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Drywall primer

malibuds3's picture

I have heard different ideas but do I need dry wall primer w/ latex paint on new dry wall ?
thanks

(post #85015, reply #1 of 85)

Yep

(post #85015, reply #2 of 85)

Modern primer for new drywall is a special blend which encorporates adhesive into the mix.  So it seals as well as helping to make an excellent bonding base for a one top coat job.  The top coat is literally pulled out of the roller sleeve by the adhesive in the primer. 


Don't expect new drywall primer to look good by itself.  Just get it rolled on without worrying about making it look uniform.  It will take care of the rest. 


I'd suggest that you stick with the same company's paint for both the primer and the top coat.


 


 


Edited 12/24/2008 1:57 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter

(post #85015, reply #3 of 85)

Sometime in January I'll be following behind the drywaller and painting the 1200 SqFt of basement. I do want to primer, but wondered if anyone had products the recommended and can speak from use-experience. This includes the drywall ceiling as well.

(post #85015, reply #5 of 85)

super hide from benny moore

(post #85015, reply #11 of 85)

Can't go wrong with Benjamin Moore. 


Behr is OK too.  I did a bathroom remodel in this house, applying Behr's primer for new drywall over green board, using a satin top coat.  I was impressed by the results with one coat each.  Easy application, good coverage with a typical roller sleeve and my average painting skills.


The surface is easy to clean and seems durable after two years.

(post #85015, reply #13 of 85)

On another forum someone posted this about BM Aura single coat and no priming.

"All that said, we have just made the switch to Aura. What your dealer is telling you is correct. Aura is self priming and does not require a prime coat over fresh drywall. As was the Pearl finish, Aura is touted to be a one coat paint. Now not to sound snooty here, but a lot of our work is in high end and custom homes. The one coat thing just doesnt fly for us and we have yet to use a paint that tout's itself as one coat that actually cuts the mustard. I will say though that for the average paint job over bare drywall, one coat of Aura, if your walls are real clean and if you put it on as thick as you are suppose to, will satisfy the average joe. It actually does normalize the absorption between the paper and the compounded areas and the finish is acceptable (more later). This really only works though on a very absorbent surface like drywall. If you are painting over any sheen finish (eggshell or higher) all paints tend to skid and drag a bit and this can leave a screen of holidays kinda like looking through a window screen. Barring scuffing the surface (not worth it) its two coats. With dark colors over light or vice versa, two coats. Perhaps you could get away with one over flat paint but we have yet to try it."

But he still primes and second coat in most cases.

See Mark B for more details.

http://tinyurl.com/a6nh35

.
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
. William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe

(post #85015, reply #14 of 85)

I've sprung for the Aura paint. You really can do it in one coat. That paint is totally sick.


I did use two coats anyway. Just couldn't help myself. I do have to say...it's the best paint I've ever used. Pretty pricey though!


(post #85015, reply #15 of 85)

Andy, do you mean one coat and NO primer? How much does that cr^p cost?

(post #85015, reply #16 of 85)

fifty+ bucks a gallon last time I  used it.


and yep..no primer necessary but you do have to use 2 coats for sure in that case.


I use 2 anyway cuz I was rolling a deep rich color....plus I can't help myself...lol.


i used it in my own house just to try it out. Most customers'd never pay that much but I have asked.


Kinda like asking them if they wanna use Kerdi in the shower area i'm tiling. they won't spring for it no matter how good I tell'm it is. Some do but very few.


The paint itself is a better grade of paint all around I think. Goes on like a dream and blends in really nicely especially when I'm cutting it in.


The brushes even clean easier. The stuff does have a weird odor when wet though.


Here's some good stuff to read through if ya want..


http://www.myperfectcolor.com/Benjamin-Moore-Aura-Paint-Myperfectcolor-com-s/3342.htm



Edited 12/24/2008 11:44 pm ET by andybuildz

(post #85015, reply #17 of 85)

Holy cr^p! Fifty bucks!

Well, lessee, say with conventional method you got $10/gal. for primer and $20/gal. for finish. That's $30/gal. right there, not counting possible recoat, so it's not INSANELY more expensive. Good to know about this stuff, though, in case a client wants 'the best'.

Thanks for the link, Andy. Happy Holiday, bro.

(post #85015, reply #18 of 85)

Good primer is more then ten bucks. I usually use Kilz premium and thats almost $20 a gallon or Kilz 2 which is about $14 a gallon.


Then I use either BM and that stuff goes for about $30 a gallon unless you use Moorecraft which is half the price...but only half as good. It's fine for closets and the such. Ralph Lauren paint I find to be of good quality as well but not as good as BM.


They cut the price of RL down from what it used to be...now it's the same as BM.


Makes little sense to use cheap paint. How much do you really save? The Aura paint is kinda outta orbit though but like you said...if you have high end customers or you're doing your own house..ESPECIALLY if you're using deep colors like I usually do then it pays.Painter


To me....it's really only about $10 more a gallon when I add it all up.


Have a great new year yourself bro....keep it healthy : )2009 glasses



Edited 12/25/2008 12:57 am ET by andybuildz

(post #85015, reply #80 of 85)

I use Drywall Primer on new drywall or extensive filling, then Enamel Primer under satin: Behr works just fine.



 


Phill Giles


The Unionville Woodwright

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Phill Giles

The Unionville Woodwright

(post #85015, reply #19 of 85)

Sherwinn williams - I think its problock 200 that we like. or maybe 400. Just ask


Lou


As the twig bends- So grows the tree!!

As the twig bends- So grows the tree!!

(post #85015, reply #4 of 85)

It always makes your top coat look better. I always try and put on two coats of primer.

(post #85015, reply #6 of 85)

Primer shoud be used for all painting. Latex primer penetrates (and seals, if it's a primer-sealer) better than topcoat and leaves a low-film, porous surface for good adhesion (it does not contain adhesives, as someone claimed) of the topcoat.


One coat of a good quality primer or primer-sealer is all that's required. Two coats of topcoat are necessary, however, for good color coverage and durability. If you want to finish with only a single topcoat, you can tint the primer towards the finish color.


There are also vapor barrier latex primers available, which are a far better option than using poly, since they will allow some breathing of the wall system and yet meet code requirements.


 

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(post #85015, reply #20 of 85)

<<"...porous surface for good adhesion (it does not contain adhesives, as someone claimed)....."

Although I'm not the 'someone' who claimed that, I am under the impression that most drywall primers have PVA as an ingredient. Poly-vinyl-acetate, as I recall, is the main ingredient in many carpenter-wood-glue products.

Has the formulation for the primers changed, or was I wrong?

Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
. . . I can't live proud enough to die when I'm gone, So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here. (Phil Ochs)

(post #85015, reply #22 of 85)

YesMaam


I think you are correct about the PVA in most primers, Thats what probably made it feel too "sticky" to me when I was rolling it on (as opposed to spraying and backrolling)

(post #85015, reply #23 of 85)

I am under the impression that most drywall primers have PVA as an ingredient.


Many drywall primers use PVA as the binder in order to seal the porosity of the drywall and allow a more uniform coverage for the top-coat. Primer-sealers have more pigment and solids so that they can better fill uneven surfaces. Primer-sealer-hiders have more and larger solids for covering existing stains and sometimes stronger binders (like shellac-based BIN) for sealing in odors and stains (the alcohol kills bacteria).


The binder in paint creates the film and also enhances the adherance of the paint to the substrate (so in that sense, it's an adhesive). PVA is a less expensive altenative to acrylic binders used in the better quality paints. Primers have less binder and more solids than paint to create less film and more "tooth" or texture for the top-coat to adhere to.


A good "primer" on primer, titled Don't Skip the Primer, is at http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/PDF/Free/021161060.pdf


 

Riversong HouseWright

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(post #85015, reply #26 of 85)

Is it too hard for you to admit you were wrong when you claimed that there are no adhesives in primer? The PVA is the adhesive/bonding agent.

 

 


Welcome to the
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Oh Well,

We did the best we could...

(post #85015, reply #31 of 85)

Is it too hard for you to admit you were wrong when you claimed that there are no adhesives in primer? The PVA is the adhesive/bonding agent.


Not when I'm wrong. But I'm not in this case.


The paint industry does not use the term adhesive, as it would be misleading.


All paints contain:



  1. pigment
  2. binder
  3. carrier
  4. additives

The purpose of the binder (what you're calling adhesive) is to bind the pigment particles together, to create film strength, and - yes - to facilitate adherance to the substrate (not to create an adhesive bond to the top-coat, which calling it an adhesive suggests).



 

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Edited 12/26/2008 4:38 pm ET by Riversong

 
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(post #85015, reply #32 of 85)

You are just quibbling about words. an adhesive and a binder are the same thing. it is what bonds or adheres the pigments to the surface being painted. A quick google can find a great number of sites in the painting industry that use the term interchangeably. I posted one or two of them already.

 

 


Welcome to the
Taunton University of
Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
 where ...
Excellence is its own reward!

 

 

Oh Well,

We did the best we could...

(post #85015, reply #34 of 85)

You are just quibbling about words. an adhesive and a binder are the same thing. it is what bonds or adheres the pigments to the surface being painted.


I do not "quibble" about words. Words convey meaning and are the "tools" we use for communication. Careful use of words is just as important as careful use of our other tools. Without a common language, we are just talking past each other.


When we use the term "adhesive", we mean something that is used to bind two other materials together, not something that binds itself internally and to its substrate.


We don't coat walls with adhesive, we coat them with paint, which congeals or polymerizes into a film.


 


 

Riversong HouseWright

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(post #85015, reply #35 of 85)

Keep talking. The more you say, the more obvious it is you are all about BSing your way thru it.

 

 


Welcome to the
Taunton University of
Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
 where ...
Excellence is its own reward!

 

 

Oh Well,

We did the best we could...

(post #85015, reply #36 of 85)

The more you say, the more obvious it is you are all about BSing your way thru it.


Absolutely! Building Science is the basis of everything I've said.


Apparently you have a problem with objective science and, perhaps like Frenchy, prefer ancecdotal bias, speculation, and uneducated opinion.


 

Riversong HouseWright

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(post #85015, reply #42 of 85)

Yes, I prefer the real world to copying things from books and websites without true understanding of what they mean.

 

 


Welcome to the
Taunton University of
Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
 where ...
Excellence is its own reward!

 

 

Oh Well,

We did the best we could...

(post #85015, reply #37 of 85)

When you first explained that I was (more or less) wrong about PVA being an adhesive agent in primers, you explained that PVA is used as a binder ("Many drywall primers use PVA as the binder in order to seal...").

Three sentences later you said that binders increase adherence to the substrate ("The binder in paint creates the film and also enhances the adherance of the paint to the substrate...").

And you finished that sentence by saying "so in that sense, it's an adhesive".

You have now spent numerous posts claiming that you were right all along. Its a safe assumption for me (and Piffin) that you are implying that I was wrong.

Which I was not, based on what you wrote in post #24 of this thread.

You said it -- PVA is used as a binder, which increased adherence,so in that sense, it's an adhesive.

I agree.

And I'll be Piffin does too.

Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.


Edited 12/26/2008 6:12 pm ET by YesMaam27577

. . . I can't live proud enough to die when I'm gone, So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here. (Phil Ochs)

(post #85015, reply #40 of 85)

You said it -- PVA is used as a binder, which increased adherence,so in that sense, it's an adhesive.


You're right. That's what I said. I was trying to explain the confusion expressed in this thread about paint "containing" adhesives.


Try using PVA drywall primer to glue two pieces of wood together and let me know how you make out.


 

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(post #85015, reply #41 of 85)

You guys are beating a dead horse with semantics on this issue. Why not give it a rest? :o)

(post #85015, reply #43 of 85)

"Try using PVA drywall primer to glue two pieces of wood together "

such a silly statement! NOBODY ever said that primer IS a glue, only that it contains adhesives.

It takes a very insecure person to have such a need to try and twist things to prove himself right all the time. Makes me feel sorry for you.

 

 


Welcome to the
Taunton University of
Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
 where ...
Excellence is its own reward!

 

 

Oh Well,

We did the best we could...

(post #85015, reply #45 of 85)

"Try using PVA drywall primer to glue two pieces of wood together "


such a silly statement! NOBODY ever said that primer IS a glue, only that it contains adhesives.


Of course it's silly. That's the point. And that's why those ingredients are called "binders" not "adhesives".


It takes a very insecure person to have such a need to try and twist things to prove himself right all the time. Makes me feel sorry for you.


And what do you call a person who has to resort to ad-hominen attacks instead of responding to the topic?



 

Riversong HouseWright

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Edited 12/27/2008 2:36 pm ET by Riversong

 
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