What’s the deepest hand dug well you’ve ever seen?
We’ve had a well in the back yard ever since we moved in here. The well top is fairly old and in poor condition. So I figured it was time to think about filling the thing in. (Trying to prep the place to rent out)
My Son and I tied the few scraps of ropes together that we had, stuck some vice grips on the end of the rope for weight, and dropped it down. I told him I figured it was only about 20 or 25′ deep, as hand digging a well was tough work. But the ropes we had weren’t long enough. We scrounged around for some more – Finally had to add a 50′ section of air hose to be able to reach the bottom.
Turns out the well is 57′ deep.
The house we live in was built between 1900 and 1910. And the well top has a 1913 date inscribed in it. So the thing HAD to be hand dug. But I’ve never heard of a hand dug well that deep.
One other thing it had – The bricks were laid up in a spiral. I’ve heard that hand dug wells were done that way.
Seems like digging something that deep would have been extraordinarilly dangerous. If you had a cave-in, there would be no hope of rescue.
Just curious to hear if wells that deep were common.
Asking me about analogies is like… okay, I may be the wrong man to ask. [John Laroquette]
Replies
What's the diameter? Do you still use it for water?
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
The thing is 3' 6" inside daimeter.
We're in town, so we've never used it. The city water system was put in during the 1930s, so I'd venture to guess that it hasn't been used since that time.
Don't see any pipes going out the side so I'm guessing there never was an electric pump hooked to it. The concrete top looked like there used to be a hand pump on top of it.Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
I remember as kid at my GP's in Pa. the old well..had a capstan to hitch a horse or whay ever to..and a pulley on a stone arch..we ( my brother and cousins) would drop rocks down it..and waaaaaaiiiittt...for a splash...
My Gfather..said it was 80 feet..with, 20 foot of water..now how did they dig the last 20'?
BTW..the well was dug in 1735..about 4' dia.
I dunno..I heard that if you at the bottom..ya can see stars in the sky..in daytime.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
I think kenny runion said that in one of the Fox fire Books.
Thers a bunch of them around here,the most amazing one was about 60' deep lined in field stone but the opening was less than 2' across.How the hades they ever laid the rock is beyond me.Hanging by thier heels?If you ever dropped one u'd never be able to pick it up again.Ive heard of laying a ring and underdigging it so it dropped lower and lower ut itd have to be big enuf to stand in and work.
I have all those books..might be worth a reread..
mostly, I feel..the secrets are all long dead.."if theres a well, there's a way"..
Ok bad pun..sorry
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
I have Fox-fire up to volumn 5. are there any more?
mine are still packed..I just moved..but I have 8..
Elliot Wigginton (I think) got popped by the 5-0..down there in Clayton Ga....messin with the youngins..too bad it was good effort..
I'd have ta research to see where the train left the tracks..
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
I've been around quite a few hand dug wells, but never one that deep.
The strangest one I've seen was on a ranch about thirty or forty miles north of Helena, MT. It was only about 25 feet deep, but it had an opening at the top about eight feet across which then belled out to about 20 feet across at the bottom. I went down a ladder into it with a buddy because he was living with the water and it had gone dry. He dug about five more feet of hole that was the more typical 3 feet or so across and had water again. That well was not lined at all, but was in very rocky ground mostly made up of fist to soccer ball sized rocks. Whoever dug it originally must have wanted water right there pretty bad.
Another completely mystifying well I know of is in a granite canyon about 15 miles north of where I live in Colorado. It is right in the bottom of the very narrow canyon and is lined with what looked to me to be hand riveted steel. It's about 5 or 6 feet across and maybe 12 or 15 feet deep. I can't even imagine how it was put in, but there are a number of hard to believe digging projects around here. Local lore has it that when the coal mine strikes during the years before WWI were going on (anyone hear of the Ludlow Massacre?), out of work miners were hired to do all sorts of things that the ranchers would never have been able to do on there own.
Edited to say: I was under the impression that it wasn't worth going down farther than about 30 feet in the old days because the hand pumps they had available wouldn't pump water higher than about 22 to 25 feet.
You're unique! Just like everyone else! Scott Adams
Edited 6/6/2004 8:55 pm ET by Hasbeen
>> ... pumps they had available wouldn't pump water higher than about 22 to 25 feet.
That sounds like the limit on suction pumps. A pressure setup, with the pump at the bottom of the well would only be limited by the physical strength of the pump and the operator.
A column of water 2 inches in diameter by 72 feet high weighs about 100 pounds. If you assume 10:1 leverage on the pump handle, no problem. Of course that doesn't count the weight of the pump rod, or all the frictional losses.
The worlds biggest hand-dug well is 109 feet deep and 32 feet in diameter, and is in Greensburg, Kansas. It's a tourist attraction now. It's pretty famous.
http://www.bigwell.org/bigwell.html
One of the old well drillers told me that they would dig a circle that a wagon tire would fit in and then slip planks down the outside of the tire to hold the well . Then when they got to the water they started laying up the rock or brick quickly . Another oldtimer also told me a story simular to that .
Brick-lined, hand-dug wells were fairly common in the area of Kent, UK, in which I lived.
The brick-lining was often done as the well was dug, starting from the top and spiralling down. The bottom course of brickwork [9' Thick], was supported on stakes driven into the side of the excavation. When water-level was reached the head joints were left unfilled so water could seep in.
We were always pleased to find an old well on a site because the well-pipe was 3" diameter lead with a high silver content and tradition is that all scrap is sold and the money used for the site Christmas Party.
IanDG
Boss,
we run across abandoned wells somewhat frequently in our work (mass earthwork).
Here, different municipalities have different requirements for filling them in. but in general we use bentonite to fill abandoned wells. It's the stuff they use in kitty litter, it swells four times or something of its original volume when wet. It comes in 50-lb bags at a wholesale yard.
The concern with abandoning wells is contaminating the ground water. I suppose sand would work good too.
This isn't on the spec house, is it?
remodeler
The well isn't on the spec house property - It's by the house we live in now.
Around here, you have to contact the health department and have them come out. You have to pump the well dry first. They want to make sure there are no dead bodies or trash in them, I guess.
Then you remove the top 3' or so of the well structure. Then pour some bleach in to sterilize it. Then you have to fill it in with soil of the same type that surrounds the well.
Haven't talked to the health department directly - I got this from an excavator that does this regularly. So I think the info is reliable.
So I'm afraid to call them. With a 60' deep well, it would be very difficult to pump dry. And once they're there, they can tell me I have to do just about anything they want, no matter how much it costs. And I can't change my mind and tell 'em to go away.
Pouring a new 1,000# concrete top is starting to sound like a good idea - Something the neighborhood kids can't move. It would probably be cheaper than any scheme the health dept. would dream up.All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing. [Edmund Burke]
It would probably be cheaper than any scheme the health dept. would dream up Yeah, but the problem is future potential liabilty, if the ground water gets contaminated and they can point the finger at you. Probably better to bite the big bullet now and get it closed with official approval.Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
I was thinking of filling it in vs. just putting a new concrete cap on top of it.
I don't think they can make me fill it in. As long as it has a cap and is safe, it's just a well.
But as soon as they find out it's there, anything they want to do (with my money) is fair game. I'm concerned that once it's on their radar they'll be watching it for a heck of a long time.Special interest groups that run political advertisements should pay their opponents to respond. [Democratic presidential candidate Bill Bradley]
here's a copy of an earlier post of mine, now I'm wondering if we filled an old well.
General Discussion - Surprise, surprise, surprise!
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From:
JAGWAH
8/7/2003 8:38 am
To:
ALL
(9 of 47)
33621.9 in reply to 33621.8
Years ago while helping my dad with a foundation repair on an old Oklahoma farm house, the client mentioned snakes and critters gettin in the back door. We went to the back of the house which turned out to be an old lean-to porch extension she said was put on back in the 30's. After pulling up a few floor boards we discovered a hole about 10' across with the top of water about 3' down.
Turned out to be a an old, very old, cistern that still caught run-off.
My dad wouldn't let be treble hook or drag the cistern, darn. Just knew I'd find a pirates booty. My dad said I might find "ol' uncle fred".
Anyway long story short it took two 12yard dumpsters of sand and 3 days of my back to shovel that sucker full.
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Hey Boss, Jag has an interesting idea. Fill your well mostly to the top with sand, then cap with concrete. The sand will at least give you a bottom form for the concrete.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
If I fill it in, there's no reason for it to have a concrete cap.
The concrete cap idea was only if I leave it as a well. It would keep kids/pet/trash from getting in there.We believe that lasting peace comes only through strength and not through the good will of our adversaries. [Ronald Reagan, 1988 GOP Convention]
Just curious, nothing to do with your dilemma, do you know if it's dirt all the way down to 57' or did they hit rock at some point? Also (maybe I missed this), how far down is the water level?
I have no idea. The water was within`12' of the surface. So there's obviously no way to tell what's down there.Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life. [Dean Vernon Wormer, advice to John Blutarsky, in "Animal House"]
I could be wrong here, but I think if you fill it with sand and don't cap it, you might have a problem. You would have a column of sand with water entering the bottom and percolating up to some level...isn't that the definition of quicksand?
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Using sand isn't an option anyway - The local health department requires that it be filled in with dirt similar to what's in the soil around it.
Don't know how they determine what's acceptable, though. It's not like you can see through the brick liner...Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. [Bill Watterson]
Put on a new [heavy ] top add a hand pump "for wateringthe flowers" ;-) That will be the cheapest and best way . That way it is not hidden ,abandoned and it is rendered safe from rugrats falling in.
I think also Illinois law states that the well has to be cut down below the surface 10' and sealed with a material like bentonite inorder to be abandoned .
Ron, Don is likely correct on IL law, except maybe not the 'cut down' part, but at least filled with impermeable material -- here in WA abandoning a well requires 20 ft of concrete, clay, or bentonite seal/fill below surface. IL web site should ahve all the info if like WA, as there are plenty of WA state regs about wells on the internet! Anyway, the clay or bentonite is probably free as all there is after topsoil in Carlinville until you hit coal is clay anyway, right? Your well likely runs thru a few 6 inch to 2 + ft coal seams on the way down. I'm so cheap I'd be tempted to pump/ line the well and see if I could get next year's heating out of the top seam. I recall from the core samples taken in the '60's for a new IL state office building in Springfield that there was a 3 ft coal seam at just 40 ft down.
As to depth, notwithstanding the previously mentioned web site, which I'm inclined to think that that is just for the USA, the following is offered. An old co-worker who was an Italian post WWI imigrant/refugee told of his old family place in the boot of Italy that had a marble lined hand dug well that was 190 ft deep with marble stairway even, apparently dating from Roman times. And, of course, there is the 1000 ft plus hand 'drilled' well (cable drilled, stirrups and piece of iron) in China as described in a 1960 Scioentific American article.
As to terminology, you could consider a hand dug mine for coal (or gold, silver, etc) as also a well, as there is always water. My GGgrandfather in Venedy IL dug a few hundred ft deep coal mine, water was a big problem, not the sought after goal of coal. Newton et. al. made all their discoveries on engines trying to get the water out of hundreds of ft deep hand dug English and Scottish mines.
Ediit PS:
Was mowing the ballfield at Camp Cilca in Cantrall, IL ( 50 mi North of Boss) in late '60's, and old Ford tractor dropped a wheel into a 'hole'. Lo and behold, a dry 30 ft deep brick lined well nobady knew was there, probably from civil war era. Had to fill and cap it.
DW's 2nd least favorite construction job of all time is hauling the buckets out of a 18 ft deep hand dug well we did together in the early '70s (we was poor folk and had NO cash then for fancy stuff like paying somebody to drill even that shallow) , her LEAST favorite job was tarring foundation walls!.
Edited 6/8/2004 12:05 am ET by JUNKHOUND
The one we dug up was over 30'ish feet deep and was HUGE and hand built and you can guess about how old it was.
The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Hey, whilst on the subject of wells. Where did the saying " colder than a well diggers azz" come from? Or is that just one of many "dad" sayings that don't always make sense. He's from NE and sometimes his colloquialisms don't always float to the top.
I've also heard that saying.
I figure a well digger was bent over in the cramped shaft most of the time. There wasn't a lot of room to work, so his rear end was always against the cold, wet ground.
Just speculation, but I'm guessing that's where that saying came from.Dare to be stupid. [Weird Al Yankovic]
Our neighbors (a school!) had one that could have been that deep. It wasn't shored up well. A Health Dept. official informed me that ANY hand dug well could collapse at the sides, even if bricked up on the inside. Our county made the school fill it in and I was greatly relieved.
For safety's sake, I'd fill this one in too, and tip some chlorine down there first. The best fix would be to dredge it first, because it may connect to your aquifer and who knows who or what is down there. (any missing people in your area?). Dredging would get any rotting carcases out of there. It sounds horrid and expensive, but that's my opinion. If the well is on common ground, maybe a community could raise the cash and hire a boom truck with the right tools.
Hmmm, just thinking out loud here, Ron . . . before you fill it, if that's what you decide to do, you might want to price the tubing / pipe for a ground loop for a future Geo-thermal heat and cooling system. The tubing is probably dirt cheap and you, or a future owner might really appreciate the foresight.
Can you imagine what that hole would cost you if you were going to put in Geo-thermal ?
Or . . . you could cut it up and sell the sections of hole to the next guy you bid pole-barn trusses for ! ! ! !
Greg
I'm trying to get the house ready to rent out, as we'll soon be moving out. Since the furnace and AC are pretty new I wouldn't have any reason to consider a ground source HVAC system.
Cutting it up and selling it for used post holes sounds more reasonable, though. (-:
I wonder if I could list them on ebay...Action may not always bring happiness, but there is no happiness without action. [Benjamin Disraeli]