I’m having my house repainted. Ordinarily, painting in winter is no problem in San Diego. Unfortunately, this has been our third wettest winter on record, and the job has been going slowly–rain for three or four days every week for a month.
It’s an old house with redwood siding. The paint on the south side was in very bad condition, so I’ve had that side stripped completely, using the Paint Shaver mentioned in a previous FHB article. It does a good job, but takes time. In the meantime, the wood has got wet more than once.
I have three concerns.
(1) Past articles have mentioned that wood shouldn’t be exposed more than two weeks before painting. I still plan to have the exposed side sanded before priming, but a lot of it has been exposed for more than two weeks already. Problem? What to do?
(2) The USDA Forest Products Laboratory recommends using a water-based water repellent on bare wood before priming. I spoke to a person there, and he wouldn’t or couldn’t recommend a particular product. He said a product would have to meet state standards, which may differ from state to state. He did say he thought Sherwin-Williams had one. I spoke to Sherwin-Williams. They don’t. They also didn’t think it was necessary to use one. I spoke to Thompson’s (Water Seal)–who, it turns out, belong to Sherwin-Williams. They say that Water Seal would work, but it has to dry for 30 days before primer can be put over it. Any suggestions on products available in California? Is such a water repellent really necessary or useful?
(3) The exposed nail heads on the stripped side are starting to rust and stain the wood. Maybe they were originally galvanized, maybe not. Maybe the Paint Shaver took off the galvanizing. I had the painter set them with a nail set and fill with painter’s putty, but still they’re visibly black. I’m concerned that they will stain through the paint. What to do? Will stain-blocking primer be sufficient? Is there something else to use or to do?
Suggestions will be appreciated.
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I'm going to remain silent on the water repellant issue, but will make a comment about the rusty nail heads.
I've encountered this problem several times over the years on clapboard siding that was face-nailed with common nails…..and I've had very good success holding back the rust staining by hitting every nail head with several coats of aluminum paint from an aerosol can. No fun making several trips around the house, but it seems to work well. Ten years on the latest one and no sign of rust stains coming thru yet.
I did…..........aluminum paint on nail heads, then primer, then two topcoats.
Thanks for your comment. In the meantime, I called the Kilz company, who said that their stain-blocking primer should be sufficient in itself. Do you have any experience with it?
In my experience, the aluminum paint is far superior to the Kilz on most any truly aggressive stain problem.Kilz was attempted on these rusty nail stains during previous paint jobs and the rust stains began showing at the surface in about two years. Ten years so far with the aluminum paint and nothing to be seen thus far.I've also used aluminum paint to stop tenenacious stains on the plaster ceilings of old houses that bleed right thru Kilz, Bin, you name it .....again within about two years. Haven't reappeared thru a couple coats of aluminum paint yet. Kilz and such seem to do fine with your run-of-the- mill type staining problems, but just can't handle the tough stuff for all that long. Same for a couple coats of shellac. Pretty good for alot of stuff, but can't handle demonic stains.It's to your advantage if you can find the aluminum paint in a flat sheen. Much of it in aerosol cans comes as glossy and then that makes for a bit more trouble to get adhesion and coverage with your primer. Might take two coats of primer over it instead of one. If you can find the aluminum paint in a "high heat" variety, it will most likely be a "flat"......or at least that's been my experience. Automotive supply house or automotive paint supply house might be a good bet if you don't find it at a hardware store.Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Edited 2/25/2005 11:06 am ET by GOLDHILLER
Thanks very much for your help. I'll look for some flat aluminum paint.
I'll be buying some aluminum paint this Summer too.
Goldhiller,
Boy, am I relieved to know that there is an alternative to Kilz -- an alternative that works!
I painted the ceiling in my mom's dining room (which had suffered water damage years before she bought it) and primed and primed, to no avail!
I'm pullin' my pants on right now, gonna jump in that old Ford and rumble down the road to get me some flat aluminum paint!
Thanks, with a big sigh of relief,
Doug
Northeastern Indiana
p.s. gotta ask -- is there one brand that is better than another? is this best used in a spray can format? how about brushing it on?
Sure you can brush it on. Or roll it if you like. Or load your spray gun. My problem around here the last few years is finding aluminum flat in a "bulk" can. Consequently, I have brushed the glossy variety on ceiling stains, but like I said........it can make priming over it a bit more aggravating.I used the aerosol cans on the exterior nail heads cause it was easiest to carry that up and down the ladder. You could probably get enough on in one trip if you used a brush, come to think of it. I'll maybe do that next time. My finger got dang tired of pressing the can valve a million times, too. <G>Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
I'm having the same issue here on some of the new work that I personally didnt frame...those guys didnt use galvies (dipshids). I thought to counter sink the nails a bit....and fill the indents with Minwax two part epoxy filler before I finish painting.
Pain in the azz but......its only on the porkchops pretty much.
BE well
a...The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
Hi, Goldhiller,
Another question for you: do you have any specific products you can recommend? Now that I've looked around some, I haven't found any "aluminum paint" by that name, nor any sellers who are quite sure what it is. There are several aluminum-colored paints that don't say what's in them. There are paints by several manufacturers (Krylon, Duplicolor, Rustoleum) that are claimed to be rust-killing, some of which come in aluminum colors, but none say they contain aluminum. The only specifically high-heat one I've seen so far is Duplicolor high-heat with ceramic. I don't know if a top coat of primer or paint will stick to it or not. Tomorrow I'll try to contact manufacturers; but if you recall what you used ten years ago, I'd go for that.
Thanks for your help.
Bill
Jasco has several different products that water repelants and protectants and also paintable.
Is that what he meant, or is it paint for aluminum?
I think he means an aluminum-bearing paint such as is used for chain link fence and galvanized roofing. The aluminum helps give this paint a rust-retarding effect.However, for individual nails that are rusting, and an overall surface that will be painted, I'd be inclined to use a rust-converting primer on the nail heads. It's important to put this primer on (just the nail heads) when there is at least a thin coating of rust on the nail, since the primer works by binding to the rust and converting it to a hard, rust-inhibiting chemical. (It sets to a dark brown or black, so keep that in mind -- will require good coverage if coated with white, eg.)Most hardware stores and pretty much all auto parts places will carry this.
Okay. Went down and prowled around the basement until I found a near empty can of the flat stuff. High heat variety that came from True Value. Also found a can of the glossy variety that came from Farm & Fleet and this is a Valspar product....although the can bears the Farm & Fleet label. (The F&F doesn't say "gloss" on the can, but it is. For that matter, that high-heat can doesn't say it's flat either, but it is.)Dan H is correct. These are aluminum bearing paints as that's where the color is derived from. The True Value can (actual manufacturer unknown) gives the aluminum powder in the listing of ingredients, but the Valspar product has no listing of any contents on the label...but the aluminum is in there. I'd suppose that any aluminum colored paint would bear the aluminum powder. Or at the least I can say I've never had one fail me yet. Several coats from the aerosol or a good heavy coat off a brush should leave enough powder accumulated on the surface to do the deed. I've used the rust converting products with good success also. Never found it hard to prime or paint over myself. Have used it on all manner of stuff when sandblasting wasn't in the cards.... maybe around 20 years ago the first time. Used it on some gutters just last summer.Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Edited 2/27/2005 8:44 pm ET by GOLDHILLER
rusty nails in clapboards
Could you clarify "aluminum paint". I am dealing with a white garage that has clapboards with nails the have bled through.
The building is in Maine and obviously freezes. The building is currently painted white and will be repainted white.
Real aluminum paint that has aluminum in it is usually silver. Or are you referring to regular rustoleum type paint that
can be bought in any color? Will glossy latex acryllic adhear to this aluminum paint?
There are a number of different primers that would work, but an alkyd leafing aluminum paint is what was spoke of. It is shiny silver colored paint, so you would just paint the nailheads. A little goes a long way. Just plain silver colored paint may not be any better than usual primer, it's the leafing aluminum flakes that seal moisture out.
http://protective.sherwin-williams.com/detail.jsp?A=sku-25952%3aproduct-6770
http://www.paintdocs.com/webmsds/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=STORECAT&doctype=PDS&lang=E&prodno=B59S11
But for actual rust the automotive-style rust-converting primer is superior.
I have had little luck with them on autobody work. In fact, I think they are next to useless, despite the claims. I've tried many different ones, and now avoid them. You have to remove the rust and treat the metal with phosphoric acid for best results. They DO NOT cause rust to be transformed to anything but black colored rust.
I've used the stuff on several occasions, with good results. I do recall, however, that some brands are vastly superior to others. When it works the rust converts into an almost ceramic-like coating (though dark brown).
Like most everything, there good and bad products. I have used automotive products by SEM (translation EXPENSIVE) as well as the cheap products (Duro, rustoleum etc) amd they always fail over time. Some say they have to be topcoated, some say not necessary. Right after coating, they do look like a hard ceramic coating, but they really do not work that well for me. I will never use them on the body of vehicles again. Underneath, maybe, maybe not.
try priming with red oxide primer ( stuff put on I beams ) or you could use the krylon rust converter primer.. not to convert the rust but to seal the metal, then topcoat with whatever primer you are going to use.
as to the waterseal, i have never heard of that and i am up north from you (san francisco ), we just put up the siding, prime the nail heads with red oxide, fill and sand then prime and paint.
If your raw wood sits in the elements for a while you should let it dry out thouroughly. go to a part of the house that still has good paint and sand off a small section.. take a moisture sample with a meater and don't paint the bare wood until you are very close to the reading from the protected wood you sampled earlier.
sand it down before you prime if it has been out for a while.
hope that was at least a little helpfull
james
first comment/observation is cedar usually calls for stainless, but given the age of the house, might not have been available, second, you might be able to bleach out the nail stains (oxalic acid/wood bleach)
I have seen some coverage that says wood treated with a paintable wood preservative, primed with an oil based primer and painted with a latex topcoat lasts the longest. That being said, I don't know of any name brand preservative. I'd be checking out the paint or speciality finish company sites.
there are latex primers that can used on "damp" wood and since water behind the finish is usually the cause of lifting, as the latex dries, the wood is supposed to dry as well - in theory.
hope this helps
Just a thought but you might want to try something like Zero Rust or POR 15 on the nail heads. These are moisture cure urethane paints that are used to seal metal surfaces that have rusted. They work by blocking the oxygen from reaching the metal much the same way other paint works but are tougher. Find them at auto parts store or online.
You could also countersink the nail heads and use two part epoxy putty to fill the holes. It is sold under differenet names and for different uses - it's all pretty much the same product - but the best place to find it is in the plumbing section of HD. It's much cheaper there. It water proof, tough and cheap - if you buy the plumber's varity.
I've never tried it, but hearing what's been said here about aluminum paint working, maybe "cold galvanizing" spray paint would work too- or maybe even better. This stuff is basically an alkyd paint with 35% zinc and is amazing at stopping rust on exposed steel items. You can get it at most industrial hardware stores- I've never seen it at Home Despot.
Cedar's nasty on even galvanized articles. I've used stainless on all my cedar but I realize it's not an option for your situation.
Painting rusty nail bleed through
Once a nail starts to rust there is really no stopping it. Treating the surface; the rust is also underneath. Counter-sinking the nail: rust will eventually come back through. Two choices to elimitnate the rust bleed; 1Pull the nail using the claw side of the nail puller 2. Best way in my opinion is to remove the nail head using the drill bit from Nail Head Gone.
I figured you should include a picture of a Nail Head Gone:
If you want to fix anything correctly, you need to get to the source of the problem. I see two potential problems: siding nails are not galvanized and the siding was not back/end primed. You can hope to remedy the first but not the second condition...sigh.
You don't want raw wood to be exposed for too long because it a) expands and contracts and, more importantly b) moisture may be trapped BEHIND it. I suggest you set nail heads and apply an expoxy putty. Then sand and prime.