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malibuds3's picture

I have heard different ideas but do I need dry wall primer w/ latex paint on new dry wall ?
thanks

(post #85015, reply #46 of 85)

PVA is called an adhesive.

 

 


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(post #85015, reply #47 of 85)

PVA is called an adhesive.


Clearly it is. You just did - incorrectly.


http://www.paintquality.com/library/ingredients.htm


In general terms, all paints have four basic components which impact these properties. These components are:

PIGMENTS
Provide color and hiding; some are used to impart bulk at relatively low cost

BINDER
"binds" the pigment together, and provides film integrity and adhesion

LIQUID
(or the "carrier")provides desired consistency and makes it possible to apply the pigment and binder to the surface being painted

ADDITIVES
low-level ingredients that provide specific paint properties such as mildew resistance, defoaming and good flow and leveling


 

Riversong HouseWright

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(post #85015, reply #48 of 85)

http://www.pslc.ws/mactest/pva.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinyl_acetate

I can do you two for one all day

 

 


Welcome to the
Taunton University of
Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
 where ...
Excellence is its own reward!

 

 

Oh Well,

We did the best we could...

(post #85015, reply #50 of 85)

I can do you two for one all day


Only if you fail to read what you link to. Neither source is from the paint industry.


From your first link: PVA is used to make wood glues, as well as other adhesives.


It is an ingredient in wood glues, but its primary purpose in paint is as a binder, without which the pigment particles would turn to dust.


 


 


 

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(post #85015, reply #52 of 85)

"you fail to read what you link to."

You seem to have that problem. your link contained no less than 17 instances of stating what I have here - that binders are there for adhesion.

 

 


Welcome to the
Taunton University of
Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
 where ...
Excellence is its own reward!

 

 

Oh Well,

We did the best we could...

(post #85015, reply #82 of 85)

boys !   don't make me come over there !


Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

              www.mfsmithbuilder.com

(post #85015, reply #44 of 85)

>>"I was trying to explain the confusion expressed in this thread about paint "containing" adhesives."

You were trying to explain the confusion about paint containing adhesives, and in doing so you explained that paint contains adhesives.

I'm not the one who is confused.

Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
. . . I can't live proud enough to die when I'm gone, So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here. (Phil Ochs)

(post #85015, reply #49 of 85)

This discussion of semantics is becoming tedious. Next, someone will digress into a discussion of 'paints' vs. 'coatings.'


Even in common use, "paint" can mean everything from a lime/water slurry (whitewash) to an epoxy floor 'paint.'


To use my recent shop painting effort as an example ...


The "paint" i used, which had done quite well on the outside of my house, performed pretty poorly on the old, unprimed drywall.


I'm sure everyone here has also done the opposite ... put on a layer of 'primer' ... then just never got around to putting on the top coat. Again, the results are disappointing ... the 'white' doesn't stay that way, sunlight and weather may break it down, and it just never looks very good.


Common ingredients are only part of the story ... I suspect that none here have any trouble telling underwear from work clothing ... though both are made of the same fibers!


A common thread to all this paint discussion is the overlooking of one fact: painting is a SKILLED trade. Now, everyone who has ever painted their bedroom will be tempted to dispute this .... but the real pros manage to do a noticeably better job. These guys may not have the vocabulary, or science, quite "right," but their array of techniques allow them to do a much better job.


Indeed, a lot of the 'research' done by paint makers is an attempt to understand just what the painters have already discovered in the field.


Or .. to put it another way .... if paint makers were so smart, why is there still so much Flotrol still used?

(post #85015, reply #51 of 85)

I'm sure everyone here has also done the opposite ... put on a layer of 'primer' ... then just never got around to putting on the top coat. Again, the results are disappointing ... the 'white' doesn't stay that way, sunlight and weather may break it down, and it just never looks very good.


That's because primers contain considerably less binder. Their job is not to create film strength but to leave a porous surface for the top-coat to latch on to.


Indeed, a lot of the 'research' done by paint makers is an attempt to understand just what the painters have already discovered in the field.


I would have to dispute this. For years, experienced painters insisted that oil paints were superior to latex, and failed to notice that the paint chemists were creating latex paints that far surpassed oil paints except in a few limited applications (such as priming interior trim where the grain might raise, or on high-traffic surfaces).



 

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Solar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes


Edited 12/27/2008 4:08 pm ET by Riversong

 
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(post #85015, reply #74 of 85)

>>"For years, experienced painters insisted that oil paints were superior to latex...."

I have not yet found a latex paint that looks anywhere near as good as a good alkyd paint. It is way to difficult to get the same finished surface -- the same blocking. Every latex job that I have ever seen has brush strokes, or orange peel.

Not so with a good alkyd.

Now if your statement was made about the longevity/durability of the latex versus alkyd, you might be correct. But interior trim almost never needs repainting as a result of the paint being old and worn out. It gets done because of nicks, chips, and color-choice changes.

Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
. . . I can't live proud enough to die when I'm gone, So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here. (Phil Ochs)

(post #85015, reply #75 of 85)

I have to agree with Riversong about latex...........floor finishes as well though. they got a bad rap for years but I've seen some pretty great finishes lately.


They might not hold up as long as oil but over all I think they do pretty well and are a whole lot less hazordous in all kinda ways.


Far as paint goes...paint usually gets redone within 4-5 or less years anyway and they certainly hold up that long.


Ever try Aura latex paint?? EXTREMLY awesome latex paint...expensive but well worth the price in a lot of instances. They get better all the time.


 


(post #85015, reply #76 of 85)

love a quality latex, all I use.

(post #85015, reply #77 of 85)

nice clean sharp looking job...well done dude!!

(post #85015, reply #78 of 85)

porter paint, acrylic eggshell, on all trim, tinted to what they call, 2T. Which really means they splash a bit of brown in the white, that while still white, gives it a rich finish. you probably know all this.

(post #85015, reply #79 of 85)

shiny eggshell. suprised...

(post #85015, reply #81 of 85)

"paint usually gets redone within 4-5 or less years anyway and they certainly hold up that long."

I can't agree. I see some folks who can't tolerate a colour more than 2-3 years, but a lot of them keep the same for 20-30 years. Time the drapes are hung and the art is on the wall, you don't notice the paint much anyway

 

 


Welcome to the
Taunton University of
Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
 where ...
Excellence is its own reward!

 

 

Oh Well,

We did the best we could...

(post #85015, reply #83 of 85)

Time the drapes are hung and the art is on the wall, you don't notice the paint much anyway


Well that I totally agree with...but for those that are a bit nit picky they do repaint within five years from my experience and those that don't probably don't care all that much if the paints faded or whatever it does so using oil seems excessive to me.


I can see oil maybe on trim but now-a-daze I don't see why anyone would bother.


Outside I can understand using oil. I used cottage red Alkyd /oil primer on my entire house topcoated w/BM latex. Over shakes...not shingles Paul...shakes,,,wood shingles (royals are on my roof...lol) it came out bullet proof. It's been several years and it really still looks GREAT! I'm thinking of painting the roof next...hahahaha


(post #85015, reply #84 of 85)

The one place where it's a good idea to use oil-based paints is handrails.  Especially in houses with kids.  It's a lot more resistant to the natural oils and moisture (and in the case of kids, dirt) that is commonly found on our hands.

(post #85015, reply #85 of 85)

I still like the oil Impervo for int trims myself. A lot of my designer's specs have been for Farrow and Ball paints from Europe, which goes very smooth oil or latex. The painters like it.

I think back to the folks I know who paint every few years or less...they seem to me to be the kind of people who are very unhappy with themselves internally, so they try to adjust their outward world in many ways besides just paint colour, in a vain quest to create happiness, when the quest should be an inward journey.

 

 


Welcome to the
Taunton University of
Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
 where ...
Excellence is its own reward!

 

 

Oh Well,

We did the best we could...

(post #85015, reply #53 of 85)

<Or .. to put it another way .... if paint makers were so smart, why is there still so much Flotrol still used?>

lol..that's easy. it goes back to your other statement...

<A common thread to all this paint discussion is the overlooking of one fact: painting is a SKILLED trade>

there are a lot of novices out there is why flotrol is used. ;)

<Indeed, a lot of the 'research' done by paint makers is an attempt to understand just what the painters have already discovered in the field.>

That used to be very true, don't know if it still holds true but it should

our local paint manufacturer's chemist used to ask for our input when formulating paints and we would also field test it for them. good for us and them

Barry E-Remodeler

 


Barry E-Remodeler  

(post #85015, reply #54 of 85)

Excellent response.


Another started his response with "that's because ..."  Learned as the rest of the response may have been, I'd just as soon leave that sort of discussion in the lab with the alchemists.


Why? Because, I really don't care. It matters not a whit to me if the maker uses pixie dust or what incantations are chanted.


What matters to me is that I be able to readily identify what a product is for ... and that the description be accurate!


For example, I expect a "plasitic paint" to .... outshine all else as a paint for plastic. A paint for metal to, well, paint metal.


I've heard all manner of "old wives' tales" .... things along the lines of 'primer is just watered down regular paint." Or, that it's all "just marketing." While it sometimes seems that there is some truth in these claims, I have noticed that the marginal performers tend to get weeded out by the market.


Our OP wanted to know if new drywall needed a primer. One answer was spot-on ... a primer will help the different surfaces (mud and paper) blend in. Others have mentioned their disappointemnt in a single coat of 'regular' paint.


I'm sure there are others who can describe other benefits to using a primer on factory-fresh drywall. What really matters, though, is that the OP realize that a primer has it's own job to do ... which may not be the same as the task of the top coat.


 

(post #85015, reply #55 of 85)

<What really matters, though, is that the OP realize that a primer has it's own job to do ... which may not be the same as the task of the top coat.>

yep, it seemed like such a simple question with a simple answer... didn't it. I originally decided not to pollute the thread with something the OP couldn't use, such as primer/surfacers like Tuff Hide or Builders Solution.

guess that's what makes it BT

Barry E-Remodeler

 


Barry E-Remodeler  

(post #85015, reply #56 of 85)

I just looked, dammm if there isn't primer in my GLUE! Arrrgghhh!


LOL


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(post #85015, reply #57 of 85)

dang I hate when that happens

could be worse though

what if you were to find glue in the primer?

we just might have a new product here :)

Barry E-Remodeler

 


Barry E-Remodeler  

(post #85015, reply #58 of 85)

is the sausage measuring contest over yet?

(post #85015, reply #59 of 85)

I hear it's a common problem with sausage measuring...not enough adhesion

Barry E-Remodeler

 


Barry E-Remodeler  

(post #85015, reply #60 of 85)

Not Adhesion, Binding.

(post #85015, reply #61 of 85)

lol

something is in a bind for sure

maybe the pump needs priming

Barry E-Remodeler

 


Barry E-Remodeler  

(post #85015, reply #64 of 85)

If you're gonna try to bind my sausage, you got an adhesion coming

 

 


Welcome to the
Taunton University of
Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
 where ...
Excellence is its own reward!

 

 

Oh Well,

We did the best we could...

(post #85015, reply #62 of 85)

ever try huffin' latex primer? Ya get all pasty eyed.lol





 


 


http://www.cliffordrenovations.com


http://www.ramdass.org


 


Edited 12/27/2008 10:02 pm ET by andybuildz


Edited 12/27/2008 10:02 pm ET by andybuildz