I’m having a house built for myself and its not my first time but I encountered this problem for the first time. I was wondering if you guys can help me with this. The electrician cut the I-joist in three spots and said that its okay because he had the Framer pack out the I-joists. The framer and the electrician have both said its fine and that they’ve done it a hundred times before but I sent the picture to the engineer and he said no. The framer and the electrician are angry saying that they’ve had this approved by countless engineers before and that this engineer is just being overly cautious. I’m not sure who to believe, obviously ripping down the drops and re-inforcing the i-joists at this point will be an enormous cost. What do you guys think? I have attached a picture below. Thanks in advance for all your help.
P.S. The electrician and framer don’t know each other so I’m finding it tough to disregard both their opinions.
Nick
Replies
I think whoever planned the layout didn't plan it very well.
cutting I joist
If an I joist is specified to carry a designed load then one can't cut the bottom or the top chord. Listen to your engineer.
Beautiful...
You can slice and dice engineered joists in a lot of ways, but I know of know way to cut through the top or bottom flange and still have the joist meets it's load requirements.
If their solution is approved, then fine. Have them provide you with an engineer's analysis with raised seal. No copies. No report from "some other job".
In the mean time, I'd call tech support of the I-joit's manufactuer. Have your photos ready and you can email them to him whle you're on the phone. They'd love to see that one.
The I-joist documentation spells out the allowable holes, and not only will you not find these cuts in them, it should very specifically disallow cutting or notching the flanges. You should show it to the framer and electrician so they don't keep doing it another hundred times. The I-joist manufacturer and/or engineer might be able to recommend repairs to that I-joist where you don't need to rip out the framing underneath, but obviously you'll want to have an alternate plan ready for those cans so they don't need to be in the middle of the I-joist.
Of course, the electrician and framer know that this has been done before and the house has not collapsed as a result, since not EVERY joist was cut. That's likely what they mean by "engineer approved".
(Once again, who designed this mess??)
I agree with most of what's already been voiced although who's responsible for the layout it irrelevant now. I'm also wondering how the joists were "packed out." I'll go out on a limb and bet that the framer's method for this isn't in any code book or engineering manual.
Another thing puzzles me.... On most jobs, the framers are long gone by the time the electrician is on the project. But perhaps the electrician paid the site an early visit and noticed the conflict of having a joist right where he needed to place a light. So he asked the framer to do the reinforcement. If this scenario is correct, then why not simply add or move the joists?
Here's a link that may be of interest to you:
file:///C:/Users/walmart/Downloads/TJ-4000.pdf
While that particular link is from Warehauser, you will find the same information from every TJI maker. This is no accident; they are repeating the industry standard, as published by their trade orginazation, the Engineered Wood Association. APAWood.Org . These standards are , in effect, the building code for these joists.
Looking through all the varied construction details, I find lots of uses for "web stiffeners" - but NONE of them allow you to cut the flange. Shame on the electrician and the framer.
I could be wrong; have them document their solution. Let us know how that works out.
As best I can tell, they have completely compromised the floor above. At best, you'll have a bouncy floor. It's also likely that the floor will sag over time.
So- what to do? Well, it's pretty simple. You can completely remove that particular section of joist, "boxing" around the opening with the proper techniques and hangers. See the construction details in the link above.
I care not how often thay've done this before. An error does not become 'correct' just because they make it many times.
Having problems with the contractors? Have a chat with your local building department, and the Contractors' Board if necessary. There is no excuse for the ignorance of these tradesmen. Heck, I'll bet your insurance company might have an opinion on this.
Well ... almost no excuse. Many folks hire unqualified, illegal contractors for various reasons. Sure, you can sue them - if you can find them- but there's no bond to fall back on. You sure saved money!