New Guy with an Architect/Structural Engineer Contract Question
Hey FHB,
I’m embarking on a new home build project in San Francisco and am about to sign a contract with my Structural Engineer/Architect team. The person I am signing with is technically a Structural Engineer, but he has a few architects that work on his projects with him.
I have never built a new home before, so I am curious if some of the excluded services he specifies are normally provided when hiring a structural engineer/architect. I do realize everything is negotiable, which is why I want to make sure to modify the contract agreement before signing it. I really do appreciate the help as I don’t want to sign something that is not in my favor and will ultimately cost me down the road in “extra” fees etc.
_________________
Re: Agreement for Design Service: New 3-story single family House at ___________
block _______ lot ______, San Francisco CA
Scope of Work:
The service will include the following:
1. Feasibility study and research all Code requirements for permit approval.
2. Architectural design per client requirements.
3. Structural design (including all structural engineering calculations)
4. Title 24 requirement.
5. Green building requirement. (fees charged by Licensed Rater paid by client)
6. All permit fee or tax charged by government to be paid by client.
Scopes excluded:
Environmental evaluation, storm water management, Ordinance 281-08 Health Code, Urban Bird Refuge. Prop M finding.
Street tree application by client.
Client provide site survey (topo map) and soil report.
Client provide 311 notification, pre-application meeting.
Design team will assist client for the above excluded scopes and hire consultants as
required.
Contract Price: $30,000.00 (Thirty Thousand Dollars)
Payment schedule:
$1,000 signing agreement
$2,000 upon finished code study and envelope scheme (number of story,
$3,000 upon complete schematic layout.
$3,000 upon client of approval of final scheme.
$5,000 upon completion of drawing for neighbor notification (site plan, floor
$4,000 upon site permit submittal
$3,500 upon Planning approval
$4,000 upon submittal of construction set (structural/Arch/Title 24)
$2,000 upon approval of building dept. plan check (arch /struct)
$2,500 upon permit approval
Additional Terms:
Any extra work of design changes due to client’s instruction after completion of work,
neighbor dispute, hearing, or permit appeal would be considered as additional service.
Additional service also includes additional design work due to unforeseen existing or
field conditions. These additional services will be put in writing and performed for an
additional fee. Such fee will be negotiated and documented at the time the additional
services are put in writing. Printing and postage expenses should be paid by client.
Public Hearing should be considered additional service.
Termination of agreement:
This Agreement is effective within 12 months from the date of signing agreement. This
Agreement may be terminated for cause or non-performance of contract by either party
by written notice to the other party. In the event this agreement is terminated, the Client
shall reimburse the Engineer an amount equal to the percentage of the work completed
in accordance with the fee schedule stated above.
Liabilities: The Engineer will not be responsible for any existing unforeseen conditions
on the site. The plans will reflect all local and other governing codes at the time of the
Project.
Replies
Some input...hope it helps
Seems like a lot to me, but you are in my former home state of CA.
Here's how I look at it. Anyone (homeowner) is going to be part of the building process and notice stuff along the way. So, what I have recommended is that you have a drafter/architect create some plans....go over it.....go over it....go over it.....and you will never have it perfect since when you move in you will notice stuff then too like outlets on the eaves for christmas lights, 220v in the garage, a small area for a water softener, a hose bib on the other side of the house where you need it, a gas line for the bbq, no window where you actually want one, etc...
You want to do the best you can on the plans since the framer/plumber/electrician will have good/complete plans to bid off of. You dont, usually, want to have 100 change orders because this drives the price up for everyone (read:you) envolved.
One the drafter is finished, and you are too, to the best of your ability, then the engineer comes in. I didn't really get how he "is not liable" for any unforseen issues. I mean, its a new build and he has to go over the plans and all of that.
Sorry for not being too hip on the CA costs for plans, zoning, etc. Is there anyone around from work, church, etc that has done what you want to do? Maybe the Forum will help since i am just responding.
I hope this helped, and in the long run, you will have something that you did that fits you and that's the fun part. Best of luck.
Thanks for the response! I appreciate it truly.
I know 30k seems like a lot of money, but to be honest he is the second cheapest out of five I contacted. Apparently, standard fee in this area is 15% of project budget. If my project budget is 600K, that makes the fee 90K. I am alright with his price as long as the quality of work is good.
My main worry is that his fee will really end up being much higher than 30K with the extra fees and services.
I think his comment about unforseen issues needs clarification on his part. I assumed he meant unforseen issues with the lot itself since it is a brand new build on an empty lot. If something was buried in the ground that he would have had no way of knowing etc. But you definitely bring up a good point and I should get that language clarified.
I am thinking of ways I can attempt to limit my financial exposure, like building in an allowance of X numbers of hours for city planning hearings. Rather than him saying all hearings are extra, maybe I can ask for the first 20 hours of hearings built into the 30k price for example.
Unfortunately, I do not know many people that have built homes within San Francisco. It is pretty rare to find open lots of land here, so most people I know at most have done remodels/guts of existing structures. I'd rather be overly cautious at this step to avoid some real headaches down the road.
And one more thing....
No reason to not do the time-tried method of talking to his last 1 or 2 customers and see how they liked him, and how the process went along.
Also, maybe you wont get one of those "corporate types" but visit your local city office and see if building department person can give you a name of and engineer/architect that has come in to drop off plans and left a good impression. This is a long shot, but worth a try I suppose.
In addition, they will be able to shed some light on all those fees you listed and when they come into play. It wont be clear cause you dont have any plans, but its a start.
The last message was good too. You will need to clarify what you are getting. Then have it in writing on if they are going to give you one/two plan redos after you finialize what you want. No reason to not clarify that up front.
How fast can you run?
This contract seems to me to be written by a firm that's not prepared to give you full architectural service. There's a reason that others charge a percentage of the contract amount. Look at #2. How can the architect know what to charge for the design before doing it. He doesn't know your "requirements." Under the terms stated he could draw you an 800 sq. ft. house with simple bath, kitchen, and bedroom.... bare, basic, simple construction. And you'd be powerless to say otherwise because you've probably only told him, so far before signing the contract, that you want a house. After you sign, any further embellishments you desire in your home, will be an add-on.
Run away from this deal. If you don't, then at least pay an attorney for some advice.
What the heck kind of name is "BoostHog" ???
See already you have a very good contract. But there are always chances of getting some discounts or extra services. You cannot do anything with approval charges and certification charges, they are moreover the same and constant. The place where you can ask the firm to reduce the cost are the areas like cost estimations, building inspections and inspection report if generated by their inspection team. If you have not signed the contract yet, you can ask them to negotiate. In this whole work package of your's they will surely look forward to negotiate. If not stil the contract is fine.
blah blah blah.......the above, worthless attempt at spamming your site.
Thanks for the help everyone. Regarding the name, I drive a turbo car so BoostHog was kind of a name I came up with.
The contract was received after two initial meetings. We discussed that on this particular lot, it would likely be three stories. Ground floor would be a garage floor, since this is an upward sloping lot. Living/Family/Kitchen would all be on the 2nd floor. Bedrooms and Master suite on the top floor.
So yes we did discuss square footage 3000-3500 sq ft and also my ideal price per sq ft for the build quality which is around 200 per sq ft. which is on the lower end for this area. I figure the appliances and finishings don't need to be super nice at this point because I'd rather spend the money on things that are hard to change down the road.
I am intending to build a modern styled house, lots of open space and indoor/outdoor transitional modular spaces. The budget is definitely the limiting factor as well as the sloped lot.