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My client has a 12" x 12" beam that she'd like to move over about 5 feet to improve the living room space (right now the beam is sort of in the way when you walk into the space).
Is this something an engineer need to verify before anything gets done and are there any other solutions such as adding metal supports and completely removing the beam?
See attached photo and the beam is the second one from the door.
-bb
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Looks like you are talking (post #205597, reply #1 of 3)
Looks like you are talking about a post that appears to be supporting a beam. It's not possible to tell what the beam is carrying from a picture. You can't just remove the post or move it without knowing what weight and structure the beam is supporting. If the post and beam are merely decorative, moving the post may be OK but totally removing it could be a different story. If they are structural, the spacing of the posts is critical to proper support of the beam. If the beam is structural, it can be beefed up so the post can be moved or it can be replaced with a larger beam. Either would be an involved job.
Folks always talk about consulting an engineer but structural engineers that actually work in the residential field and would have experience in situations like yours are rare as hen's teeth. That doesn't mean that some engineers don't think they can figure anything out but those are the type you want to watch out for. You should consult with a timberframe contractor. Looking at the exposed portions of the joists showing in the ceiling and the stair opening that the beam runs along, I would guess the posts and beam are structural.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
I R an enjinear If (post #205597, reply #2 of 3)
I R an enjinear <G>
If that were my house and I wanted the post gone:
a. forget try to to 'simply' move the beam - to me it appears it would be WAY too much work to move the beam, the joists above would need a lot of work or replaced.
b. I'd need to see the end supports, but assuming good end structures, I'd sister a steel channel to each side of 237the beam as shown in the picture and box it in with wood to match.
to figure this out yourself, you at least need to know the basic moment equations, I'll guess at dimensions from the 12x12 description for the below -- THIS IS VERY SIMPLISTIC, but will give you some idea of possibilities and what is involved.
1. existing wood beam appear to span 8 feet between the post and the end supports, and has not center break (e.g. the 12x12 beam itself is 16 ft long.
2. roughly, by removing the post, the moment on the beam will go up by 2 squared or 4 times, so the section modulus of a wood beam would need to quadruple - e.g. sister 3 more 12x12 wood beams against the existing beam
3. the section modulus of a 11.25x11.25 " beam is 11.25^3/6 =237,
4. I'll assume a good clear SYP or DF beam, with a tensile fiber strength of 1500 psi, hence the beam can carry a moment of 356kips. (356,000 in-pound moment)
5. you need something that will be equivalent to 3 of those, if you remove the post. A common stress alowable for steel is 20,000 psi. 3*356/2 = 267, so each channel would need to resist a moment of 267,000 in-#
6. Thus, the section modulus of the 16 ft steel channel = 178/20 = 13.4 incubed
7 going to a steel section table, a 10U15.3 channel would work, 1 bolted to each side of the existing beam.PS edit - the steel would be against the joists above, if not, you would need more bolts along the length
8. Now is a trickier part - the end supports, and cannot tell anything from the pix.
9 I'll assume the ends are supported sufficiently (BIG ASSUMPTION), so that you can simply bolt the channels to the side of the existing 12x12 beam. This is more complicated, as you need to figure moment along the wood beam, bolt shear, etc. etc. Just to scope the number of bolts (on centerline),
10. Back figuring for the load, I'm guessing about 18# inch loading from the floor, etc. above. 0.5*18*12"*16ft = 1800 pounds or so load at each end of the beam for the full 16 ft span. The existing end supports should be able to handle this, and a very off the top of the head bolt selection would be 6 each 1/2" dia thru bolts close to each end spaced about 8" apart, but NOT on the same grain line, but all thru the upper 1/2 of the wood beam.
c. Actually what I'd do myslef is to bolt a high strength 3/8" steel plate with 1/2" dia lag bolts to the bottom of the wood beam, but then you would see ththe steel - also the lateral shear calculations are more complex than the above, LOTs of lag bolts, spaced closelyat the ends but not too many in the center span. I reinforced a 16 foot 6x12 DF beam over a garage like this with a 3/16" steel plate and need about 60 3/8" lag bolts!
CAVEAT: if you need to get a permit for the work, pretty sure the BI will insist on having an archy or enegineer stamp the drawings.
Have fun. PS: retired in Dec, so spent 10 minutes doing these calcs and writting hte epistle just to 'keep my hand in' so to speak<G>
I assume you're talking about (post #205597, reply #3 of 3)
I assume you're talking about the vertical post, not the horizontal beam overhead.
Ignoring for a moment the issue of where joints might be in the beam, and what point loads may be overhead, the post can probably be moved maybe 4 feet to the left without totally upsetting the applecart. But if there's a joint in the beam above the post (very likely) or a point load above (hard to guess) then this can't (easily) be done. However, with some filch plates or such (kinda ugly, but could be covered with wood) you could maybe move the post a foot or two left.
Beyond that, likely the best approach would be to remove the overhead beam and replace with steel, or run a steel beam alongside the wood one, allowing the post to be completely removed. This would pretty much require an engineer (or, more properly "injunear" -- JunkHound doesn't know how to spell it).
We are like tenant farmers chopping down the fence around our house for fuel when we should be using Nature's inexhaustible sources of energy -- sun, wind and tide. ... I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that. --Thomas Edison