*
I have been a faithful follower of the forum for a few years and certainly value the opinions and suggestions put forward.
I am now in need of a new roof on my late 50’s ranch in southern New Jersey. I will be looking for a contractor to do the work. The decking appears to be fine, it being 1 X 6 tongue and groove. I am one of those people that don’t want to do this more than once in my lifetime and as such I have a number of questions that hopefully you fine folks can help me with. Please bear with me as I am sure you will find some of the questions rather ridiculous!!!
1. Asphalt or fiberglass?? I have read with interest the recent article in the Journal of Light Construction but would appreciate your thoughts given my desire for longevity and the climate in South Jersey (not near the water).
2. Suggestions as to brand?
3. Any bennefit to using ice shield instead of felt other than cost? Any drawbacks?
4.Should all flashings be relaced? I assume so. Copper vs. aluminum ? Are there various thicknesses or is there a standard for roofing?
5. Current vent is a powered fan through the roof and eave vents. Should I install a ridge vent and forget the fan?
6 Should the various stacks be reflashed?
7. Finally, any suggestions as to what I should look for in a contractor?
Thanks in advance for the help!!!
Replies
*
ranch....what flashings are you talking about?
any 40 year shingle would be good..
my 1st choice would be Certainteed Hatteras..
or more pricey.. Certainteed Grand Manor
or a Certainteed 40 year architectural
Hurricane nail ... 6 nails / shingle
strip , renail deck...
flashings : aluminum coil stock..no mill finish, paint all vents to complement the shingle color..
reolace all plumbing boots.
ice & water eaves & rakes, 15# felt the balance
nails .. no staples.. if hand nailed. then Hot dipped galv..if guns. then i prefer Paslode for best galvanize
what kind of chimney do you have? what kind of chimney flashings ?
*I would go with what Mike said for material and technique. As far as finding a contractor, I would definetly get 3 bids and then check them out with the BBB in your area. You could also ask around and see who other people recommend or who to stay away from.Dave
*Our Local HD sells Owens Corning 50 year, Deep Shadow. Anyone have experience with that? Are all asphalt shingles created equal?steve
*I also think Mike's advice is excellent. I'd scrap the power vents and use ridge vent - Provided that you have i functional eave vents. Six nails per shingle isn't done often, but makes a lot of difference in keeping the shingles on the roof in high winds.
*steve... no matter what HD sells.. i wouldn't buy them.. i want the roofer to supply the shingles and his distributor to stand behind them.. and the mfr. to back up the distributor..it's generally good policy to have your contractor supply the materials.. so there is only one entity you have to contact if there is a problemboss... good point. ...the vents i was talking would be the bath fan vent.. and the kitchen fan vent.. we don't use mushroom vents.. if we are venting an attic we use only ridge vents.. and the only brand we use is Shingle Vent II...
*The article you mentioned on the problems with fiberglass shingles was excellent. My experience supports it. I'm in a colder climate (Canadian border) than you, but here's my experience.Our church had fiberglass shingle put on when it was new 15 years ago. After about 5 years we would find a handfull of shingles scattered about each spring after the snow melted. It got worse each year. Our patching with standard shingles always held. After about 15 years the roof really looked ugly from all the patching and we finally had the money to have it all ripped off and replaced.My boss's house is 12 years old. He's lost a number of shingles, and others are worn so the fibers show. They have had leaks. I've climbed up and looked at his roof myself. It's bad. He had his whole roof replaced this year.I think a roof should last longer than 5 to 10 years before shingle start falling off, so I would agree with the above article that fiberglass shingles are prone to trouble.
*Certanteed Hatteras shingles are engineered to withstand high winds (they have a double adhesive strip). Grand Manors are so damn heavy they probably won't blow off. The problem I see with these shingles is they haven't been made for 40 or 50 years yet, so we don't know if they'll last that long or how they'll look after 30 years. Reflash everything. Use ridge vent. Verify that your soffit vents are unobstructed.Mike Smith: I live in the middle of the country. Is there a coastal reason for not using copper? What about lead-coated copper?
*Grant, I am a roofing contractor in Akron,Ohio which for the sake of conversation I will assume has a similar climate to yours.( Cold,snowy,rainy in winter----hot,humid in summer.-10*to about 100* temp. range).You mentioned that you have a ranch house.Assuming a lower pitched roof common to ranches---say a 4/12---I don't think I would go with a Certainteed Hatteras or a Grand Manor shingle. Both of these shingles definitely look much better on a steep roof and are quite expensive.On a 4/12 roof you will not be getting the look that you are paying for or the look that the shingles are designed for.Over the last 6 months or so,the major players in shingle manufacturing that I am using( Elk,Owens Corning & Certainteed have all been playing "don't pick up the soap" regaurding their shingle warrantees. Each company is trying to out-do each other with better warrrantys without really changing the shingles.It is now quite easy to get a laminated shingle with a 50 year warranty.the wind rating on a 50 year architectural laminated shingle is excellent---much higher than say, a 25 year 3-tab shingle.If you have a 4/12 pitch roof in an area that is not considered a real high wind area the wind rating prob. should not be a major concern of yours.From personal obsevation----ranch style roofs properly installed at the proper time of year(not mid-winter)are not a big wind risk. the low pitch of the roof does not create nearly as much uplift on the shingles as a steeper pitched roof. I find most blow-offs on 10/12 to 12/12 roofs within 3 feet of the ridge. Very rare for me to spot blow-offs on any other pitch roof or in any other location if the roof was properly installed. on a 4/12 roof if cost was no object I would suggest1)A 50 year architectural laminated shingle.( I would prob. use Elk,but all of this type are good). you won't get the full effect of the design intended on a 4/12 but it will be much closer to the intended look than the grand manor or the hatteras.2)6 nailing is good---I am much more likely to do it on a steeper roof but it is a good detail.It is an pattern not usually done so the actual applicators will not be accustomed to doing it. Expect them to forget and slip back into the 4 nailing pattern. don't worry.3)Assuming a large ranch style overhang I would like to Icegaurd about 6 feet up the roof.4)15# felt good,30# better.I am looking forward this spring to trying out an underlayment developed for the metal roofing market. 5 ft. high rolls of woven polyester with a non skid coating on the weather side reported to self seal around nail holes,giving partial ice gaurd protection. Its a little pricey at about $150 per 10 square roll.5)nails,no staples6)I can get a nice roll of aluminum flashing in about 20 different colors. this lets the roofer closely match the shingles or gives him the opportunity for a bit of contrasting color if you want an accent.I don't use a lot of pod or slant back vents but I can get them in about 4 standard colors.Elk sells a line of paint that coordinate with their shingle colors so you can repaint any metal products.7)new pre-painted waste stack boots8)copper would be nice,but it is probably overkill on a roofing product that isn't gonna last more than 40-50 years.also---not everyone likes the color of copper--new or old. a lot of people would rather have all the roof metal match the color of the siding.9) I am not a real fan of ANY roof venting system. In fact I am kind of tired of hearing from prospective customers that they "need" a ridge vent cause their brother in law told them that "ridge venting" is the way to go.they are convinced of the superiority of ridge venting on rumor---but they don't want to pay for soffit venting to make it actually work.----in your case I might look into replacing the power vent with a new top of the line fan,making sure that the cover was metal instead of plastic that might degrade in the suns UV rays.10) I would make sure the mortar work and mortar cap on the chimney was in good condition.you don't want to foul up your new roof 5 years down the road with masonry repairs.11) go look at your prospective roofers previous work.check out the metal work,particularly in valleys and around chimneys.chimney flashing can tell you A LOT about a roofers skill level.12) get a workers comp. certificate and a liability insurance certificate from the roofer BEFORE work starts.13) if possible look at a job "in progress"--- do you like that dumpster blocking the driveway or killing the grass on the lawn?At night do you like air hoses left hanging from the roof?Do you like piles of equipment left scattered in the yard over night?Insist all debris be removed from the job each day. Insist all equipment be packed up and preferably removed each day.Absolutely refuse under any circumstances to allow any ladders to be left up over night.Tell the contractor up front that a clean yard is important to you----make sure the yard is clean before you pay.14) if you want premium service and premium product be prepared to pay.Let the roofer do his job and he will likely handle details that you never thought of and throw in details you never paid for. Pester him,be a PITA,and he will stick to the letter of the contract and rush to get away from you.
*Steve's point #13 is a good one - Some roofers around here clean up and tarp every night. Most don't. That's a good point for discussion ahead of time.
*Stephen - All very good points. I only suggested products that I am very familiar with. I am sure there are many other good products out there. I agree that the two Certainteed products look better on steeper roofs and are VERY pricey. In my area (Lexington, KY), Elk is not currently being sold. They were dropped several years ago by the distributer for not honoring warranty problems of which there were many from what I understand. Who makes the 5' wide underlayment? Sounds interesting.
*grant.. all things are relative.. however.. our base quote is always for Certainteed XT-30 about $30 / sq... to go to Hatteras is about $57.. so for a 20 sq. roof.. the upcharge is less than $600.. now Grand Manor.. ok..but moving up in shingle selection is usually a wise thing to do.. as to appearance.. again.. if real slate will look good on your roof.. either the Hatteras or Grand Manor will too.. let's face it... low pitched roofs look best with metal or spanish tile...it's hard to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse...in any case.. my minimum would be a 40 year shingle for Rodger...the copper or lead-coat copper is overkill... i still haven't heard from Rodger where he has any flashings...i usually save the copper for wood roofs
*|:-)>|
*Grant,I gotta apologise here-----when I mentioned your name specifically I was under the mistaken impression that you were the original poster.I should have double checked---then I would have seen that Roger was the original poster.You did bring up an interesting point regaurding warranty service.I am located in Akron----Owenscorning has a shingle plant located 30 minutes away in Medina,Ohio.Certainteed has a plant located a couple of hours away in Avery,Ohio.I would think that these two companies would provide me superior service given their geographic advantage.In actuality Elk beats them hands down---and Elks closest plant is in Pennsylvania.Even before the new Elk plant opened a couple of years ago and all of their shingles were being shipped up here from the south ,Elk still outserviced O.C and Certainteed.I can get the local Elk rep and the local OC rep on the phone quickly at any time and both are quite helpfull in answering questions and providing tons of product lit.Certainteed is a different matter. Certainteed does send out a nice newsletter but I have to jump through all sorts of hoops to get any other service.I wouldn't quite say certainteed is obstructive but I will say they are un-cooperative compared to OC and Elk.I am going to a Certainteed seminar on 2-26 and an Elk seminar on 2-28. Maybe I should ask the folks at Certainteed "what gives?"
*I don't agree that Grand Manor looks best on steep roofs. It looks a lot like slate on a 6:12 pitch, but when you get up to 10:12 or steeper it's "in your face" and it becomes more obvious, due to laminations and 45-degree cut corners, that it is not slate.JMO - Yes, I have it on my house.Jeff
*Second the motion for Elk brand roofing. Get the job done early/cool... Elk seals well at lower temps., and gets gummy over 80F... so plan this for no later than early June or later in September. The sales rep dropped off the new sample boards and lit., nice colors, and a variety of profile definitions.-GWC
*Folks:As I always knew you guys are great and I can't thank you enough for the advice. Hopefully it can make me a better consumer as expectations can be spelled out ahead and priced into the job. This should allow me to avoid being that PITA.Mike, I apologize for not responding sooner. The flashing that I am referring to is chimney flashing. I have a exposed brick chimney on the side of the house. Currently it does not appear to be step flashed but rather somewhat crudely flashed with a strip of tarred aluminum. Also, since you all have been so free with the advice, is there any benefit from using ice shield for the whole roof instead of felt underlayment, or am I really getting crazy now?Once again, I really do appreciate all the time you folks have given me!!!Thanks Roger
*rodger... your chimney flashings will mostly be subject to local practise.. here in RI.. the standard is lead.. and the upgrade is copper...almost no one uses aluminum for chimney flashings..in most of the country all they use is aluminum.. the tarred effect is usually the result of a ham&egger doing a quick fix.. i'd put new chimney flashings in your spec sheet... you don't want to spend that kind of money and look at that mess afterwards..stephen... in our continuing discussion.. here Elk gives short shrift.. and Certainteed services the hell out of us.. so much of this has to do with regional differences and also the strength of local distributors..another thing is .. the individual roofer can best advise who is backing him up and who isn't.. i wouldn't force a roofer into switching brands if they don't want it..new testing and consolidation in the industry is leveling the field of quality... leveling it in a better direction IMO. ....i'd use either mfr. depending on what you like and what the roofer recommends
*Roger - The only two drawbacks to Ice & Water the whole way up are (1) cost and (2) PITA to apply. I specify it on all eaves and valleys (BOCA code requirement at eaves) and full up on low-pitch (< 4:12) and under shakes and slates.It's self-sealing to some degree, which gives it an advantage over felt. It is not a magic bullet.Copper flashing is much less obvious against brick, as it will be brown for the next 30 years or so. Lead-coated copper will likely last longer - very shiny at first, dulls to gray.Jeff
*If you don't ever want to have to reroof again, look into putting tile on your roof - lightweight concrete tile or lightweight clay tile. It's more expensive than asphalt shingles but many of the roof tile manufacturers offer a lifetime warrany - the life of the house, not yours. There are clay tile roofs in Europe and Asia that have lasted for hundreds of years and are still keeping the rain out today.Do it once, do it right, and you'll never have to do it again.
*Stephen, can you give a hint as to the underlayment you mentioned (5' rolls)?Thanks, Dustin
*Dustin, I am currently in the process of checking with my preferred shingle manufacturer to make sure that this material will not void any shingle warranties.There are 2 new underlayments that I am looking at. The manufacturer was already testing one,but wasn't aware of the other.I had a encouraging discussion with several tech people from the company at a recent seminar.The end result is that once I get the ok from the shingle folks,AND,once I use the material enough to honestly report back here----then I will spill the beans regaurding brand,performance etc.Sorry I can't help more at this time,but it is coming.