shut off the power and remove the breaker to test it. If you know where the leads to the motor are, check for continuity- if you see a relatively low number, it may be OK. If it shows 0 Ohms or a really low number, it may be shorted but that will usually pop the breaker. You can check the brushes this way, too. If it shows no continuity, check from the motor wires to the brush contacts with the brushes out.

"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."

(post #83396, reply #11 of 18)

For reference, the 113.xx models all have induction motors.

(post #83396, reply #12 of 18)

OK, thanks. I didn't know that.

"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."

"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."

(post #83396, reply #16 of 18)

hifigh;
"Was the Shop Vac on the same power connection? Not a good idea."

Well, yes and no. They were both on the same 20 AMP circuit, but not plugged into the same duplex. The shop-Vac was powered up and at full
RPM, & it was then that I hit the saw switch. With ear plugs and the Vac running, it took 2 or 3 seconds to see the jam. The saw motor did not trigger the 20 AMP breaker, and also, it was not warm or over heated.
As for the breaker popping up, it has always felt to me to be totally
in the down & set position. I've squeezed it many a-times. SO, I want to give appreciation to the prospects of the brushes, their leads, AC to the breaker on one side only, and "no continuity, check from the motor wires to the brush contacts with the brushes out" is splendid.
I'm not all that smart, but I've got some of my Dad's intelligent reasoning and patience. Plus, we're all Scotch as hell. So everything I have is old and prone to failure. And, I only know how to dive in and do this stuff when I have you guys out there making good suggestions.....thanks, again, I'll report any progress. Amax

(post #83396, reply #17 of 18)

You might be eligible for a $100 rebate. I did it.

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml01/01031.html

"With every mistake we must surely be learning"

(post #83396, reply #18 of 18)

OK, great nuz..........last night I attached the feed and load AC lines back onto the rocker switch, and carefully positioned it out to the side. I had removed the top cover and the AC wires & switch in prep for motor removal. So while it was switched to "ON" I wiggled & pecked and
convinced the RED reset button to do it's thing and WOW! It's running fine now, and I'm lucky I didn't disassemble more of the carriage to remove the motor. If it happens again for no reason I will be aware that the reset is probably trashed. And I certainly won't make the same stupid mistake again having the carriage forward just a little and catch the blade. As for the new info on the Emerson RAS rebates, as I read it I think mine will be in the newer catagory where I won't get their great $100. carriage trade-in. Anyway, thanks to all and I'm now gonna git on with it.............Amax