Search the forums

Loading

Entry Door Wind Issues

cwcjr09's picture

I have been doing work for a cafe that has issues with its entry door. The door is 4' wide, solid wood / half glass. The main problem is that the cafe is located on a two-lane north/south running street that has a tendency to turn into a wind tunnel. The entry door opens to the exterior perpendicular to the street so any wind blowing tends to catch the door and take it away. Being 4' wide and solid wood, the door has done much damage to itself the property and some of the patrons who attempt to open it on windy days. I have installed a hydraulic closer rated for this type of door without success. The wind caught the door the other day and broke the crash chain in half then door broke the stop installed on the ground outside in half. This is the second time the crash chain has broken. If i adjust the closer to require more force to swing the door customers will have a hard time. What should i do? Is there a way to play with the closer settings to accommodate this or is there another system I should consider? Thanks for any feedback.

You mention closer and crash chain........... (post #200906, reply #1 of 13)

What are you using?

If not a full service commercial closer, then you should look at those.

There's back check which will harden the power when open beyond a certain limit.

And the closing adjustments (more than one) can be fine tuned to almost any situation.

A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.

Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.


http://www.quittintime.com/

 


A couple of years ago I (post #200906, reply #2 of 13)

A couple of years ago I looked for something similar to a "fall arrestor" for this sort of problem but couldn't find anything.  What is needed is a device that allows free motion up to a particular speed and then begins resisting, like a self-retracting fall arrestor for people working on rooftops.  A similar mechanism is used in seatbelt retractors.

Was not able to find anything, though.

Standard "closers" don't really do much good in this sort of situation, since they're generally designed to NOT resist opening, and really only serve to stop the door (suddenly) at the end of travel, rather than slowing it down gradually.

I don't know why nothing seems to be made for this problem -- the technology doesn't seem to be that challenging.


Of all the preposterous assumptions of humanity over humanity, nothing exceeds most of the criticisms made on the habits of the poor by the well-housed, well-warmed, and well-fed.  --Herman Melville

Dan (post #200906, reply #3 of 13)

Real closers meant for commercial applications whether steel, alum full glass or wood do have the function to stop the door b/4 it bangs into whatever is in the way.  It's called a back check.  It can be set to a certain point in the travel of the door when opening.  It will stop the door there.  Prior to that there is a resistance operation that stiffens the opening power.

In addition, there's closing power (that first speedy closing which when sized right will close the door in a wind).

And, in addition again-latching power.  That takes over after the closing power has cushioned it's operation, enough for the final close and latch.

Readily available.  No need to reinvent the wheel.

A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.

Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.


http://www.quittintime.com/

 


Interesting, because I (post #200906, reply #4 of 13)

Interesting, because I watched them try a whole host of closers on the door to our building at my former employers.  Steel door, but it got bent over double repeatedly.  They finally installed a "backstop" with several contact points made from welded steel tubing to keep it under control.

Note that you don't want to stop the door from opening beyond a certain point so much as you want it to slow if opening too rapidly.  By the time the door's gotten to, say, 90 degrees to the building it's already moving too fast, if the wind has caught it.


Of all the preposterous assumptions of humanity over humanity, nothing exceeds most of the criticisms made on the habits of the poor by the well-housed, well-warmed, and well-fed.  --Herman Melville

Dan (post #200906, reply #5 of 13)

I'm not going to sit here and argue with you.

Certainly there are situations where a door design cannot be fixed by a closer.

And, there are certainly poor installations, bogus equipment and other extenuating circumstances.

However, there are closers that do slow the opening speed and with the proper arm installations can still open when needed while keeping it from swinging beyond the degree desired and in a safe manner.  Certain conditions limit what can be used (ADA opening force), but these can be dealt with using the auto openers.

I can't say this often but this time I can.  I have installed hundreds of closers in many different configurations of door travel.  Many were in really horrible conditions of use.  With the proper equipment you can make it work.  There's no mileage that may vary.  It can be done.

A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.

Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.


http://www.quittintime.com/

 


Well, I haven't seen a closer (post #200906, reply #6 of 13)

Well, I haven't seen a closer that appears to work the "right" way to really properly handle this situation.  They may exist, but not to my knowledge.

(And even if the commercial unit is available, one shouldn't have to install a super-duper commercial closer on a residential screen door -- it's strange (and a bit silly) that a proper closer isn't available in a light-duty version.)


Of all the preposterous assumptions of humanity over humanity, nothing exceeds most of the criticisms made on the habits of the poor by the well-housed, well-warmed, and well-fed.  --Herman Melville

Dan (post #200906, reply #7 of 13)

Is there anything that suggests this is a screen door other than the "hydraulic closer and crash chain"?

I see 4' wide solid wood half glass.

A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.

Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.


http://www.quittintime.com/

 


No.  I was just remarking (post #200906, reply #8 of 13)

No.  I was just remarking that the problem is probably most severe on screen doors, for which there is no good solution.


Of all the preposterous assumptions of humanity over humanity, nothing exceeds most of the criticisms made on the habits of the poor by the well-housed, well-warmed, and well-fed.  --Herman Melville

Well ... you might consider (post #200906, reply #12 of 13)

Well ... you might consider an architectural solution rather than focus on the door and hardware. The wind is more than catching the door ... it is infiltrating unconditioned air into the building.

How about a wind brake ... er I meant break? Conceptually a short wall coming out from the building to screen/block the wind. This assumes you have room between the door and the sidewalk. Need to take a bit of care designing it but it would help.

There ain't NO free lunch. Not no how, not no where!

The wind block is an (post #200906, reply #9 of 13)

The wind block is an interesting idea. Site may be a little too tight for that concept but i am going to do a take off and drawings to scale to play around with it.

As for the hardware: What i had installed was a commercial grade closer for a door of that weight (and more). I guess I will try adjusting the settings/backcheck again

The wind block is an (post #200906, reply #10 of 13)

The wind block is an interesting idea. Site may be a little too tight for that concept but i am going to do a take off and drawings to scale to play around with it.

As for the hardware: What i had installed was a commercial grade closer for a door of that weight (and more). I guess I will try adjusting the settings/backcheck again

cw (post #200906, reply #11 of 13)

What brand and model did you get?

A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.

Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.


http://www.quittintime.com/

 


If you don't have the doors (post #200906, reply #13 of 13)

If you don't have the doors width to erect a wind break, the owner may have other issues ... the liability of the wind catching the door and slamming it into a pedestrian, jogger, etc. that happens to be walking by. Current building codes don't allow doors to swing into a crossing path like that. A more expensive fix ... recess the door (or less expensive depending on the total cost of litigation for an injury). I'm not encouraging anything specific since you are the only one between us that really has the knowledge of the existing conditions. Just food for thought.

There ain't NO free lunch. Not no how, not no where!