Hi, I am Uff, live in SouthEast Va. in a 80 yr.old home with failing exterior stucco. I just learned that the stucco contains asbestos.
I am afraid that my original plan of removal/ disposal and re stuccoing the house will be prohibitively expensive.
My stucco contractor has offered an option of demolition and repairs limited to the sections of stucco that are actually pulling away from the house, then powerwashing all paint off the house,then putting on a thin coat of cement imbedded with a fiberglass mesh, finally finnishing with a top coat of stucco to get the desired finish.
Anyone ever hear of this approach? Any thoughts on weather it will work?
Replies
Hi Uff,
Welcome to Breaktime. You new here, or a longtime lurker?
To answer your question, we need more information.
Is the stucco the original siding from 1926? It has been painted, right? Please describe how it is failing, and what % of the stucco looks sound.
Is the asbestos the reason removal and replacement is too expensive?
Are you doing or planning to do any other exterior work on this house? What shape are the windows and exterior doors in?
Some advantages to completely replacing the stucco include:
Asbestos gone from your life
Opportunity to insulate walls
Opportunity to redo air/rain barrier(s)
Opportunity to integrate new windows/doors with waterproofing and siding
Opportunity to move/change layout of openings
Opportunity to apply a different type of siding to the home (If you want to; nothing wrong with stucco.)
Hope this helps.
Bill
Thanks for the reply.
This is my first time at Taunton, so that makes me a newbie. My son Karl(a lot smarter than I) recommended that I visit here for some expert advice.
My home is in a 'Historic District' with rules that require any exterior work done on homes result in as close to 'as designed' as possible. In my case, stucco must be maintained as stucco, and existing openings must be maintained or returned to 'as designed' configuration.
As for the stucco itself, I have owned this home for about 4 yrs. The stucco has been obviously patched and repaired in places over its lifetime. My guess is that about 80% is original, the balance having been worked on at various times in the interveening 80+yrs.
I have observed several cracks on 3 sides of the house, large bubbles where I think repairs have been done on 2 sides, and a 8' x 10' area on the street side that visibally moves in & out when I press on it.
The asbestos was a very unwelcome 11th hour discovery. My brother Mike, a Mechanical Engineer, suggested that asbestos was used as a filler in many applications before being outlawed, and before tearing into it I should have the stucco tested.
My original (pre asbestos)plan was to do one side of the housa at a time, my son was to tear off the stucco and lath, repair whatever problems we uncover, have a contractor insulate, my son would then resheathe that side, install new windows and tyvec. Next, a stucco contractor was going to apply the 3 coats of stucco, and finally a coat of paint.(the house is now a dusty pink(uggh!)
Plan B has been proposed by the stucco contractor, powerwash all paint off the house, demolish any old stucco that we can identify as loose-ie the 8 x 10 area noted above. Repair the demolished areas. Apply a thin coat of morter with fiberglass mesh to yield a uniforme surface. Finish with a skim coat.
I wanted to replace the windows, but have not yet located what I want. The 2nd story windows were originally designed to be double casement without a pole in the middle. All double casement windows I have found so far have a bar in the middle, and with the bar, the window fials the building code egress requirement. So, I may have to leave the windows alone.
Some years ago, I found casements without the center meeting bar. As I recall, they were made by Kolbe & Kolbe (http://www.kolbe-kolbe.com). They were nice units, came with brickmold with an automotive finish. Sadly, I had to tear off the brickmold to use 1x trim to match the rest of the house.
I can't locate my records on that one, but I seem to recall each unit costing about $1200 in the late 90s, for a window about 4' wide and maybe 3' tall.
Couldn't find anything on their website, but I submitted a question, will gey back to you if I hear anything.
Tom, thank you, I will try and locate a vendor in this area, sounds like a great reference.
Interesting to hear that you're looking for double casement windows with no fixed stop in the center. I'm building my own right now, 2 sets for upstairs and 3 sets for the main floor. Before I started, I looked around at what was done by the companies- this type of window is a little rare, but not unheard of. Marvin makes the French Casemaster that is this type of window, and Marvin is one of the best.
http://www.marvin.com/default.aspx?page=French_Casemaster
good luck with the house.
zak
Thanks, I have installed Marvin windows in a previous home and agree, it worked out very well. I will check out their current offerings.
> - this type of window is a little rare, but not unheard of.
Interesting. Here in Los Angeles, they're very common. The vast majority of pre-WWII houses in upscale neighborhoods have them. Casements in front, double hung facing the alley is quite common on period revival buildings.
-- J.S.
Hi uff,
A friend here, Albemarle county, faced a similar problem. His had dryvit that was failing. Estimate somewhat N of $100k (good-sized house) to replace. I suggested two options: For Sale sign, or copper over the dryvit.
He opted for the sign. New owner got the dryvit patched, not invisibly. Working for them. He got me to build him a house that I sheathed in copper.
Legal disposal will be expensive, but something you probably want to explore before you decide. Resale considerations.
To answer your question about your contractor's offer, sounds plausible, but if any step isn't quite right, likely to fail.
How much do you like stucco?
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Hi Tom, Thanks for the input.
I am not familiar with dryvit, is that the new synthetic stucco I have seen around?
I am nervous about my contractors plan, mostly in that it will be an expensive band-aid with the problems reappearing again in a few years time.
The for-sale option is sounding better and better!
Uff, you're welcome.
Right, dryvit's a brand name. My friend's house was done in it, the best stucco job I've ever seen, until it started to fail. One contractor here has an incredible crew. And pricing to match. When I checked, several yrs ago, he was $7/ft with no deductions for doors or windows. That's when I changed my plan and went with copper for my house. No historic designation here. I saved thousands and got something that won't crack or require any maintenance.
The other part of my friend selling his place was a marital split. He was also aware that my house (passive heating and cooling) was considerably more comfortable than his huge post&beam sips with the stucco.
I'd speculated on a lot in the nearby village. He bought at my price with the understanding I'd build a house similar to mine for him. Worked out pretty well. His mortgage appraisal came in 50% greater than construction cost. Instant equity, no cost (or maintenance) creature comfort, zero exterior maintenance (copper clad windows even). He figured life was pretty good. New wife liked it as well.
If you change, go for a house that takes care of you. Not the other way around. I love old houses, just wouldn't want to be beholden to one.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Tom,You wrote, "If you change, go for a house that takes care of you. Not the other way around."Very wise words these are. Few will understand them until after much has already been lost.Bill
Thank you Bill, glad I struck a chord. This is not my first place. Previous one (Denver) was built in 1911. It was OK, this one's better. I did a lot of reading first. Still do. Our next house is very similar to the current one.
I also realize some like maintenance more than I do. Or at least dislike it less. Do it once- enjoy it forever... makes sense to me. Now if I could just figure out glazing....PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Thank You...my son was right, this sight is awsome!!! A fantastic source for information.
If the stucco is bad, and too much to replace, how about going over it with fibercement? The main problem with that approach is you would have to fur out with 2X to get a level nailing surface.
I have not heard of the exact procedure you described, but it would likely work unless there is a lot of delamination.
My house is about that same age, and with failing stucco. The problem with mine is that they used a manufactured lath product that had chicken wire, wood lath, and one-sided tar paper pre-assembled. When it went up, they didn't overlap the tar paper, so water poured thru the stucco and into the framing. If they had that same stuff back on the East coast, it could be the source of your problem.
As for casement windows with a simple astragal, you might be better off to forget about the big national brand factory windows and find a local shop or craftsman who'll make them for you. Ideally, you'll get someone who'll come out in person to measure, and take full responsibility for getting them right. Being in an historic district, ask your neighbors. Look around for houses that have new windows, and ask.
-- J.S.
Just got a response, here it is. Click on the third link, and then click on "French Casements". Sizes are limited, but at least you'll have a place to start. Hope it helps!
Dear Tom:
Thank you for visiting the Kolbe Web site! Yes, we do still manufacture an
outswing French casement window. The outswing French window is available
in both our Heritage and Ultra Series. You may review information
regarding the units on our Web site, at the address links provided below:
http://www.kolbe-kolbe.com/homeOwner/index.cfm?page=products&sub=windowsInfo&id=2&detail=1
http://www.kolbe-kolbe.com/homeOwner/index.cfm?page=products&sub=windowsInfo&id=2&detail=2
http://www.kolbe-kolbe.com/files/woodSpecs/SizeCharts_HeritageUltra-csmts.pdf
For pricing, ordering and additional product information, the Kolbe Window
& Door dealer near you will be happy to help you. To locate the Kolbe
Window & Door dealer nearest you, please contact our distributor in your
area:
Shenandoah Sash & Door
37277 E. Richardson Ln.
PO Box 2310
Purcellville, VA 22132
ph# (540) 338-2555 or 1-800-451-5314
fax# (540) 338-3919
Thank you for your continued interest in Kolbe windows and doors!
Sincerely,
Sharon Jacobi
Marketing Product Specialist
Kolbe Windows & Doors
(715) 842 - 5666, extension 1783
[email protected]
http://www.kolbe-kolbe.com
there is a wood window place in Canada called Yarrow Sash And Door...it's in Winnipeg and they have high quality with canadian prices"I hate quotations. Tell me what you know" Ralph Waldo Emerson
Thank you, Do you know if they have a web site?
www.yarrow.mb.ca
this is their web site"I hate quotations. Tell me what you know" Ralph Waldo Emerson
Thank You.
Great, thank you very much Tom.
I have a question: how did you find out there was asbestos in the stucco and what are the qualifications of the person who told you about the asbestos?
If your source tells you asbestos is present, have a couple of random samples, pulled from various locations along the wall, sent off to a geological lab for analysis. They could easily tell you if asbestos is indeed present. Don't do it locally but rather send it off to a lab in another state.
If you do indeed have asbestos present and the local authority knows about it, your stuck.
I took a not very random sample to a local chem.lab and they did the analysis.
I asked them to come back with a technitian to do a more scientific sampeling hopeing that the scope of the problem can be narrowed down.
Do you think its legal to send material suspected to be asbestos through the mail?
Asbestos is only a problem with long term exposure to fine dusk particals.Friable material (flakes easy) requires special handling. For example the asbestos wrap that used to be used on heating pipes. Removing cause it to crumble and relase the particals.OTOH thinks like fiber cement side wall shingles the abestos is encapsutlated in the product and it is safe to handle unless your crush it up. And in some case it can put disposed of in ordinary trash.Now removing the stucco will cause some cracking, but if care is ued then the amount of fibers release can be minimized. And it also depends on the percent of abestos in the stucco.You need to check with your state and find out what the requires are for your specific problem and then see how much of an extra expense that it would be.
You can safely remove asbestos laiden stucco (usually has only trace amounts) with water saturation and disposable coveralls and a good resperator. However, in order to cover my a$$, I have to say...Don't try this @ home kids!
Take your own sampels and have them tested out of state like ====== said before.
TRIGGER
Thank You Bill. What/who is OTOH?
OTOH = On The Other Hand, in internet shorthand.
How did you resolve the stucco problem?
I have a client with a similar problem. What did you do? What would you do differently?
Whatever uff did, they did it 9 years ago.