I’m building my own house just outside of Charleston, SC. And I’ve just finished the drywall stage. I’m hoping one of you can point me in the right direction regarding the order of the remaining work.
My initial plan was to
1. install the interior doors,
2. install the trim,
3. spray it all with primer (trim, new drywall.. everything)
4. Paint,
5. install and finish the hardwood floors.
Is there a right or wrong sequence? Can I still install doors and trim without hardwood floors installed or is it more difficult?
Replies
Keep in mind that I don't do this for a living, but I have done my share of this.
Drywall primer and barewood primer is not the same, drywall primer has a lot of water content and will raise the grain on bare wood. So........
I always carpet, I forgot the hardwood floor.
Of course that is if all is paint grade trim
Edited 4/2/2008 2:31 pm ET by cameraman
You left out bashing holes in the drywall, trying to find the missing electrical outlets.
I would make a couple changes:
1. install hardwood floors
2. install the interior doors,
3. install the trim,
4. prime walls w/ DW primer
5. prime trim w/ quality wood primer
6. finish hardwood floors
7. final coats wall/trim paint
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Pp, Qq
I will paste a schedule from one of my last jobs below:
Drywall
Hang
"Mud, Tape & Sand"
Prime / Fog
Flooring
WOOD
Cabinetry
Countertop Measure
Countertops
Tile
Bath
Glass block
Install Fireplaces
Install brick Veneer
START OF TRIM PAYMENT
Millwork
DOORS -INTERIOR
Paint & Finishes
Accessories and Hardware
Mirrors and Shower Glass
Appliances
Mechanical Finishes
PLM Fixtures
HVAC Fixtures
ELE Fixtures
Fireplace Start Up
Mech Inspection
Install Carpet
Paint & Finishes Touch-Ups
Floor FINAL COAT
Professional Cleaning
Substantial Completetion
FINAL PAYMENT
Job Complete
the OP needs to tell us if these are pre-finished floors or site finished..
Either way they need to go in before millwork.
Either way they need to go in before millwork.
Not necessarily. Where I'm at, hardwood floors are usually one of, if not THE last thing to be installed. Usually the only thing left to do after hardwood floors are finished is run the shoe.View Image
thanks. for a while there i thought i was the only one paranoid about new hdwood flooring :)
They're going to be site finished floors.
So everyone is pretty much in aggreement that floors need to go in before any trim work?
just tape all the elecrical and then paint, primee and finish coat. then floor trim doors, cabinrt, counters
So everyone is pretty much in aggreement that floors need to go in before any trim work?
Yes.
our hardwood floor guys get downright nasty if you put the base and casing on before the flooring install.
carpenter in transition
Kick your flooring installers. Doors are hung and cased before floors and any good floor installer owns a undercut saw be it a hand saw or power undercut saw. Also most tile installers also own these tools so installing tile floors can also be done after doors and casing.Hanging a pre-hung door. Before floorStep 1 cut jamb for gap under door based on thickness of finished flooring.
Step 2 cut casing legs fit (all door casings cut to door sizes and are assembled at once)
Step 3 attach casing to one side of jamb with door still on floor (or up on saw horses)
Step 4 set door in opening put center put level on head let high side rest on floor shoot one nail in the top corner of head casing on high side shim up low side until head is level shoot a nail to hold the head level.
Step 5 plumb hinge side of jamb shoot nails though casing to hold plumb.
Step 6 gap latch side of jamb shoot nails though casing to hold.
Step 7 install shims between jamb and framing from the side without the casing installed shoot nails though jamb.
Step 8 hang casing on that side.
Done.Now when jamb is under cut to install flooring the saw follows any out of level conditions in the sub floor leaving a tight 3/4 gap (or what ever the floor thickness)
to slide the floor under (tight fit) even if floor is out of level the floor will follow the out of level subfloor and so did the under cut saw) but the cuts are done in about 3 min. no scribe needed but it is a scribe tight fit.Installing pre-hung door after floor
STEP 1 Check floor and door opening for level
Step 2 measure for jamb length to level head hight
Step 3 cut each leg to fit out of level floor so when set tight to floor head will be level.
Step 4 Set door in opening re-check for level make sure head jamb is level.
and check for gaps if no gaps and level proceed to step 8 if not and more more then likely it is not or there will be a gap some where so go to step 5
Step 5 Scribe jamb to out of level floor
Step 6 take door out recut jamb to scribed line.
Step 7 Repeat Step 4 If OK proceed to step 8 if not level or if there is still a gap under jamb (from front to back) Repeat Step 5. then repeat Step 4
Step 8 plumb hinge side. shim nail off.
Step 9 set gap on latch side shim nail.
Step 10 Measure each jamb leg since they are all different since jamb is scribed to fit out of level floor.
Step 11 Cut casing legs to length Each a different length. (all casing can still be assembled at once)
Step 12 hang casing both sides.
DoneWhich would you rather do?? Or better yet which would you rather pay for 3 Min each door jamb (if that good floor installers with a power undercut saw can do both jamb and casing sides in about 3 min.) or the time it takes to level measure,cut, re-check level. fit, scribe, cut, then measure for casing cut.
Much better to hang doors then undercut the casing and jamb.
You forgot something important in this scenario. 1, The extra work your flooring installer has to do to fit the wood floors under the jambs. ( remember he needs extra room to for tongue and groves.) 2, The fact that your trim crew Still has to come back set up and trim out the base molding. If i had to do both the trim and the wood floor the floor would be first (less work and more efficient over all. You assume that the floors are out of level but this is under the builders control. I own a tile company so I don't care when you trim but around here the wood floors go in before any trim.
Thanks Craig
Floors are always some what out of level even a if it is just 1/16" it still means you need to fit the door jam to the floor. All it takes is one floor joist with slightly more crown then the next and you get a little bit out of level no matter how exact the plates were leveled. I level ever plate with a laser and and check every wall for plumb and true up every wall for straightness and even check and fix any bowed studs before drywall and still get the occasional hump in a wall that shows up from a stud that bowed or twisted after the wall board went up (if it is bad we open up the wall and fix it) So sure making sure things are level and plumb is the builders responsibility but it is never ever perfect at least not to my level of tim tolerances.Also framing lumber is not exact from one piece to the next very close but not tight as trim tolerances. I just framed a addition last week and from one 2x10 to another I had as much a 1/4 inch difference in height. When you frame you make every effort to frame level and plumb but framing is framing if it was always perfect we would have no need for shims and the RO could be exactly the size of the Door/window units to be installed. But framing is not perfect it can have some bowing and can differ slightly in thickness. To expect all ROs to be perfectly plumb and level is unrealistic even in new construction never mind a remodel were a house could have hundreds of years of settling and be inches out of level.I understand how floor is installed and it is no big deal to fit the flooring under the jamb. I did not forget it. Like I said they make undercut saws for a reason what do you do when you install new flooring in a existing house? take out all the door jambs and re-trim all the jambs then re install them? No you undercut the door jamb.It is standard practice to undercut the jambs to fit the flooring And yes it is not always the case In remodels of course you may have existing hardwood that you must install a new door and trim so yes you can hang doors after the flooring it is just not the normal way of working at least around here (or on my jobs)Of course in the end it is the finished product that matters not how you got there so what ever works for you is fine.
No not before all trim work. I hang doors before hardwood (undercut the jams when installing floor) finished stairs are set before floors, Window trim can all be done before floors especially if they are pre-finished the less work done on the finished floor the better. Actually the only trim that has to wait for the floors is base and shoe mold.
And I would prime and paint all dry wall first coat before trim, then hang doors, trim windows. Prime all trim before it is installed, stain and varnish (poly) any stain grade trim before install. (fill nail holes in stain grade trim with color matched fillers)
Paint base board and shoe before install in all rooms that get carpet you can hang all base board up about 3/8 to 1/2 inch and it gets tucked in under it.Install hardwood floors and tile (tile first especially if the tile installer is going to be walking across the area to get hardwood) then install pre-finished base and shoe mold fill nail holes in base and shoe and do final touch-upsNow for cabinets there are two schools of thought one is floors run up to built-in cabinets the other is floors go first and cabinets are installed over them. Personally for me it depends on the job for the most part I install floors first if the cabinets are more furniture like (with legs and such) it is easier to install after the floor. But that has it's own problems as well if the floor is not level you need to have a way to level the cabinets and hide the shims. (toe kick and base mold that gets scribed to floor after the cabinets are leveled and legs cut to final length to fit.) If the cabinets are installed first you save on flooring and if you install up to the cabinets the floor's thickness covers any shim gaps. (unless the floor is really out of level)Also You can hang the cabinets 3/4 off the subfloor just put 3/4 plywood under the back of cabinets and the floor gets tucked in just a few inches under the front and sides of the cabinets. or you can do a combination of all these methods in other words some cabinets before the floors some during floor install some after. (like a island that is more like a table then a cabinet)And wall cabinets can be installed anytime after priming the walls unless there are tall pantry cabinets that need to be set before any wall cabinets (they set the hight of the wall cabinets if the tops are aligned but that to is a rule that is broke when wall cabinets are installed at varying hight.
Actually the only trim that has to wait for the floors is base and shoe mold.
What about door casings?
And why would you install trim in stages?
Get the floors installed, then hang and trim doors along with trmming the entire room all at once.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Pp, Qq
I always do the int doors 1st. Run my oak to the base, scribe. Undercut casing and jamb stops. When you do the doors 1st, what do you do with the jamb when it needs to be shimmed up? Fit each door, and cut the jamb on the high side?Not being critical here, just never could see how it could go as fast or look as clean doing doors 2nd.
Bing
I suppose the type of construction we do comes into play. I do a bunch of renovation work on older homes.... a few rooms at a time....not entire new homes in one shot.
Speed is not really an issue with me. If I had to get 50 doors hung on a job, I might look to another method.
I typically do not install prehung units. I build my own frames and hang my own doors. I let my jamb legs run long and cut them as necessary to accomodate the openings. I never shim a low side.....always cut to the high side. This also allows me to be sure I'm able to align the door(s) I'm installing with the homes existing doors. Not always possible to do without shimming with prehungs.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Pp, Qq
First I already explained why Doors first.
Also except rooms with hardwood (many times bedrooms get carpet) you can do all the trim in a room before the floor including the base boards
I have to ask why do it all after the floors??
Worker drops a hammer and makes a big ding in a floor? if it is the sub floor no big deal a cherry floor that dents easy big problem how about that staging to hang the crown in the great room rolling around you need to protect that floor. I have seen big gouges in the subfloor from pipe scaffolding dropped by the painters painting the crown in the great room If the floor was installed it would have been a gouged floor.Hold off on floors until the last day possible the less you or other subs walk and work on them the better. even with the best protection things can happen to damage them the longer they are there with workers in the house the bigger the chance they will get damaged. (how much time will you save fixing a damaged floor. Now on remodels with existing hardwood that must be protected you cover it and then put down hard board and tape all the seams to keep dirt from getting between. now why do that in a whole house that is new if you can simply install the floor after everyone is done and out of the house.It takes no time to install base after hardwood it can be done same day as the floor if the floor is pre-finished and I said Pre-finish the base and fill with nail holes with color matched fillers or just touchup. It takes no time at all there are always things that need to be done after flooring but I like to have as few subs in after floors as possible.
Floors before all trim leaves way to many workers walking on them for too long a time they will get damaged. Especially if the floors are pre-finished hard wood.If you are just re-modeling one room or installing hard wood in only one room OK you might be able to protect that floor until the rest it done. Trimming a complete house (especially the luxury homes I work in) takes much longer the a few days it takes to lay hardwood floors.
It could take 4 weeks to do all the trim in the home office so to come back one or two days to install base board after the floor is no big deal.Why trim in stages? Can you trim a 4000 sq. ft house with built-ins paneling and multi-part crown base and casing in one day? no so why do you have to do all trim before the floor good floor installers have big crews and are very fast. one guy goes around under cutting door jambs and casings while another guy checks the subfloor for any humps/nails etc. and the other guys layout rosin paper and layout flooring in no time they are nailing floor and before the installers get done laying out flooring the door jambs are all cut. I do not see the issue it is standard practice for years to undercut door jambs and casing. Why do you think they make undercut saws? If pre-finished flooring they are in and out even laying 3000+ sq. ft of floor in one day. If sanded and finished on site then they are done laying and sanding and first coat in one or two days. then the next day second coat. the third coat of finish waits until the end.Now since I have plenty of shop work to do on any interior I just work on built-ins in the shop for those few days then I come back and install the base and shoe. the final coat of floor finish is usually done one or two days before I get my final check.
just enough time for the cleaners to get in and out before final walk though.
Edited 4/3/2008 12:22 am ET by MFournier
I see how that would work for your operation.
I don't get the impression the OP has many custom cabs or built-ins to contend with and was hoping to complete the project in stages without jumping back and forth from one to the other.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Pp, Qq
I just did one: floors last; after trim and all paint. I don't even like the idea of the plumber going in to do his finish out and walking on the finished floors. When the dent happens....will they pay to fix it? Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Edited 4/3/2008 10:40 am by Jim_Allen
Agreed....but chances are great that walls and trim are gonna get bruised a bit by the floor installation, which is why I hold off on final painting until after floors have been sanded and sealed.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Pp, Qq
The hardwood guy didn't do much damage (I didn't see any but I'm waiting for Austin Energy to give us lights). Nowadays, the pieces of hardwood are so small, I hardly think the installer is going to beat too much of the paint jobs up. I'm more concerned about the carpet guys, but I'm also realistic and know that I'm going to spend a couple hours doing touchup. I'd much rather commit to two hours of touchup than the possibility of ripping 500 sf of flooring up to replace some that has been damaged. I also don't want to spend two hours laying hardboard as a protector.It sounds like we all have a Ford vs Chevy discussion going on. No one's wrong...no ones right...it's all about risk assessment and risk management. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Edited 4/3/2008 10:05 pm by Jim_Allen
Doors and window and door casing, then floors, then base and shoe.If you put in your flooring first and then your doors, if the opening at floor level is not level then you have to raise up one end of the door jamb and it will leave a gap. This is especially true in Charleston where everything is out of plumb, level, and square. The Multimaster does a great job at trimming door casing. Call me I'm over in Mt. P, I'll bring it over! :-)Constructing in metric...
every inch of the way.
Thanks Holy Hammer. I'm over in Mt Pleasant too. Building the house out near Darrell Creek. You name also reminds me that I designed a logo a while back for builder that they never liked . It's perfect for you...it's a holy hammer. You can make some hats or t-shirts.
So let me see, you are worried about a gap at the bottom of the jamb leg, what about the uneven reveal of the door to the floor. to do this properly you need to cut the jamb legs and the door bottom to be parallel to the flooring. there appears to be numerous ways of going about this but our company chooses flooring first, followed by rosin paper taped 2 inches from walls to allow the painter to do his taping and 3/16 masonite on top of the rosin paper for floor protection. If "said" plumber or whomever damges the floor, guess what, they are paying to fix the floor.
Sota, We shim the low side of the jamb which ends up getting cut out when the flooring goes in. It's a tad easier than cutting the jamb before it is installed. We also always install click and lock flooring first. Its a pain to work around door jambs. We rosin or use that blue film on new floors. We might even put down homasote in the traffic areas. It is interesting to see everyone's different solution to the same problem.Constructing in metric...
every inch of the way.
you need to prime the drywall now, then install the flooring, sand and apply one or two coats of finish.
then install the doors and trim pre-primed.
then finish painting
come back and screen the floors and final coat
the floor sanding is going to leave dust all over the walls, cieling and millwork. you dont want that on newly painted surfaces
After the drywall is done prime, why would you wait until other things are in the way?
Then have your floors installed, sanded and two coats of finish, save the final coat for when everything else is done.
If you have paint grade trim it should be primed before installing, then install.
Have your painters (or yourself) do all the painting, walls and trim.
Have the floor guys back to do the last coat of finish.
Doug
I like to paint the entire house after drywall is done and touch it up (essentially repaint the majority of the walls and trim) after everything else is in. This works great if the color scheme is not clear cut since it gives you an idea of what it's going to be.
Getting color on the walls early on will show off imperfections that can be reworked as they are seen instead of trying to get them all at the end.
Painted walls are also much easier to work around.
I'm not suggesting prepainting the trim, since this never turns out as well as painting it in place.
As for the order to install flooring and whatnot, that depends on how hard you are on these things during the rest of construction. I'd never finish a hardwood floor early on and expect it to survive if a dozen Tom, Dick and Harry's are going to be working on it. However, if it were just me I wouldn't hesitate finishing the floor and working on a dropcloth. The longer the floor is allowed to cure before furniture is moved in the better. It's a trade off.
With the way I like to build the hardwood is installed prior to trim, sanded, and a sanding sealer is applied to seal the pores of the wood. The floor is taped and treated gently until everything is finished and it's then sanded and finished.
As for other items, do what makes sense. Often there is no reason to follow a set schedule and it's probably good to work on what you feel like working on. Many guys in new construction have been brainwashed into a set order of events, but it doesn't have to be that way to be efficient.
Good building
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I have site finish hardwoods installed very early but don't finish them until the house is trimed and painted. And this finish is just the 1st and second coats of poly. The third (and possibly 4th) coat is the very last thing done on the house - except me handing the HO the key.
I'm no pro, but I've always primed AND painted my trim prior to cutting installing. I always find it easier to lay them all out on a saw horse and do them in one shot.
Then cut, install, and then touch up in the end.
I watched another contractor with some examples of things to not do. I watched a new floor finisher kid working for a sub get put on the floor polisher with some coarse sandpaper. You guessed it-- in the first 10 minutes he bashed into the stain-grade cabinets at least twice.
In another area the floor was put down first, but the painter was horrible and the new prepainted base looked like a bad DIY project.
In either situation the best course of action is whatever is the most safe, and that's not as easy to determine unless all the players are the same each job.
Having said that, installing a finished floor, letting it cure a week, then completely covering it with 1/4" hardboard and keeping the seams 100% taped 100% of the time can work well.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.