Hi,
I bought some tile and am figuring out how much to pay for it to be installed on a concrete floor in my basement.
There’s a drain in the middle of the floor and the floor is pretty level. The tiles are about 18″ x 18″ and the space is 218″ x 164″.
How many days should it take to complete and what should I expect to pay a contractor?
Best,
ww
Replies
Not knowing where AVR's woods are......
Here, in NW Oh. a tile contractor will start tomorrow on about 50 more sf than yours. 1st floor however, and over wood framing. A two size pattern. Tile supplied by owner, labor-thinset-grout-sealer supplied by installer. 2 day setting, grout, seal. 1700.00.
UPDATE: 1 long day setting, 2/3's day grout. Couple hours sealing.
They made good money.
randomly giving quotes for a different job
AVR's woods are in lower NY and the quote relates to the question asked. I definitely realize it could be a lot less but I'm factoring in time and materials for possibly leveling, ditra, raising the drain if needed, sealing, grout, baseboards or other fnishing. Definitely higher end number and can be done for less.
AVR
That's good for you to expand on what you were figuring. He asked for setting tile. He might have keeled over thinking that's all your figures included. Of course, each situation is different and you now have indicated some other costs that might be attached to job.
thanks.
Maybe an allowance for e.g. pattern? The OP didn't say anything about this. Assume just straight tile parallel to the walls, I suppose. No border, no fancy stuff, just a straight grid. Although I suppose some tilers would say that e.g. a diagnonal is easier? Not sure.
I'd price this out at about $2500., coulsd be more - ror less . PersaoabNALLY, THOSE LARGER TILES ARE A pita FOR MNE to get right.
hi ww
in vancouver, b.c., you could expect to pay about $5/sq' for ceramic or porcelain and about $8/sq' for stone, like slate. price would include setting materials and grout but exclude uncoupling membrane and tile/grout sealer.
tirfond
Thx for the reply.
I was expecting about 2500.
I'm pretty handy for a civilian. Is this something I may be able to do with a rental tile cutter and a helper?
How easy or hard is it to screw up? And if I screw up, how hard is it to fix or hide? :)
ww
Thx for the reply.
I was expecting about 2500.
I'm pretty handy for a civilian. Is this something I may be able to do with a rental tile cutter and a helper?
How easy or hard is it to screw up? And if I screw up, how hard is it to fix or hide? :)
ww
not bad
If you are handy I'm sure you could tackle it. If you plan to do it yourself you can find a ton of information and really helpful people at the forum on johnbridge.com. It is a tiling specific forum and if you post details of your thread, people will walk you through the entire project from start to finish.
Andrew
It is a DIY possibility
Laying tile is not complicated: Mix thinset, let it slake, mix it again (directions are on the package). Butter the back of the tile to ensure a good bond, spread thinset on the floor with a notched trowel, set the tile making sure that there is thinset under every square inch (no hollow spots). Use spacers to get even lines and keep yourself square.
What can be more complicated is all the work before you start. Checking the floor level, evaluating cracks in the concrete to determine if you need and underlayment like ditra, determining layout and getting your starting lines. If you have an adequate subfloor that is very level, setting the tile is a simple operation. Hard labor, but a simple operation. if there are a few irregularities in the floor, it can be raelly challenging to get the tile to come out level. If you are doing an easy layout, the cuts shouldn't be too hard (all square cuts) and a rented wet saw is very easy to use if you have any experience with other tools.
Grouting is also simple, unless you are opting for epoxy or other specialty grounts. For cement based grouts, you mix the grout according to the directions on the bag, start spreading it on the floor and use a float to make sure all joints are completely filled. use a damp sponge to get as much grout as possible off the tile and to "tool" your grout lines. after it has set up you clean it again, and I use a cheap plastic BBQ scrubber to get any stubborn grout off the tiles. A quick buff and grouting is done. After a few days you can seal the grout. If you are using a porus tile, you want to seal the tile before grouting and then seal everything after grouting.
When I did my first tile job, I started with a storage room. I had some learning experiences and it didn't come out perfect. by the time I did a room that people would actually see and would see some traffic I was pretty comfortable with the process. There is certainly more to it than my simple explanation, but if you are pretty handy, laying tile is not a tough thing to learn how to do.
Thx for the tips to all.
This is a wash room and the tiles are natural stone, nothing fancy.
I just have to build a simple grid that goes around the hot water heater and then move the floor drain 1/4" up. A few spots of the cement floor have cracks and are a little bowed.
I may take a crack at this, no pun intended.
-ww
If some cracks are visible.........
and no more movement anticipated-for sure use a crack isolation membrane. You might be able to bridge a small crack, but why take the chance. Stone cracks easier than porcelain.
The waves might be able to be built up with thinset or use a leveling compound first-no need for self leveling-you, a screed and a bag of it should be able to feather out the problem.
Grid the whole thing in spaces you can reach to set the tile while on your knees. Take the measurements from the outside edge of a tile to the outside edge of what will be your grout width, using maybe two or three tiles wide x the same deep. Center them or make the border cuts look good. What you do will appear as a large checkerboard with 2 or 3 x 2 or 3 tiles in each box.
Register flat off of the tiles surrounding. Find the right thinset for your stone, use the proper grooved trowel for the size of the tile.
best of luck.
damn BIG washroom, IMO!!!!
Those cracks are what would cost you if I did it - or most any other good pro. You are in need of a decoupler, llke Ditra
Secretary did 1800-sf
My last secretary did 1800-sf over slab on grade concrete by herself, by reading a couple of books from the library. One was Michael Bryne's published by Taunton. I'd reccomend it, or any newer ones that Taunton has published since.
She read her books, borrowed a tile saw from one of the guys, and away she went. The shop she bought the tile from did a few of the more complacted cuts for her for free, (helps if your a cute buxom redhead).
She said the hardest part was getting the old carpet, and sheet vinyl ripped out, and the floors cleaned up.
For a tile backsplash in our kitchen I purchased a tile saw at HD, used it for the job, then sold it for half the original price on Craig's List. Sold within 3-4 days of listing. Was far cheaper than renting a saw, and I wasn't stuck with a tool I'd never use again afterwards.
I just finished a floor about a month ago a bit bigger than that using 16x16" travertine.
YOu left out far too many details such as what type tile, natural stone is more work. Boarders? ?The boarder I cut took longer than the field...or at least as long as the field tile.
Prep? What kind?
Access?
Time of year? If I had to use my wet saw now in this cold weather the prep would be a LOT more.
Expansion joints?
The simplest job could go for $10 a sq ft.
http://picasaweb.google.com/andybuildz/BlairBasementTileWork?authkey=Gv1sRgCJaS0_qhjKjmMA#slideshow/5558204108950196642
http://picasaweb.google.com/andybuildz/BlairBasementBathroomRedux?authkey=Gv1sRgCOj6p4zBhvnawwE#slideshow/5558537801778000946
Boarders?????
Dang itall ?Andy!!!
You can't be charging rent on jobs now man.
18 x 13
You aren't going to get a straight answer to this because every project has so many variables. You'll get a few people berating you for trying to fish for a price in fact. That being said, in my neck of the woods I would be at about $3500 and maybe 5-6 days.. not all full days. Tough call though.. I sit for hours sometimes looking over my notes and detailing a job when I do estimates.
18x7 ?
$3500 for half the floor to be done? If you can't do the math, I'd hesitate to have you do the job. You'd have the tile layout all screwed up. I see where you sit for hours going over notes (and hopefully double checking your calcs).
woah there
Who said anything about doing half the floor? And excuse me if I like to be thorough when I do estimates and take my time. I didnt say this estimate would take me hours. The description was very vague and i gave a high worst case scenario price. I expected a few lower prices, perhaps some jovial criticism and some back and forth on pricing but I'm not sure why you choose to post such a rude response.
AVR
Clew got a little short in his response-
His beef is that you put 18x7 in your subject box when the room dimensions are 18 x 13+..................
lol whoops. edited.
Sorry ... just friendly jab .. the job was 18 x 13+ not 18x7 ... so you implied you were doing half the floor. If you would have taken your time, you would have realized your math error.
As the other poster said, your follow up clarification was much appreciated. People don't like answers w/out some perspective that goes with it. Otherwise they learn nothing.
No offense intended ... just kidding about your apparent lack of mathematical conversion.
As the other poster said
If you'd gotten off your dead butt and gone to a Fest you wouldn't be so anonymous with your credits.
Just sayin.
Whaaa?? Have no idea what you are referring to ...
... just sayin'
My 44 YO son just finished a similar size basement bath (about 3/4 of your size, but with 1 ft sq tiles)
Took my 10" diamond wet saw over for him, he finished laying in less than one day and grouted the next weekend and cleaned up with 15% HCl.
I mentioned the age as it would probably take me 3 days now, but could have done it all in a day 30 years ago. Last time I mixed and poured 14 yards of concrete driveway alone in one day was 20 years ago, and that about did me in then.
BTW, if I had to do a floor like that now, I'd hire one of the grandkids as a helper, that way would be able to teach them at the same time.
possible but..
It's possible to do in a day with quick set but I don't think anyone would ever recommend that.
Sidebar!
How did you mix and pour 14 yards of concrete? MIXED? In what?
How did you mix and pour 14 yards of concrete? MIXED? In what?
Since you ask
- in a relatively small 4 cu ft electric mixer. Have to admit, was quite an energetic worker and glutton for punishment when younger! However, the gravel pit was only 2 miles from the house then (is now a 15 YO housing development), went with my 1-1/T dump truck and got premixed sand/gravel. Layed out the bags of cement the day before near where it would be mixed, with one gravel mix load in place. The 15 min or so RT truck trips were the "rest periods." Yard opened at 6:30 AM IIRC, it was light out till near 10 PM (46.5 deg North).
Back the truck up right up to the mixer, tilt the bed for best shovel angle, 6 shovels of mix, then 2 measured shovelfulls of cement, then 5-6 more mix depending on how much I judged I'd missed getting into the mixer. Having the sand/gravel at just the mixer throat level is a big help, plus hose to fill and simply judge water by slump of concrete in the mixer.
Let mix while spreading the previous batch. Mixer on wheels, move the mixer and truck as needed so as to not need to wheelbarrow any concrete. When previous load spread, dump the mixer right onto the ground into the 2x4 forms, and immediately refill and set to mix, while spreading the previous load. About 2-3 yards per truckload of sand/gravel mix (yeah, maybe overloaded the truck a few times<G>)
Had set the forms for about 50 sq feet areas, when one was filled, screed and finish that section (brush finish, not smooth troweled).
Gotta tell you, if you ever do that much in a day, do it when you are under 40 YO, as being over 40 at the time was hell for the next few days with aches and pains >:(. I can still tell the last 50 sq ft section I finished 'somehow' did not have as good a finish as the ones a few hours earlier. BTW, the next week I limited it to just 6-7 yards a day finishing off about 2500 sq ft of drive!!!
Les's see, 8 years ago (57 or so then) did a garage floor of only 4 yards using the same method, that took all day also but was a trowled finish ......last year did just a 2 yard set of stairs with minimal finishing required and it took all morning and part of the afternoon with the truck and cement already sitting there from the day before (had the 5, 7 and 10 YO grandsons to help, not sure if that helped any though in the timing<G>.
One other age observation about mixing concrete: When in 30's could easily carry 3ea 94# bags at once. Nowadays can just about roll them off the truck and need to grunt and strain to carry just one a few feet .....
wanna talk about how many sheets of 4x8 wallboard ya can carry up a flight of stairs at one time and how many ya can do in an hour????
Impressive
Three 94# bags at once? You're a beast.. I sometimes do 2 80's and I don't think I could do much more. Last summer I did 56 sheets of wallboard 2 at a time up 5 flights in about an hour and a half with one of my guys.
I vote to change your Log-On to Paul Bunyan!
Here comes the grump ... :D
There's a reason tilesetting is called a SKILLED trade. Believe me, you can tell the difference - even on a 'simple' job. The real differences you'll never know about, as the pro deals with the little glitches that come up on every job.
Focusing on price leads you into temptation .... before you know it, you're trolling the day-labor line, looking for some poor soul you can hire at $10/hr. No license, no tools, no skills.
Saving money? Fact is, you screwed yourself the moment you bought the materials. If you think the box stores are cheap, think again. The DIY market gets to pay premium rates- and often for second-rate stuff.
"and often for second-rate
"and often for second-rate stuff."
!!!!
????
What? Y'mean it will scratch by looking at it and break every time I fall down?
"and often for second-rate
"and often for second-rate stuff."
!!!!
????
What? Y'mean it will scratch by looking at it and break every time I fall down?
Oh here we go again
Skilled trade? No one can do anything. Everyone lays there first floor or no one becomes "skilled". So very very tiresome.
The substitute for "skilled" is knowledge, will, attention to detail and patience. IF YOU HAVE ALL THREE you can compete with the "skilled" tradesman. This is not to say that some trades require alot more knowledge than others, but you can get it. ANd this is not to say that every DIYer is willing to get the knowledge, or has the attention to detail, or the patience, or the skill to ask the right questions.
I tiled my first bathroom, floor, shower, and tub surround (included removing vinyl, rotten subfloor and a hugh crown in the floor). I can not tell you how many people asked me who my tile setter was so they could have their bathroom done. So "you can tell a professional job from ... what"?
I don't disagree that there may be differences in quality of workmanship between the guy you hire ofr $10 and the guy you hire for $20. But some times the guy who charges $20 just thinks he is worth $20.
Like one guy here said he hired a guy for $1700 (I think that was the figure) for a one and a half day job. THAT GUY MUST HAVE BEEN WEARING A MASK AND A GUN! And they you wonder why I build my own cabinets, roof my own houses, set my own tile, build my own decks, and anything else that need to be done.
you wonder why I build my own cabinets, roof my own houses, set my own tile, build my own decks, and anything else that need to be done.
Hey, that's MY line
A few years ago I posted that homebleepo had shorted me 2" on a few thousand $$ sheet flooring order.
I had measured exactly for pattern overlap, etc. The missing 2" had me tacking on 2" from other trim areas onto the most un-noticeable 4" wide kickspace under a cabinet*.
Had some 'pro' on that thread tell me I should have hired a pro like him as he always orders an extra 18 inches!! Hmm, an extra 18 sq feet at $5 sq ft, wonder who eats that cost and how come the 'pro' never learned to measure a room competently?
Think I responded to that guy in a similar vein as your post and recall Paul putting up a post to the 'pro' something like 'you tried to pick on the wrong DIY"
*took it back to HD, took their offer of $200 in cash rebate, so could live with the 'patch' in the kickspace for $200, nobody but me has ever noticed it.
The correct answer ius that the contractors tell you what they charge, and you decide if you can aford it.
tile install cost
I would charge at least $10 a sq foot or figuring your room to be 18 X 14 it would be around $2400 . That includes all setting materials and grout. Sealer is extra as is a crack proof membrane. There are other variables which include accessibility and waste disposal, but you should pay under $3000. Tile installation is just work, not science.
good luck
john
"you should pay under
"you should pay under $3000."
Mybe, maybe not.
Did you notice he has really big tiles? and a wavy floor that needs leveling, and cracks that need isolation? and a drain that inpolies the surface should slope to drain.....
Lot of prep work in this one to get it right I might be looking at 3500 - but I can't see all the details from here
too vague...
too vague in your description, but in general, you'll be charged more for setting stone versus tile, and you'll be charged more for setting large format 18's versus snaller 12's.
Regional differences are huge and I don't know where you live, but bottom end I'd say $7 a foot, typical would be $10-$12, could be $15 or higher if you lived in my neck o the woods. That price includes thinset and grout. Larger tiles mean more thinset and usually a 1/2" notch trowel. If the slab is wacky it will add $$ to the job.
I highly recommend gridding the floor, you'll work faster, be more accurate, and have an overall better looking job. Tile spacers on a floor are not the smart option, especially with non-rectified tile.
non-rectified tile.
Is that tile speak for tile that isn't square?
sort of...
In general:
Non-rectified tiles are stamped out of a large sheet then glazed and fired as individual tiles, during the drying and firing process they can get a little out of square, bow, pillow, or warp. You'll usually need a larger grout joint to accomodate for variations in the tile's dimensions, and to minimize the effect of lippage from the edge of one tile to its neighbor.
Rectified tile is fired in large sheets then cut to size after the sheet has been fired, so in general the tiles are perfectly square and uniform in size. They can more easily be set with smaller grout lines without worry over decreasing or increasing grout lines, or lippage due to warping, bowing, or pillowing.
Gridding versus spacers: WIth the slight variations in the dimensions of non-rectified tiles, spacers can kick the floor out of alignment and skew grout lines as the tiles are set across the floor. Sure a competent and conscientious installer can take care of it and make adjustments as the work progresses, however, with gridding it's not a factor, as variations in size are taken care of within each grid.
All that said, not all non-rectified are significantly out of whack. Some are dimensionally consistent. I'll take a stack of tiles, set them on edge and see how even the edges are to one another. Flip the stack 90-degrees to the next edge and take another look.
Most natural stone is cut, so it should be consistent in size, but low-end stuff can be out of whack, especially the lousy slate that is being sold in the box stores.
Easy way to tell rectified ceramics versus non is that if you're handed a stack of tiles is that rectified have a sharp 90-degree sawn edge (with a very very tiny chamfer on the top edge) with no glazing on the cut edge. With stamped tiles, the top of the edge is usually eased instead of being an almost sharp 90, or the edge on a non-rectified is a little waffly instead of perfectly straight, or the edge has a bit or glaze on it.
Rectified can be easily set with a 1/16th inch grout line. Non-rectified, usually 3/16ths to 1/4" depending on how dimensionally consistent (or non-consistent) the tiles are.
Not strict rules to follow, but just guidelines.
If you have a drain, the floor should slope to it- lots of fun with big tiles.
$0.02