Disgusted with Sherwin Williams paint
I have been using Sherwin Williams paints for over 20 years. The quality used to be good… then it waned, then it recovered and now it is awful.
I am in the middle of remodeling my own kitchen. against my better judgment I went to SW to get paint…. and I bought the best stuff, Pro Classic at $43 per gallon, my price. I used Pro Classic int he past and it has been the most magnificent paint. So thick I was almost tempted to spread it with a knife. One coat coverage and ultra durability. Now, I am reduced to using two coats to get coverage on a wall that already has been primed… and if you look at it too hard, a run will develop.
The Pro Classic is performing like I would expect a $20 (or less) per gallon paint to.
I remember when their low line paints were great and now I can only imagine how poor they are.
This is not the first. I am constantly re-coating when I use SW paints and recently I had a huge problem with their enamel ultradeep base, tinted dark green. The color would not hold, it kept separating. They remixed with another paint base and same problem. even sent me to another SW store to see if that might make a difference and it did not. So, I had a brand new steel door with what turned out to be 5 coats of paint to get it right. I eventually used some old exterior paint tinted the same color. I really wanted enamel for this door but it wouldn’t happen.
I wonder if the SW folks view this site ever? I’d love to hear their response.
What paints do you all swear by these days? I need a new brand.
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
Replies
I bought some Olympic acrylic gloss paint today, very nice. But it says interior/exterior, which is a bit disturbing. I always thought the qualities of those paints were very different. It was the only gloss acrylic at Lowes I could find, otherwise I would have bought Valspar.
"It was the only gloss acrylic at Lowes I could find, otherwise I would have bought Valspar."Anything at Lowes or HD will be a "price-point" product, therefor not very good, even if it carries a big brand name. For instance, Glidden Spred from HD did poorly in hiding and weather durability tests done by Consumer Reports. Glidden Spred Dura, sold only by Glidden company stores and independent Glidden paint dealers, performed very highly in coverage and outdoor durability (gloss retention and resistance to color fading)in the same series of tests.I would guess the same applies to Olympic as well.BruceT
It's this product, I assume the Lowes formula is the same. I was very impressed with the application of it, but I do wonder about the adhesion and durability. I'm happy with it for the 6 or so hours I have been using it.http://www.olympic.com/paint_products/exterior_paints/olympic_premium_interior_exterior_high_gloss/index.htmOK, it's only sold at lowes.
Edited 8/30/2009 7:26 pm ET by Dam_inspector
pete.... we use a lot of BM... but most of our exterior trim is getting SW Duration... great results
but i can't conceive of $20/gal .... mostly $30 - $40Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Duration is great paint. Pricey, and the coverage is less, but I've had great experience with it.John Svenson, builder, remodeler, NE Ohio
I've had good success with Valspar from Lowe's on the last couple of jobs I did.View Image bakersfieldremodel.com
Porter 100% acrylic is awesome stuff. I just did my Hardie siding and with a dollop of Flotrol I was amazed how well it went. The last SW Duration I used, was horrible.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"
Jed Clampitt
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I just had a problem with our new door, and SW green paint,.. Black Forest green to be exact. the stuff with the 25 year Warr.
I did the brick mold with it and I can peel it off 2 weeks later... I think you're right, we always used their stuff through the yearsand anymore the stuff don't last.....
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I could be wrong about this, but I think that there is two different types of pro classic. A Latex and an Acrylic. I love pro-classic acrylic for trim paint, but I'm perfectly happy with their super paint for the walls and ceiling.
All acrylic paints are latex. But all latex paints are not acrylics.But there are 2 pro Classics. Acrylic and oil based..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Ehh, I was on the right track. What I meant to say was Alkyd and Acrylic.
I use Ben Moore for most everything. But this week painting a green exterior latex over their own latex primer the green was separating from itself and rolling up into beads. WTF???Still a big fan of Satin Impervo on interior trim, though the low VOC is definitely not as good as the old formulation. Does't cover as well, and dries kind of slowly.Love the Fresh Start acrylic primer, but it's pricey.Steve
I also use Benjamin Moore almost exclusively, but I've started using Behr primer lately since it's $20/gal versus $35/gal for B-M. The Behr interior primer works quite well. I'm not a fan of their paint, but that's another story.
To get back on track, have you tried the Aura line of paints? It covers in fewer coats. I've never needed more than even with really dark colors.
I haven't seen the separation issue you mentioned with any of their paints so I don't know what's going on there.
I still like BM interior, but have gone to SW exterior. Some here are starting to like California brand paints here for exteriors
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I like Porter (Courtalds) for exterior and Bennie Moore for interiors.
BM has some awesome historical colors.
sully
I can't help but wonder if they've made changes to their pigments. I haven't had the problem you mentioned, but it sounds like the pigment was incompatible with the paint.
I think they owe you a proper explanation of the issue.
BM went thru some minor problems after they were forced to change formulas a few years ago
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
BM went thru some minor problems after they were forced to change formulas a few years ago
You know, I noticed that. After they went to 100% acrylic in their Regal line, their paints seemed thinner. Either I've gotten used to it or they've corrected it, but I remember asking about it at my local paint store and all they said was that Benjamin Moore is always "tweaking" their formula.
I also had a problem with "lid-skinning". That's when the paint dries in a thin film on the lid when the can is closed and then falls into the paint creating hard chunks of paint and potentially ruining a paint job if they're not removed. I ignored it for a few gallons, but it continued to happen for several months.
I called Benjamin Moore about this and they said that sometimes happens in hot weather and to store the cans out of direct sunlight (which I always do). After a while, the problem went away and I haven't had any lid-skinning issues since.
Re: Lid Skimming - For latex paint I use a plant spritzer and spray the top of the paint and the lid with a little water before I seal it up. FWIW, we've started using the C2 line of paints inside and out, and we've been pleased. Decent coverage, good sheen, easy application. It's an extra $5 to go with the LoVo option, which goes on as well as the regular. Only two years on the interior, and 6 mos with the exterior acrylic, so I can't give any long-term guidance - just that it looks good now. -t
I've classified SW paints as being "contractor grade" for some years now, meaning they're cheaply made and cheaply sold. If you trust Consumer Reports, you'll find SW at the bottom for interior paints. Their top rated interior paint is Behr (Home Depot) followed by Benny Moore. My favorite for years had been PPG Manor, but it's apparently no longer available.
>>Their top rated interior paint is Behr (Home Depot) followed by Benny Moore<<I've had bad luck with the Behr interior wall paint. If you put enough of it on to cover it runs like a bastidge. And I had put a deep blue-green on a couple of different rooms with Ben Moore. Took three coats to cover well because it was such a deep color. A friend liked the color and went and got the equivalent in Behr at HD. Took seven coats to get results that still weren't half as good as with the Ben Moore. Poor coverage and inconsistent sheen.Steve
What's a bastidge?
Slang term for bastard.
Hmmm. And I was thinking I'd never use another brand of paint again after the last project I did with SW. I was way pleased with their top of the line interior latex. Haven't used their enamel. Was it latex enamel or oil-based?
latex enamel
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
Yeah, I really don't like latex enamel of any sort. Unless you're in CA and don't have an alternative I'd go for the oil based stuff next time. Better yet if you can find it I like polyurethane paint used on boats. Pricey though.
For exterior use we have been using California brand paints. We have used it on a bunch of steeples and it looks great for years. We do inspect the paint jobs regularly by climbing up and looking closely (anything would look good from 100 feet down) and on one steeple after ten years of New England winters the paint is holding up very well. Price wise it is in line with other quality paints.
I meditate, I burn candles, I drink green tea, and still I want to smack someone.
Without a doubt, the best interior paint that I use is Devoe (formerly Fuller Obrien) Double AA Acrylic.View Image
I've been using a lot of SW proclassic satin (water base) to repaint 100 yr old t and g redwood interior walls, old doors and old wood windows. I have had some issues with it getting some "alligator skin" looking cracks but overall I like it.
I am not doing any extreme colors, just off white and it seems like good paint to me. I find the finished result to be remarkably tough and durable.
Since I am going over a lot of ancient finishes that are presumably oil based and have had some water stains to deal with I use Zinsser cover stain oil base primer. If I tint it to match the top coat of proclassic I get pretty good results.
I too would like to hear of other paints that have the sheen of Pro classic satin and do better on coverage or durability. The staff at my local sherwin williams will bend over backward to encourage repeat business but they don't seem to know anything about their product.
My choices of paint stores locally are dunn edwards, benjamin moore, kelly moore or sherwin williams.
Karl
Karl
Are you using a deglosser over those old finishes before new topcoat?View Image
On the finishes with poor adhesion I ended up hiring a laborer to scrape all the questionable finish off and sand. It takes a full day to do a room but $200 extra to do it right as opposed to doing it cheap and having paint scrape off is worth it to me.If you have any miracle primer that prevents this step I am open to new ideas.
Yeah, no miracle primer. Even with an old but sound finish I'll use deglosser, even before primer.View Image
And it has gotten expensive. I used to buy/use and have others use for me SW, but its gotten to be more expensive than BM. On my basement project, 40-gallons were bouth in eight colors and finishes. Cost averaged $23 gallon for their Royal product. That was cheaper than the sale on SW's second best.
Was it a smart move? Who knows, but the wife and I are happy.
Maybe the guys at these forums could lend some insight to your dilemma.
http://www.painttalk.com/?gclid=CLXL0reD25wCFVRM5Qod_WnkKw
http://www.painterforum.com/yabbse/index.php