Awhile back I took on this huge DIY project and finished out the basement. Working with no prior experiance, what I got out of it was the greatest reward that one can get. The easisest part was working with the epoxy grout in the bathroom <g>. . There were alot of mistakes along the way that looking back I realize, like too wide of a grout joint for the marble floor or that hardwood plywood doorjambs is not the best to hang a door.
If I had to do it all over again would I hire it out…..that’s a tough call. It’s more rewarding at the end of the day seeing what you can do with your own hands but I’m sure someone who does this for a living would have had more tricks up their sleeves. Down the road for the “next house” I’m contemplating to go gung-ho and do it myself and hire out the stuff I just don’t have the slightest clue or the second option is just get hired help and move into a “finished” house. Here’s a perfect example. When I installed the flooring I thought it was the coolest thing. Wide plank, 3/4 3 ply and the top of the surface has this combed mill finish. The “patina” that it has developed with the minor dents and dings, is a result of hindsight vs. forsight. It turns out the wood I chose is softwood and all those knots in the floor were actually man made….they were drilled out in the surface of the flooring and set in place with carpenters glue.
For all you DIY that have been in the same boat, or the latter, all you contractors that have seen homeowners attempting to take it on themselves, any feedback or sound advice you can offer.
Edited 8/2/2002 2:17:56 PM ET by jsoto
Replies
jsoto, This is one way to get to know it (some of it, not anywhere close to all of it). Take all the shop classes you can in school (6 wks metal, 6 weeks wood). For 30 years read everything you can on the subject. All the books, trade magazines, info sheets, and (now) every forum dedicated to the trade (all trades so you know the subcontracted stuff too). While you're at it for those years, dive right in and do it. Learn from what you take apart (if it was the same in a cpl different towns it probably might be the proper way to assemble it). Learn from everyone you work with/for as if they were a teacher. Perhaps join an apprenticeship program. You might try to make a living at it as this keeps you striving for more knowledge. Maybe learn a little business or at least know where your money is going and it's a good idea to also know where it's coming from. While you're on vacation or out on a date, look around you. Pull some more ideas, ways of doing things, accepted standards in from your surroundings.
I must be forgetting something I'm sure, but you get the idea. This way will work but it sure is a hard row to hoe. Best of luck.
__________________________________________
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
"The mistakes you've made so we don't"
You need to be much much more specific. If I could remember and write down ALL the things I've learned from hard earned mistakes it would fill a large book. I learn something almost everyday if you know what I mean.
The advise I offer to a homeowner is:
- Projects on television are far more difficult and time consuming than they appear!
- And a quote by Walt Stoeppelwerth.
"If a homeowner undertakes a handyman project and does it badly, there is a negative effect on the equity in the house; not only is there no savings on the project, there might be a disaster."
Scott R.
Edited 8/2/2002 8:06:31 PM ET by Scott R.
Edited 8/3/2002 8:47:08 AM ET by Scott R.
Glad to have you sharing with us. Hope you have tough skin. You might need it around here but it's worth it! This fraternity isn't for wimps.
One of my regular mistakes that I repeat every other month is to cut it an inch too short. But I balance it out on alternate months by cutting it an inch too long.
To avoid that mistake, always measure twice and cut once.
Piffin...Where the HELL does that inch go between the taking of the measurement and marking the peice to be cut???? I sware it happens to me far too often, and its always EXACTLY one inch. You`d get a kick outta the words that spew from my mouth on the way back to the bench to recut! I think I make half of them up!J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
It's not just "Where does that inch go?" -- why is there always less money in my checking account than I think there is? Why isn't there more than I think there is even once in awhile?
How come when something is too long, I can trim it off a hair at a time and then suddenly it's way too short?
Joe H
I know EXACTLY where that inch goes.
The tape reels it in and stores it for later, like when you have a fish to measure. That way, an eighteen inch fish can easily tape out at two feet.
Actually, for me, it has to do with reading it upside down. 87-7/8" is close to the 88" mark so when I'm reading upside down or somebody is distracting me, it's easy for my eye to wander and read it as 88-7/8"
Along these same lines, I was laying out and cutting stair stringers once in an area where there was lots of traffic and distractions. So I kept reminding myself to remove the extra inch (using 1" stair treads) from the botom. Then came a phone call, followed by one interruption after another ( I was supervising the job too) and itr was a couple hours later when I got back to it. The next morning, I discoverd the whole stair seet was installed an inch low. After checking all my marks, I figured out that I had cut that inch off twice and didn't remember.
mistakes????? That's how we learn.
Excellence is its own reward!
Piffster
You in the habit of "burnin 1" (not the kind panama red does, altough that would explain a lot)
I burn 10 inches. That way the board is obviously to long or to short
just a habit
TDo not try this at home!
I am a trained professional!
I am a DYI type but in the end its always right. Flip side of the coin is that it takes me week instead of a day to do the same thing. If your going to do it yourself be prepared to make lots of mistakes and learn as you go. Find a mentor: A father, Grandfather, friend or professional and ask as many questions as you can.
Unfortunately for me. My father is about as uncoordinated as they come so thats no help. I learned a great deal from my Mother and her father of all people!
You get the same thing in technology subjects as well. Mainly in computer repair. Questions like: "How you do that so fast?" How did you know to do..." Same difference. Its all about the time invested into learning the trade and knowing what to look for first. Just saying that so the real professionals know they really aren't alone in that boat. It really happens everywhere. (*smiles*)
Oh! And I get just as many laughs from DYI computer people too!
- Brent
You hit it right on. Take your time and tear it out if its not right instead of trying to fix it with caulk or putty. Right now I'm hanging doors in my house (made the doors and jambs) and it is taking forever. I hang doors once every 5 years it seems and I forget stuff like I should have mortised all of the jambs and doors before I installed the jambs. Now I'm using a chisel to to cut all of the mortises. It works, it looks good but it takes forever. I also believe in measuring twice, cutting 5 times and then buying a new piece of wood.
" 87-7/8" is close to the 88" mark so when I'm reading upside down or somebody is distracting me, it's easy for my eye to wander and read it as 88-7/8"
Glad to hear that I'm not the only one who's done that.
I once measured for roof trusses on a big, ugly house. Dual pitch hips that planed from one floor up over another, brick cantilevers, etc.
When I measured one spot in particular on the house, I noted it was just 1/4" shy of 8'. So I wrote down 8' 11 3/4". Then I got to stand there a couple of weeks later while a $90 an hour crane and 6 carpenters were there on the jobsite, and try to explain to the owner why a bunch of his expensive trusses didn't fit.
No wonder my blood pressure is high.........
"If you think talk is cheap, try hiring a lawyer."
I amaze myself frequently when I'm cutting mitered trim...I'll measure the required inside dimension, then use that number to cut the outside length of the material. And it's usually the last piece available, so there's another trip to the store.
Back to the original message...explain those man-made knots again...
When the electricians came to put in the new panel, I was shocked at how much wire they wasted. One and two foot pieces of romex everywhere. But then I compared the cost of all that wire, maybe 3 bucks, vs them having to pull anything again, and it suddenly made sense. Of all the things I learned while watching them, I think being wasteful was the most valuable. They also left me with a 6 foot piece of 4/0 which I'm thinking of making into a joke extension cord for someones housewarming.
I'm thinking about writing an article on a new rare medical disorder I've discovered, which I call EPT. That isn't an acronym, it just means I'm ept, which is the opposite of inept. Unfortunately, people know this (especially my wife), and I find myself doing projects that other sna e people would hire out without blinking. But because I suffer from ept, i find myself doing it. People at work are amazed i have both a mill and a metal lathe in my garage. I'm equally surprised they can live without them. Just thin of all the time they waste driving to HD for a bolt when I can simple walk out to the garage and turn one from hex stock. ;-) I've decided to teach my son how to be inept, and thus save him from the responsibility of actually being able to do things. Now its back to pulling cat5 for the new computer I'm putting together.
BTW, if anyone saw the beginning of Malcom in the Middle last week, where Hal had to replace a lightbulb, they'll know what I mean.
""People at work are amazed i have both a mill and a metal lathe in my garage. I'm equally surprised they can live without them""
Good comment - I think I was almost in high school before I realized people actually hired others to do maintenance for them - didn't everybody have a forge, woodshop, and machine shop at home?? Replaced the head gasket on DILs van the other week - was later discussing money with grand-daughter (7) and she blurts out - "Mom says the best way to save money is for Grandpa to fix the van"
To avoid that mistake, we call out measurements to one another as "_______, Long to short" or "_______-short to shortpoint"
Even working alone, it helps to call it out verbally, like as though the echo is still bouncing around (at least in my head) to hear when you get to the cutting station.Excellence is its own reward!
thanks all so far for the feedback. Drilling out the holes for those SOSS hinges when I was hanging 30 inch solid doors was not fun either.
Here's the story on those "knots". One day my wife was vacuming the floor and the damm nozzle sucked one of those knots right off. I always thought is unusual that the floor had so many beautiful knots in one board. I thought it added character to the floor. It appears they used a machine to drill holes for those knots, added in the knots with some wood glue on the bottom and filled in whatever small gaps with colored wood filler.
Next time, I know better and will go with solid plank wood. The reason why I went with the engineered wood was being that the wood was going in the basement, I figuered it would be more stable with 3 layers. Not that we're on this topic...are wood floors generally installed before of after the doorjamb was installed. It took me forever just to make nice tight clean cuts where the flooring met the closets.
Edited 8/3/2002 4:52:05 PM ET by jsoto
Either one on the jamb install. Before, undercut the jamb to accept the flooring or after the floor's down and measure carefully from a level line so both legs of the jamb sit on the floor. Great debate on which is better, easier and quicker.__________________________________________
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
This won't work in all situations, but where it will it really helps: To avoid getting the numbers wrong in measuring and cutting, do it without using numbers if you can. Just hold the piece to be cut with one end in place, and mark directly on it with a pencil where the other end should be cut. No numbers, therefore no numerical mistakes.
-- J.S.
Yeah, cut it three times........... You don't admit to making mistakes do you? :)
Brudoggie
I think he should be a blacksmith, you can always make the iron piece longer.:)
Tom
Stud layout
(Hook and pull layout 16"-24") If you hook and pull say 16" , drive a nail 3/4" back and then hook the nail and pull the rest of the layout at 16"line/X.This way your 8' deckboard,plywood,or sheetrock will fall on the center of the stud.
If you just hook and pull -mark line/x you will have a ton of waste.
Another method is to hook and pull but mark 3/4" back on each stud layout 15 1/4"-31 1/4"- 47 1/4" and so on. Bob
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
It's actually 3 inches.
If the tape is one way it's a 6, if it is the other, it's a 9.
Say it with me:
E X P E R I E N C E
Congratulations, your getting it!
I am turning the tables on you jsota, never tiled before and should be setting the cultured marble shower base soon and will tile there up using epoxy grout, I think anyway. Any suggestions, thanks Roger
I used Laticrete Epoxy grout. The set time with the Epoxy was incredibly fast and this stuff was not cheap....
From the time the grout was mixed, applying the grout to the tile, running the float across the tile to pack the grout in, cleaning the super thick / sticky grout off the tiles, continually washing the floor down (I ended using up lotsa water as I scrubbed the grout off the tiles and the floor got real messy).........I hope you get the picture.
I've worked with sanded/unsanded grout before so this was the first with Epoxy. I'm not sure if it was just this brand that was the issue but I will probably go with a Latex Additive Grout in the future and just use Grout Sealer every once in a blue moon.