No post needed.
My friends, I think it’s time to call it quits.
I’ve checked in for a few months. I scroll, I don’t see any authors. Occasionally I see a topic that might interest me. I look at the replies and see a very small number. I look for the author. It isn’t listed. And so, I don’t open it.
Quittin time aint any better. I’m sure Joe Fusco’s site is laced with attack dogs.
I’m movin on. It’s been nice knowing yall. Email me if anything ever changes.
blue
Replies
"I look for the author. It isn't listed. And so, I don't open it. "
Scroll the mouse pointer over the thread name and watch the bar at the bootom of the screen. Voila!
Mr Walker,
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Edited 5/26/2002 6:34:40 PM ET by J Fusco
Joe
Thanks for the invite, I'll try to stop by. Somehow, the conservatives here aren't rising to the fairly baited comments I've made the last few days. I quess either I'm on their twit filters or they just can't overcome the impecable logic and eloquence of my recent political posts!
Now that I think of it, it must be the latter!
Bob, I know you aren't too dense to know that there isn't anyone here participating. You can throw out all the liberal bait that you want and you won't resurrect a lively debate because this site lacks the tools to bring people together.
That was the entire point of this thread. Your innocent observations are the proof in the pudding.
blue
I just thought it was another piece of mindless liberal drivel unworthy of comment as it would expose it's own lack of truth and common sense without my comments.
In fact I think the liberals should have LOTS more media exposure.
Bob, I'm much too lazy to drag my mouse over that list. I don't like to use the mouse and much prefer keyboard shortcuts.
Is listing that author that much trouble? I'm sure any high school kid could write the code to include that info.
blue
blue... finally found that photo of grandma smith fishing in the drainage canals around Capac about 1922 or so....now all i gotta do is find out how to scan it in...Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Cmon Mike, you must have the latest scanner, copier, printer, fax machines that they are now giving away at Best Buy.....They're now down to throaway prices. Hell, maybe I'll ship you one....do you want inkjet or laser?
If you ever get that thing scanned, you better email it. I have't looked at a picture on these sites for probably a year. I'm still out in the boonies using a 28k feed!
If you guys ever get that other site working (I hated that format-I've seen similar stuff in other sites), drop me a line. I really did learn a lot from you. I've been kibitzing with Sue, who is trying to entice me to a someonefest. In light of this awful turn of events (Breaktime suicide), I might actually make a detour and seek out some of your traveling circus parties. On the other hand, I've already got some travels planned and a full workload this summer too.
I'd really like to meet up with you some day. I'm sure you'd be a full fledged Libertarian after we parted company....
blue
So I may be easily amused, but I like the site and the magazine it comes from. Its been educational and entertaining for me and I think I'll keep checking in. Hey, I may even talk to someone one of these days..........
Bob , On my computer it sometimes shows the auther, most of the time it does not.
On mine, with Netscape 4.74, I could occasionally see author. So I 'upgraded' to Netscape 6.2 and now I can't see any of it. Plus my screen space devoted to the actuall message got smaller. So there must be options in browser settings someplace.
Excellence is its own reward!
Don, after I checked out Bob's idea, I found that most of the time the author didn't show up on my computer either. Even if it did all the time, I still wouldn't like to have to hover, using the mouse.
Another, extremely annoying thing about this horrible site is the reply thing. When I checked in here, there were 15 replies to my original post. I know from previous frustrating experiences here, that I better read all the posts, before I reply to anyone. If I just reply to the first post, which was Bob Walker, every thing gets lost. So, today, I read all 15 posts with the intention of absorbing everything, then answering in one long post to everyone. Of course, since I'm old and my short term memory is weak, I decided to try a different strategy. I right clicked and opened a reply dialogue box in a New Window.
I was quite clever, until I forgot on the second reply (to you) and lost the thread! After going f ** K ing crazy clicking and looking, I managed to somehow get back to almost where I was.
Life is too short to fight this crappy software. This is not enjoyable.
My point here, is that it is too hard to have a flowing conversation. It'll never work. Obviously no one at Taunton ever had a flowing conversation, and therefore don't understand that there is a problem. They obviously only jumped in, here and there and killed a thread or message. Their job was to monitor, not engage in conversation.
blue
ps I managed to right click and open this message in it's own window. Now, I'll be able to keep moving down the line answering the rest in this thread. Of course, when anyone reads my replies, they won't understand to who and what I'm responding to......
Blue- I just bought the new issue of FHB annual issue on houses. The only reason I bought it was a sense of obligation to feed the kitty since I frequent this site so often. The suckin' thing was cover priced at $7.99 minus 10% at the big box. I used to have a subscription but let it go since I travel so much the issues would bunch up at home and I wanted to read wherever I was working. One of these days I'm going to get multiple issues and cut out all the advertisements just to see what actual substance I'm paying my bucks for. Don't leave because you think the site is too shallow, leave because they have the audacity to charge 7plus for their advertising catalogue.
Rez, I really can't comment about the content of the Magazine or the price. I'm not a subscription kinda guy. The last time I had a subscription was in the early 80's. I remember thinking at that time that most of the stuff was either way beyond me, or way behind me. Let me explain.
I was only interested in framing and the only framing poster was Bob Haun. With all due respect to him, I really didn't learn anything, nor would I do anything much that he does.
I'm really not interested in finishing/trim/millwork/cabinetbuilding/plumbing/ etc.
So, after a year or so subscription, I kinda just let it go. I would often peruse the latest copy at a store, and buy the current issue if it had a decent framing article in it (they never do).
Basically, framers, and framing are routinely looked down on in these type of trade journals. There rarely is any in depth discussion of framing or framing issues. The authors really just want to rush by and get to the finish. The world of framing just seems so mundane....
Of course, if you are going to do a post and beam frame, they'll lay palms down for you to walk on.....
Basically, I was always jealous of the coverage everyone else got in the rags. The framing was always just a rehash of old, outdated information. I still see that in most rags today.
Anyways, I don't mind a lot of ads. The ads are somewhat useful for eduacational purposes. Too bad you have to learn to sift through so much homeowner hype however....
blue
PS I never felt bad about not paying my way....I kinda figured that since I was only earning Carpenter wages, and I was only earning FRAMING carpenter wages, I had the right to be too poor to afford FINE homebuilding.
I would have paid dearly to read a ROUGH HOMEBUILDING though!
Blue,
I for one am sorry to see that you are having difficulty with this change. I've always enjoyed reading what you've had to say even though I've never had the occasion to respond to any of it.
The change to this new forum is exactly that - CHANGE. Frankly, that's life. It always changes. And the only thing we can ever be certain of is change. (Other than taxes, death, or our wives getting pissed off.) As humans, we need to be able to accept, or perhaps better worded, adapt, to change.
If you do follow through on your claim that this is your last post, some of us will be worse off for it. I think you will be one of those. I know I will.
I'm also sorry to see some of the others that have lost patience and felt it was imperative that they had to leave. But then again, that's change.
I know I miss Stan and his postings about stairs. Now he was a class act. Stuck to the topic and gave extremely insightful hints about his craft. I loved his posting of pictures and creations. If I still lived somewhere near him, I would go out of my way and be willing to pay his price just to have him do a job for me. When someone is as competent as he obviously is, yet shows humility the way he did without the arrogance others do, one just has to go out of their way to deal with him.
I also miss splinter. Although some didn't agree with everything she had to say, from my perspective, she had herself together. In addition, her "handle" was one of the most creative I've ever heard.
But there's a few I don't miss and am glad to see they've gone another way. The condescending comments and flamboyance about their posts frankly stunk up the place. With their know-it-all attitudes, I wonder how they could afford to put food on the table if it weren't for such a bull market in construction. When I'm interviewing contractors and come across such individuals, no matter what their bid or references say, I pass them by.
You know how your business operates. You know where to apply the extra effort and where it doesn't matter. All businesspeople are the same way. At least all EFFECTIVE businesspeople that is. Taunton is no different. Their income comes from advertising and selling magazines and books. We read those magazines and books because they offer us some value. But in reality, what does Taunton get from running this website? I spend time here because of guys like you as well as not having to constantly wipe out pop up ads. There is no advertising here. It seems to be simply another mechanism to get people to buy those books and mags. Accordingly, just like any other effective businessperson, when times get tough, some other methods need to be employed which are more cost effective. This change to prospero appears to me to be cost driven. I believe we need to understand as part of the big picture sometimes these cost driven changes need to be accepted and we must adapt. As you point out, some of these prospero changes aren't really desirable, but on the other hand, some others offer opportunities. We simply need to focus on those that offer us those opportunities and try not to dwell on those that "aren't the same."
Give it some time, buddy. And remember, "There has to be a pony in here somewhere!
Now having said that, what do you think about the goofball architect that put the 3' door opening in that circular wall in the most recent issue? The one that required all that complicated framing (using 2x8 studs) involving sandwiched plywood for the plates? Looking at the article made me think, "what was so important about having this circular wall that required such complexity?" Did the architect have no concept of the framing issues underlying this creation? What drove the homeowner to want such a detail in the first place? (And these questions are coming from someone that has to put his low voltage landscape light wiring in conduits!)
Best wishes.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart Stonefever. I wish you would have piped in more in previous better settings. I can tell from this one post that you are the type of level headed person that brings good stuff to the table.
I do accept that change has to occur. Taunton had something good. Money (or whatever) has changed it for the worse.
I used to use an old Rockwell saw. They bought Porter Cable out, then created a piece of junk saw. They then labeled it Porter Cable, to try to entice the old buzzards that knew of the PC name.
The saw was still junk. Change had occured.
I moved on. I bought a Milwaukee. Ten years later, the Milwaukee changed. It was still good. But I tried something different anyways. I decided to change and use Makita.
Change happens.
Okay, so Taunton has decided to change to a lower grade product on line. They've taken the path that Porter Cable has....and now I move on.
Yes, Stonefever, this is definitely my last post in Propero junkland. Prospero is being tossed into the deep dark corner of my barn, with the memento garbage tools of my past. The old junk PC aggravated me, and I refuse to live an aggravated life, if I can do something about it. I've tried to do something in here, by pointing out that the Emporer has no clothes. The Emporer has heard, looked down, and continues to proudly strut his stuff. Unfortunatly, he is fat and ugly and hurts my eyes. I'm going to look elsewhere....
I may look into doing a Listserve thing. I participated for several years in a Soccer Reffing forum (I was quite involved in Soccer for about 15 years-I miss it sometimes...) Anyways, the refs have a Listserve thing going. I never registered because I didn't like checking my email. Now, however, because of my latest Network Marketing venture, I check my email at least ten times per day. A listserve would now work for me. Im thinkng I/we could create a significant, meaningful fluent conversation using the Listserve thing.
I miss Stan and Splinty too. It's been months since I've seen or heard from many old good participants. That's why I know it's time to move on....
I agree that Taunton should make business decisions that benefit their own bottom line. I don't agree that they should misrepresent the truth. Of course they claim that budget isn't a factor (my step father-in-law, a successful funeral home director/owner would whisper about the times he was eating his last piece of bread in a bare cuppboard while driving a big Cadilac to project a successful image) but I understand.....they gotta do what they gotta do. But....I do too.....
About that roung wall thing: I didn't see it. I don't subsribe. I have a few issues from the 80's in the barn. Let me take a shot at it anyways. Architects like to show their creativity. If every house was a square box, life would be boring. I personally hate round stuff in houses. I also hate eccentric architects. About a year or so ago, I had a few questions about a big ff'n whoarhouse that I was being asked to bid on. My rough bid was $320k. A rebid without crane costs and beam setting dropped it to about $280k or something like that. Anyways, I was asked again to rebid...the footings were finally being poured. It had too much round stuff...I simply refused and withdrew my interest. I'm not sure who was the eccentric in this one...the architect of the owner...either way, I'd rather chase a Network Marketing Associate.....
A 3-0 door in a round wall sounds small.....the architect should have specced a 3'-3.8732" custom made hand carved door, carved from virgin poplar, laced with kickapoo juice......
Thank the powers that be that I can choose to refuse such work.....
blue
Blue,
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Thanks Joe. I appreciate that nice sending off. One bad thing about your message though is that it is beyond my comprehension...as usual. You see, I'm not really as smart as I appear to be, and even though I have a dicshunary, I don't see any listing in there for vitriol patience.
I'm sure it's meant to be a compliment, and I sure do appreciate your thoughfulness. I wish I was closer to New York, because I'd mosey on over an accept that hug.
By the way, Bozo was my childhood hero. Even now, every time I think of him, I swoon. Each time you call me Bozo, my heart bursts with pride. Sometimes, my eyes well up with emotion. This is one of those times.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
blue
ps dump that silly cookie trojan horse and I'll come and add my Bozo like wisdom to your site....
Blue,
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"Sorry, all need to register at the forum so I can serve them milk with their Trojan cookies . . ."
Oh. That was a cookie? No wonder I had trouble slipping on the "monster" {G}
>what do you think about the goofball architect that put the 3' door opening in that circular wall in the most recent issue?
I think that curved surfaces make for some of the most comfortable living possible. Do you object to the curved wall or the door opening?
As long as we're digressing - well maybe not since the thread is about personality and curved surfaces bring personality to a house - I think the architect did OK by putting in a door and a curved wall. I would disagree with the method used to accomplish it. I've worked on several older homes with towers and round rooms. The installation af doors was accomplished by creating a bump out surrond for the door in the manner of a greek entablature. It always seems to have worked without decreasing the room size by devoting so much space to wall thickness. That's the same kind of wasted effort as Blue and Gabe going 'roud and 'round - except that it's entertaining watching to see who comes up with the more creative insult.
Maybe it's Blue's style of trying to give us a personality injection thread...Excellence is its own reward!
I liked seeing in the article that their way of doing the curved wall was almost exactly the way I did mine. Helps my confidence. :) The difference is in the door, but I went the opposite way you would have. Of course, my curved wall was for an interior powder room and a greek entablature would have probably looked less appropriate there than as an exterior treatment. I see that they thickened the wall to keep the door casing within the wall thickness. I increased my wall to 2x6 thickness, but just so I could use staggered studs for a bit of sound-proofing. I let the door top over-extend the wall on the inside of the room, and then just tied it into the curved wall above the jamb. Since I have a ring of glass block up there--and a bullnosed edge and nice work by the plasterers--the small "ledge" that creates hasn't caught anyone's attention. What catches attention in that room is that the WC is lined up for a view of the TV for those occasions when one is home alone and can't wait for a commercial--more than you ever wanted to know, huh?! <G>
Stone:
I just happened to be lurking over here at breaktime and was scrolling down...and my name just caught my eye. Thanks for the compliment,,but I was just a small cog in a large wheel. I just had one focus..stairways,,,where many others were very more diversified than I. They made for some very excellent and entertaining reading.
It will never be the same...I miss the old breaktime.. but we must except change,,,and change I did..today is the first I have posted in a few months. Probably wont post again for a few more unless its a reply here.
> what do you think about the goofball architect that put the 3' door opening in that circular wall in the most recent issue? The one that required all that complicated framing ....
What I wonder is why the architect didn't specify a curved door to go in his curved wall....
;-)
-- J.S.
My thought exactly. If they gotta get cute with the curves, then do the whole job that way. Probably would have been cheaper.
Blue, this place sux because people like you don't come here anymore. I am seriously going to miss Boogering W/ Blue 2, and have a serious attitude Booger 1 was poofed. To me that was one of the first photo threads, and led the way for the others, that all got poofed too.
I will gladly say thank you, but don't make me say bye, how about see you later?
err, Joe, this thread has more posts than your site has had in the last month. You can get some WebX software, talk wood, and dance around like a chicken, but your site will never replace this one.
Save your wit, your gun is half empty.
Gabe
Wow, that's like three posts for you this month.
I'm flattered.
I don't understand why you post in the first place. It takes you forever to make a pointless and you contribute less each time.
In all of my postings, you will never find one where I ever use your name as an example or comment.
Hypo-crites have an tendency to point to others in other to give themselves credibility.
Gabe
What the hell are you babbling about now? And why are you wasting your time with me, did you run out of puppies to kick?
You ain't no puppy. A puppy can be trained to paper, you can't.
Gabe
There are some of us who are "old school" and teach our young apprentices all that the carpentry trade has to offer(and requires). We hang the garage doors(though I know I can have a 16 x 8 hung for $65) because I like the way my brackets hang at a 90 degree angle to the ceiling and are parallel to the door. We roof it , cause I want to teach them that when the trusses get off it screws up the roofing too( then they came out with architechtual shingles that hide ALL the F-ups) We can drywall, because sometimes we don't want to wait, and they need to see why the framing needs to be straight. My boys can lay block, and brick. Not a carpentry skill, but sometimes you don't want to wait for ANYBODY.
GC is a nice term.... I prefer builder. I will get it from the plans to the final inspection....and sometimes we have to do it ourselves......we are builders and we will BUILD it!
Pride, bragging rights, whatever you want to call it, we can do it all, from the footings to the finish floor(be it tile or wood) We may not do it as fast as the "sub" who does "IT" and nothing else, but we understand the system that it fits into better, and take our time to get it right, so the WHOLE system functions better. I'm always mindful of the bottom line, but have never let it dictate why I do what I do. I've never gone hungry either.....
Andy...don't lead us on either....spill it or leave it lay....teasing is for the girls.....
Right on the money, brother. That is why I do what I do. And why I like to learn all these,supposed,sub sets of Carpentry. Also, because I am on the site longer than anyone else and am in contact with client more than anyone else I have an investment in the relationship that holds me to a higher standard. Not like these specialists that are in and out in a few days or weeks.
Part of the fun is seeing the project from start to finish.
I am new to this site, and after reading the previous posts under this heading I feel I missed something pretty special. Anyone care to illuminate those of us who just signed on?
Brozyzy, the old site was at least ten times more active. No matter what question was asked, there'd be at least five to ten knowledgelbe people describing their local methods. Every facet of the topic was explored, debated and commented on. A topic would thoroughly be hammered out in no time.
I remember one night, I started a frivolous topic about conversions, you know, milimeters to inches, farenheit to celsius. We put over 200 replies in that topic, that night!
The configuration of the old site was just a lot better for conversing. It was easy to follow all the conversation. It was easy to follow topics that you liked. You didn't get everything shoved down your throat. For instance, I only looked into the htg cooling folder once in three years. Now, I see topics about it every time I look in here. I'd rather substitute the names of the posters for the space taken up by that folder.
You did miss some fun. Maybe it will get better.
Maybe is the key word...
blue
Well, Keith, we may have threaded discussions here within the month. No promises, but we're pushing in that direction. Ideally, folks could view it either way.Andy Engel, Forum moderator
Thanks for the kind words Qrtmeg.
I was actually kinda fired up about doing a Boogerin' II but got blindsided by the site change. There aint a cold chance in hell that I'd invest that type energy into this site now. This site just doesn't have any flow to it. Take a look at this thread. It's freakin weird. The replys are to someone else, no order, no way to figure out who's talking to who about what. I don't know anything about a picture thread in here, but I'm sure it would be so disjointed that it wouldn't make any sense.
Anyways, thanks for your kind compliments. Send a few more my way (even if they're fabricated)... it drives your buddy Gab nuts!
blue
Blue, if it ticks Gabe off that you are here, it is worth it.
And come on, one more for the road, the sysops are fixing the picture limit, and there is nothing I do better than booger.
Come on Guy, I would kill for booger 2.
Qt, its not the picture limit that is the problem, althogh that might be bad too. The problem is in the lack of continuity and lack of threading or something. My replies just end up following each other in a weird way.
Basically, this site sux!
Sorry Andy, Mark...I just got carried away and said it again...I cant help myself.....I'm starting therapy as soon as I delete this bookmark....
blue
ps, Since I'm not starting a new thread, nor opening any others, I better get this out now: The Red Wings will hoist the cup once again! Colorado is done..tired, injured, overworked. They've busted balls to stop our hall of famers and our grind line is left open to pound the puck past a bewildered Woy!
The Wings will prevail tomorrow, possibly in OT. They will blow by Carolina in five!
You heard it here first!
Wanna bet some blocking on that? ;) I'm looking forward to a good 'caning...
BB, yore gonna see a good caning and the Red Wings won't be the recepient. IN fact, the league is considering awarding the Stanley Cup tonite after the Wings pound the Avalange andd just skipping the finals!
I'll bet a hundred cabinet blocks....
blue
Blue, you couldn't be more wrong about our opinion of framers. When I develop the schedule for an issue, I try to include a framing article every time. I bet we do ten stick-framing articles for every timber-frame article. If you don't like the techniques we've shown, how about writing an article yourself? I'd happily talk with you about the possibility.
And btw, I do participate in conversations here. I'm aware of the differences between this and the old forums. Do me a favor and check back in a month.
You'll be missed.Andy Engel, Forum moderator
Andy, it's very possible that I've unfairly lumped FHB into the typical mindset of most rags.
Maybe I'll take you up on the offer to add something, if I ever learn anything interesting about framing. I probably would have been a lot more open to that idea a year or two ago, but now would rather invest my time in other endeavors. At this point in my carpentry career, I'm more inclined to concentrate on funding my retirement, which unfortunately doesn't include any income that would come from carpentry.
If I contribute to an article, I think I'd rather target the poor financial outlook that awaits the average working stiff out here in the mud....
Im not checking back. As this thread dies, I'm deleting bookmarks. If someone emails me, and tells me that this site is fixed, I'll follow their link. I'm pretty well convinced that wysiwyg.
Andy, thanks for putting up with me.
blue
You sound like a divorce. You mentioned you were a carpenter ,you gonna walk of the job before the roof is on? The hardest part of being a carpenter is getting out of the truck in the morning , the easiest is getting in the truck at night ,but at least you were there through the end.
> you gonna walk of the job before the roof is on?
But there are no roofs in cyberspace. These discussions are an ongoing thing, there's no clear cut completion. The only way to stop is to just arbitrarily stop at some point.
-- J.S.
Nails, I am a carpenter and it's not hard to get out of the truck in the morning. There really isn't anything hard about carpentry, about framing a house. It's all child's play.
Now, lets talk about getting out of the truck when i get home at night....
blue
Blue--- Thanks for replying. Getting out of the truck is the hardest thing , relates to the rest is a piece of cake after 300+ houses . There is a class of carpenters that have wore out more nail bags than most people have wore out socks. Its our privilage to be postive about things that influence others in our field. So many times clients have said I dont lide it , and ive asked them please give me the oppurtunity to finish the job and then look at it. FHB/Andy must be in that same situtation . Materials that cant be picked up or delivered , subs that cant get to the job. Then thers someone that wants to change the color of shingles after the roof is on. You and I move in a dumpster and start making the change and the people want to know why its taking longer this time than it did the first time and all we did was what we thought was right. I never was worth a damn at the leadership thing,when one of the guys constantly had a problem with the way things were being done, I took him out to the truck ,cut him a check and offered a handshake and watched Him go down the road . Then came the nagging thought I wasted a bunch of talent and resource. What makes it easier gettingout of the truck at night is remembering opening the door on the job site and looking back and seeing what was accomplished that day and those few seconds of --all is right with world . I wish you that calm in your frustration. ------- Be kind to yourself.------Nails
rez, our "advertising catalog" is about 50% ads, 50% editorial. It's been that way for about 10 years. That's the limit beyond which we won't go. And all of our ads are construction related -- We've turned down those that aren't. Sometimes readers have told us they find the ads as valuable as the editorial. And, there are no ads between articles, no articles split in half to take you into the advertising section.
Check out the ad/editorial ratio of any of our competitors. You'll see we aren't so bad.Andy Engel, Forum moderator
There are only 2 magazines I've found to be consistently worth subscribing to: Wooden Boat and FHB. Both have maintained good standards over the years with relevent advertizing. Both become resources worth hanging onto.
My only real disappointment with FHB was substituting a regular issue with the kitchen and bath issue some time back but ....oh well....
Whoa, Notchman, you're dead wrong about us substituting K&B for a regular issue. There are still six regular issues, just as it's been since 1981. Houses and Kitchens and Baths make it eight issues per year.
And thanks for the good words about FHB. I'm a Wooden Boat fan, too. Great magazine, makes this land-lubber want to build boats.Andy Engel, Forum moderator
This landlubber always wanted to build a schooner but that was unrealistic so I learned timber framing and log construction instead (and built a couple gaff-rigged sailboats and strip canoes on the side). I did get back East in 1989 and did a week off the Maine coast on the Isaac Evans, a 19th century oyster schooner converted to a cruise boat. A terrific deal...lots of excellent food, photo ops with a lot of other tall ships and the opportunity to play old time sailer for a few days and nights. Not terribly expensive either.
Sorry about my ill-informed opinion about K & B's issue. My wife enjoys it and the Houses more than I do. FHB remains my mainstay and I've tried the others.....no contest although JLC is pretty decent.
No problem, Notchman. Thanks for the good words on FHB.
I've been hoping to build a strip canoe for about the last dozen years. Where'd you get the plans?Andy Engel, Forum moderator
My plans were from Ted Moores and Merilyn Mohr's "Canoecraft." I built 2 Chestnut Prospectors. The plan was for 16' but I stretched my mold to 17' which makes for a little roomier boat. Port Orford cedar strips with a couple Black Walnut highlight strips; Pacific yew for the gunnels, seat frames and breast hooks. Used a bird carvers woodburning set to do some Northwest Indian artwork along the shear on one boat and some Southwest Indian interpretations on the second boat with colored charcoal pencils to color some of the geometrics (Epoxy doesn't adhere very well to a lot of paints and stains). Both boats turned out nice; the second was built for one of my building clients and is a real beauty.
More than you wanted to know maybe, but I get started on boats....
There are obvious problems with this site. Blue was a big time right on contributor(except for his take on blocking), he's gone. Joe,you knew, something was wrong here, you've started your own site that echoes the old breaktime, and your site is good, just not very active. Gabe .I've missed whatever you've contributed, short of your long ego, to anything. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, Boss H, I've listened to you squeak plenty, so what's your point? Dang, I'm looking thru here and seeing DIYers giving DIYers advivce...anyway we can compromise on this?...half wits stay out of half the discussions?...this place used to be a tool, damn if I know how to use it now...
Billy boy,
How about you give me the same curtesy that I give you?
I've never used your name to try to make a pointless or even a point so how about you get off your sanctimoneous bs and make whatever pointless or point you want to make and leave my name out of it.
You don't know me, you've never met me, you don't work in the same field as I do, you don't have any of the credentials to be credible enough to insult simply by looking down on me or others.
Gabe
Want to continue all of your fights in the shed? Could be funny, and nothing else is happening in there. This thread is at least the second time I walked away from your nonsense, and if you cheapshot me one more time I'm going to let loose on your ass.
I know I jumped down your throat one time because you were picking on my pal Splintie, and I suspect you have issues with some of the people I pal around with, so what? Ya, I did intend to piss you off, sue me. I remember several occasions I acknowledged a point you made. I also remember I did not agree with you being banned, and was glad you are back, (much to the chagrin of my pals).
You have said at least twice I am a hypocrite, and I would like to hear why, without polluting a general thread. You have made it known that I have nothing to add, and I wonder how you know that. I have zero problem going toe to toe with you, man to man, you have a problem with that? I wouldn't bother if there wasn't an upside, or if I thought we would be one man short.
You say we don't know you, I say you don't know "us". Slap, the glove has been thrown down. Don't hide behind being busy, I invented that. Don't play like you couldn't care less, because you have an obvious hair rubbing your ass the wrong way. I'll start a topic over there that will take you 2 seconds to make me look like a fool, That is 1.3 seconds Canadian time.
Thankyou for proving my point.
Under the new rules of engagement I'm limited to allowing you to make a fool of yourself and you are to be commended for doing a fine job.
Gabe
QT, don't worry about pollutin a general thread. If you move to the tavern, I'll miss the ending...
blue
Gabby, did I touch a nerve?
Don't think so Billy boy but do try to be more mature than quarter whatever.
Gabe
Geez Gabe, crying because BB doesn't respect your useless opinions? You're getting sensitve in your advance age.
For what it's worth, I agree with BB. I don't remember many posts that you made that had actual construction comment. I do remember many, many, many, many ( x about 1000) posts where you attempted to humiliate someone, usually just to get a rise out of it. In fact, you often made me think of middle school word bullies that simply were too immature to participate in meaningful dialogue, so they would simply change the channel to a non-germane personal attack.
There were some concrete topics that you posted in. I'm sure I would have been real interested in reading about the concrete if it were posted by the guys actually doing the installations. I'll bet that would be very interesting to learn from them. Too bad your just one of those white-hat trailer jockeys. I'd really love to learn about some of the things you tried to talk about...but I know better than to listen to a white hat wannabee.
I'm sure you'll bask in this new site because all the diyers will actually think you know something because your a SUPERINTENDENT! ( All tradesmen, please genuflect when you see that word!).
I'll miss your childishness.
blue
Why don't you come and join me on the swingstage tomorrow morning and teach me everything you know? I've got a minute to spare.
Naw...........would be a waste of my time.......besides guys that bs like you would shake too much on the stage and scare the pigeons.
Gabe
So far you've given more farewells than the fat lady at the opera.
Wow, that was very witty Gabe. I don't think I'll be able to match words or wits with you now.
I finally admit, you are my superior in every conceivable way. I'm sure you would out frame me, steal my wife and children and even turm my mom against me. I'm just sorry I'm not there with you so I could kiss your ring.
blue
BB I used to think it was a tool too. I didn't mind sharing info, because I was getting so much back out of it. It was like a constant exchange of real life info.
Has Fine Homebuilding turned into Fine Do It Yourselfing?
Thats okay that diyers are bragging to one another. I've had to argue with them for years out in the remodel jobs (of course they were never wrong, their uncle built a garage once, much better than anything I could do), now they can have it all to themselves.
blue
I am still with Blue that the basic changes of this site were not for the better.
I was one to scan the old folders looking at the topic and the posters name. The old format put more information on the screen to be read or discarded at a glance, similar to how I will go through a magazine or a book. I realize all this same information is still available ( with mouse clicks, dragging the pointer or whatever), it is just not the way I am comfortable.
I have only had a computer for about 3-4 years now, and one of the factors that got me to finally buy was the desire to see what Breaktime was all about. One of the first postings I saw on the old site was a posting titled " Anybody seen Blue? "(or something like it). A bit later Blue came back in with "I'm Back" and I have followed much of his comments since.
I still look in at this site, but not the daily login that I used to do. I am primarily a lurker, only posted occasionaly - so there is no doubt that I won't be missed - but the likes of Blue leaving is a loss.
Terry
Thanks Tle. I remeber posting that "I'm Back" topic. I had just drifted away for a spell and came back with a roar. I actually liked contributing. It was a good outlet. It also helped me learn a new skill...typing.
I still cant spell remember....
blue
Ps BB, blocking is useless. It makes the cabinet hangers job too easy. I've still only put in that one block for the door know handle since we debated that. I just went through a finished house. All the curtains were falling off the walls. The towel hangers were hanging by a thread. The toilet paper holder was on the floor.
Looks good to a boogerer!
Notchman........congradulations. I've been wanting to build one of those for at least twelve years...even once cleared a spot in my shop, but alas I'm still toying around in the old store bought one. There are fast carpenters who care..... there are slow carpenters who care more.....there are half fast carpenters who could care less......
andy.. my brother over on huntingtown rd is building a strip kayak...
his mold is all set up.. maybe you and he should get together.. two off the same mold ....lemme know if you want some more details..Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Andy- Thanks for your reply. It's good to have an editor that will mix with the folks.
You're welcome rez. If you ever stopped in here, you might be surprised to see us -- a bunch of middle-aged carpenters turned editor, but still dressed so we could swing a hammer for a living. Kind of a fun place to work, actually.Andy Engel, Forum moderator
Blue,
View Image
I took a look at your forum, but I didn't feel very welcome at a site where you have to register just to read. What's up with that? I don't have to show ID to get into the library, or the hardware store, or even a bar, since I started getting a little gray.
Uncle Dunc,
View Image
Edited 5/26/2002 7:42:58 PM ET by J Fusco
>> Seemed simple enough ...
Simple, certainly, but what's the point? When you have a choice of including or excluding people, do you always choose exclusion? Do you think people who are reluctant to register just to check it out will never have anything to contribute?
An open door is still an open door and no one is or has been excluded so I'm still missing your point, if you have one. It's always nice to know who you're talking with.
Gabe
My point, if I have one, is obscured if I comb my hair just right.
I have no problem with requiring registration to post on a forum. I registered here, to your evident dismay. But I'm not willing to register at a forum just to read the postings. Call me neurotic, or whatever. I may be the only person in the world who feels this way, but I doubt it. I assume that someone sponsoring an online forum wants people to participate. If a forum sponsor requires registration for read access, he chooses to exclude people like me, however few we may be. Some of those people, if allowed to read the forum without registering, would decide to register and contribute. And some percentage of those contributions would benefit the members of the group. So what advantage does the sponsor gain, by requiring registration to read, that outweighs the disadvantage, however slight, of narrowing the pool of prospective participants?
I'm not saying Joe owes me an explanation of his policy. It's his forum. He can do whatever he likes with it. I'm just curious about why he sees it as a net benefit.
Edited 5/26/2002 9:36:01 PM ET by Uncle Dunc
Uncle Dunc, your not alone. I would never register anywhere, just to lurk. I read first, then if I'm interested, I register.
Only a control freak would require registration just to lurk.
I don't hang with control phreaks.
blue
Yeah sure Joe. Uncle Dunc should "register" so you can plant a few Trojan Cookies onto his hard drive.
I've been battling these virii too long. If any place requires registration to peek in, I don't peek in.
Your so called "open" forum, is only open as long as you control the posters. Personally, I've never stayed long in any moderated forum. Your the moderator at your site. Your registration policy is big brother boo boo #1. I'm sure after I question the sexual activity status of your dog, and others in your family, I'd be silenced.....
I might as well silence myself by not gracing your abode....
blue
Joe, thanks for the welcome but no thanks. I really don't like the Web X forum without the enhancements that Taunton had. It's not really anything personal against you. I'm sure you'd be a good sysop until your evil brain cells won over and you'd unleash a barage of well planned virii onto everyone that unsuspectedly allowed you to plant a trojan by requiring "registration" or something or other....
I really don't have any complaint about you either. You gave me a lot of laffs, especially when you would let your head blow up when anyone was trying to help you....
And I always liked the way you would fail to address a direct question, and instead explode with a personal volatile vulgarity laced diatribe. I got a big laff many times when you'd tell me that I didn't know anything about roofs, even though I just finshished framing one bigger than you've ever dreamed about....
Your graphix were superb, even if they missed the point....or we're generated with faulty or misguided logic....I was never really sure that they were germane, but they did look good!
You might have a great site but it'll be great without me....
blue
Blue , I will miss you as I have missed you. I will stay to try to help make it better. Im hoping you will be back. As I miss the others that broke me in here . I loved to hear ED post as with you and others. I suppose breaktime will have a new beginning , with mostly new people. They will also age to be old timers here. I understand what you had is gone , I was there also .
Im building a new church right now. They dont belong to any group of people . They would be the first to say that . They are all working together trying to build something they want , or the lord wants , maybe both. There has to be a 'we' to make this better. Im not a member of that church, but they are making me want to be. Im wanting to help make break time enjoyable like it used to be.
Nuff Said
Tim Mooney
Thank you for your kind words Tim.
If you truly want to help this forum get as great as it was Tim, put in a tender offer to buy all the Taunton stock, take the company over, toss out the CEO, fire the bean counter that ordered the assasination of the best forum on the web and re-instate the exact old site, but allow swearing...
Don't allow spamming, unless it's me searching for a new network marketing associate. By the way, I'm getting a whole lot better at that game. My goal was to average $500 per month in extra income. I've accomplished that (direct commisions and some minor overides and training bonuses), more than doubled that last month, and anticiapate a steady growth factor over the coming months/years. Even though I've made a ton of mistakes, I'm failing my way to the top. The best part is that I'm creating a true passive income. So far, I've created about (I'm guessing) about $120 per month of true passive income (that'll start in the 13th month). Even if I'm wildly wrong (it could be only $50 or $60....I'm not sure because I don't study the compensation documents. My retention rate of my entire organization will have an effect on that aspect of my compensation.
Oh yeah, the sales training(s) that I've also absorbed have been quite helpful for my carpentry business. I know for a fact, that I've already reaped larger income from completed work, established significantly better rapport and personal and professional relationships with my current builder and their supervising superintendent and mangers. I've coaxed my guys to take their skills and commitment to quality to a higher level. I just completed about $60k worth of work that I might not have gotten without the impetus that my network marketing sales training provided.
I can only wish that I had started down this exact path 25 years ago. I'd have a nice oceanfront place in the Caymans right now.....
Back to my point....What was it?
First, let me finish the secondary point about true passive income: I've worked my buttt off as a rough carpenter/ contractor and never created a penny of passive income that would benefit me when I layed down the tools. In about a 1/2 year, when my skills were as bad as they will ever be, I've been able to put some business on the books, while helping hard working families, that will pay me for many, many years to come. I get payed, and repayed for my efforts of today. Passive income will provide for me, in my old age, and continue to allow my spouse to live a decent life, long after I've left this Mudhole called Earth. At this point, the true passive income will only pay for my wife's weekly masseuse, but I intend to do more and I'll never quit....
Okay, now, I'll really get back to the point.
Tim, I'm not a religous guy. I mentioned to my mom tonite that I'm kinda jealous of her, that she has a religion and church that she likes to attend (she's Roman Catholic). Im atheist and agnostic. I know we'll all eventually be nothing more that Sun gas. Anyways, I don't know what Church your building. Maybe your just doing the allegory thing. I'm fairly confident that this Church, or this BT site, will never come close to matching what it used to be. I'd like to share your optimism, but the facts are, that I'm not going to participate anymore. More power to you, if you want to fight your way through these disjointed threads. I had to work hard tonite, figuring out how to address these 15 posts. The end result is my first posts ending up last, no flow to the conversation, and I was so frustrated that I nearly just bowed out angrily, never to look back. I decided that I would take a breather, and just work though it and finish this thread. This is definitly the last thread that I'll participate in. The only other thread that I was looking at was the stupid basement interior partition squaring. That died a really weird death two weeks ago. I think I posted in one other, but since I can't remember what it was, it obviously can't be too important.
This site just doesn't do anything good for me anymore. I'm sad and angry that Taunton has grabbed the ball and went home!
The game is over.
blue
Since there's 15 replies to my original post, or at least some of you talking to one another, I'll continue my plea. I'm only hoping someone will try to understand what is happening and come to their senses. Unfortunatly, since the Money doesn't want a thriving dynamic site, my words fall on deaf ears.
First, understand that this is my last topic. I'm tired of hearing myself cry.
I used to always open several peoples topics, no matter what the heading. Sonny was one, AJ was another, even if he was bragging about skiing or something. There were other "must read people", maybe five or six total. The other topics I opened were those that I knew something about (framing), or those that I was curious about (basic electrical). In most cases, I could always count on a lively discussion. Another sure thing was the outcome....the facts would always surface....usually quick. I don't see that happening anymore.
For instance, in one of the last threads I participated in (someone was trying to square up interior basement partitions), it took 25 posts over quite a long period to get to the straight facts. The question posed was the work of a novice (only a novice would feel the need to square an interior partition) and quite a few of well meaning posters volunteered quite a lot of usless information. I don't mind useless info being disseminated, as long as it gets challenged. In that thread, I really don't think it would have been challenged if I hadn't butted in. The thread ended upbruptly, with a somewhat lengthy, and quite possibly controversial, technique (mine).
My point....? My point is that the thread just ended....no one challenged the last post, even though no one else remotely offered anything close to my explanation. If I was brilliant (of course I was), no one thanked me. Essentially, no one really cares or cared. And that is my whole point....no one cares or cared.
That never happened in the previous taunton site.
Advice on this site is now second class. Six months ago, second class info was vehemently challenged. Now it is given without fear.
Okay, I'm done.
By the way, what does WYSIWYG mean? Source?
blue
Hey Blue,
WYSIWYG means "What You See Is What You Get". This simply means that whatever you actually see on your screen when you write, is exactly how it will appear when your message gets posted.
And I am with you on the lack of good debatable content. Seems like I learned a lot more whenever we got into some good discussions about things. Made me stop and think, and made me think of things I never would have thought of. Seems like now it is a "take it or leave it" type of sharing of info.
Just a thought...James DuHamel
J & M Home Maintenance Service
"Southeast Texas"
James, you hit the nail on the head. The quality of the discussion used to challenge me. It forced me to carefully think before I spoke (of course I failed miserable many times). I am sure I made significant progress in many areas of my life because of the Breaktime site. I became skilled at typing. I learned to check my temper. I learned countless new construction techniques. I learned to accept you guys down there in the south as intelligent, caring human beings. I learned that Gabe is a moro.....nic....imbecil......
Actually I didn't learn that about Gabe. I just learned that I don't like his senseless attack style and have personally upgraded my "real Life" debating tactics, just so I wouldn't sound/act like him!
Thank YOu Gabjo. You guys have inspired me to greater heights!
I've finished the audio version of the Dale Carnegie classic "How to Win Friends and Influence People". Everyone should be required to read this, under penalty of some control phreal liberal mainiac that likes Big Govenment to dictate everything. I KNOW Gabjo never read or heard this book....
I was quite impressed with the depth and quality of construction conversation here (prior to the forum suicide). I never got that anywhere else in my 30 years in the construction biz, not even in Carpentry apprentice school...
James, we didn't always agree, and sometimes I'd catch you being mean, but sounding nice and sincere....you are quite clever.....but thanks James for helping me to grow.
blue
I think this is the third time you've said your goodbyes and for the third time, goodbye.
Now stop whining and get on with your little life.
WYSIWYG
Gabe
I'm sure you'll be glad when i depart Gab. You'll happily be dishing out your white hat advice knowing that the guys that are actually out there doing the work won't be here telling it like it really is.
Maybe I'll go looking for a forum of superintendents and I can go in there and pretend that I know something about their world. It seems to work for you...
blue
Dearly departed,
It is with great sadness that I must inform you that Blue has departed once again and will probably keep on departing for ever and ever.
Blue hates anyone who has taken the time to learn their craft and has progressed in life while he stagnates in blissful ignorance.
This site still has personality Blue, it's you that's too full of yourself to see it.
Come play with us at the "Crossing" or are you toooooooooo much a whimp? Grrrrrr Grrrrrr woof woof....
Gabe
and sometimes I'd catch you being mean, but sounding nice and sincere....you are quite clever.....
Not clever at all. I was raised to voice my opinion, but do it politely. Sometimes I would tell people where they could stick it, but try to be nice about it. Sometimes, I just told 'em where to stick it period. Lots of times I just held my tongue and tried to be nice and friendly. If that seemed like I was being mean, and trying to hide it behind nicety, well, that's your opinion. Opinions are neither right or wrong. They are opinions.
Many times I pulled posts that I thought weren't useful, and were indeed quite rude and mean. I did this for the good of the site and the forums. I could have easily dragged on with some back and forth bickering, but it seemed pointless, and useless. Pulling the posts and apologizing was a way of smoothing out the rough waters, and getting on with the business of sharing GOOD information and ideas.
I'm sorry if you (or anyone else) saw me as trying to be "clever" and mean spirited about anything. Sometimes I would have a bad day, and get pissed at someone for something or other. I would voice my frustration, but always went back and aologized for my rudeness and bad behavior. If you saw it as anything other than what it really was, all I can say is you were mistaken.
Hope to see ya around.James DuHamel
J & M Home Maintenance Service
"Southeast Texas"
"Opinions are neither right or wrong. They are opinions. "
James, James, James. I thought I'd convinced you by now that my opinions are always right. I guess I'll have to shout a little louder {G}
I thought I'd convinced you by now that my opinions are always right.
Bob, Bob, Bob... your opinions are always LEFT. How many times I gotta tell ya... Must be that this site has ya all turned around, and ya think your opinions are now RIGHT... (heh heh)James DuHamel
J & M Home Maintenance Service
"Southeast Texas"
LOL, this may be the most protracted goodbye since Rick dumped Ilse on the runway at Casablanca! It has even spawned side-sniping and a publication marketing discussion! What's next, an infomercial for some Amway-esque "network marketing" scheme? Whoops, too late...
I have been a lurker (mostly) on the boards here for, I imagine, 4 years. It has always been an invaluable source of information for someone like me, who has been doing this on and off for 11 years and knows just enough to say "Yeah, I should be able to do that..." and get myself into trouble. There were always a lot of knowledgable people on this board, and guess what...there still are!
Here in NYC, I work for designers who are always trying to do "something that has never been seen before". Usually, you find out right away why their idea holds such a distinction. When I have posted a few of these "I don't suppose anyone has ever had to...." questions on both the old AND new boards, I have been pleasantly stunned at the depth of knowledge present in a large community of individual experience. That immense human library, and the ability to access it, is what makes Forums on any topic, IMHO, the single most useful offshoot of the Internet. That library is still open on these boards, but seems to be invisible to a few long-time posters, blinded by their hatred of the new format.
I have read these boards a lot in the past few years and I would venture to say the boards are MORE, not less, informative under the new format. All forums fall somewhere on a continuom between community-driven and information-driven. When I first started coming to the boards here, there was a lot of great information, of course, but about half of any given topic's posts would be Where-ya-been's, How's-the-wife's and How's-the-fishin's between a small but vocal group of six or so guys that made this place their home. Yes, it did give this site some character and a voice, which is important, but those posts were, by their nature, uninformative. As I look around the boards now, I see much more focused discussions, much more pure information. (Except, of course, in the "New Site SUXX" topics, which still boast all you need for personal discussion besides perhaps knitting needles and delicate cups of tea.)
Is more information, less character, a good thing? That is, very rightly, personal and arguable, based on what you came here for. But to rail on (and on, and on...) about change in a medium that did not even EXIST on a mass scale 10 years ago seems small-minded.
Is there bad information on the site? Sure, but I got some terrible advice through the old format, too. I do miss being able to track a person's last few posts in other topics, which helped you get an idea about their general knowledge and bs factor, but it is the fact that bad answers get drowned out by good that gave the site its credibility then, and the same is true in the new format.
As to your experience in the topic about squaring partition walls, I believe it is a perfect example of how your attitude has colored your vision of this site. I was one of the "well meaning posters" who "volunteered quite a lot of useless information." I invite you to reread that thread. I think that you will find that most of us were simply trying to figure out what he was trying to do. It seemed hard to fathom anyone actually trying to do what he said he was trying to do. But that is besides the point, and if I, and the other guys who posted, are thickheaded, so be it, but here is what you posted:
"I've kinda been wondering when someone was going to tell you Danz, that you don't need to square the partions up on the floor. If there were any framers in here, they would have told you instantly, instead of offering sixteen different useless bits of advice.
I think this topic pretty much sums up the new site....
blue"
Now, that post seems to imply that you had been stopping by the topic now and then to see what was up. I said it then and I'll say it now, I thnk that is just unconscionably ungenerous. If you know a better way, tell the poor guy! If for no other reason than to make sure he does it safely. But I guess it was more important to have this example to set up this quote from one of your final(?) posts in this thread:
"My point....? My point is that the thread just ended....no one challenged the last post, even though no one else remotely offered anything close to my explanation. If I was brilliant (of course I was), no one thanked me. Essentially, no one really cares or cared. And that is my whole point....no one cares or cared."
Again, read the thread without the "Format Hate" goggles on. On May 15 the orignal poster says thanks and that he is going to get started. The work of the thread was done, he had his information and moved on to finish his project. End of thread. Just because it took you until the next day, May 16, to descend from Olympus doesn't mean "The thread ended upbruptly". It was already over.
Perhaps your stay on these pages is over. I doubt it. But maybe it is a good time to take a break. This forum will never be any better than those who participate in it. You know what Thumper's Mom said, "If you can't say smoething nice..."
You miss character and community, but those things will be here eventually, a creation of those with the generosity of spirit to add their experience, style and support. I do think the format changed has enboldened some of the lurkers out there. There is no substitute for experience, but I cannot tell you how nice it is to see the posts of other guys in my shoes, a decade or so along, starting out on their own, trying to make a go of it. I see many more posts by and relevant for this group now than I did three years ago. Some of these new posters will be idiots and some will be invaluable, in just about the exact proportions the old posters fit those categories. If all the old-timers take off, this place will suffer greatly. But new old-timers will retire, their kids'll buy 'em Dell notebooks and they'll find this place.
The community will always be poorer for the lack of an individual, but not as poor as the individual without a community.
Best of luck to you.
***Now, SURELY someone is starting a "Return of the Devil" pool. Is "Ten Days" taken?**
DW
Edited 5/29/2002 11:29:31 AM ET by D_Wood_NY
Edited 5/29/2002 11:32:31 AM ET by D_Wood_NY
Priceless, DW.
###
I liken the change to when I was a kid and the new hs was built. Lots of complaints about loss of character and history and such. Well, there were a few personalities that seemed to dominate the old hallowed halls, and some of them graduated and some retired. And it took a while for the new school to develop its own characters and style and memories, but it happened. And it's likely to happen here.
As to quality of advice...evaluating that takes time. With the prior frequent posters, one learned about them from seeing a consistency in posts over months and years. Anyone new needs those months and years of posting to establish a track record of useful or bs information. It'll happen. I'm starting to see new names whose comments consistently make sense, and whose advice I'll trust (as much as I trust _anything_ on the net). Not yet the same as all the ol' familiar faces, but one day they'll be the ol' familiar faces. Probably all this site needs to complete the turnover to the "new" guard is an election year! Then we'll find out who votes like I do and who else is just bs-ing. Ha ha ha.
Cloud, I'm sure this site will survive. I'l also bet that it will never be better. Email me in a year and tell me how it shakes out.
blue
> ***Now, SURELY someone is starting a "Return of the Devil" pool. Is "Ten Days" taken?** DW
Does that include weekends? If so, I'll take four -- Saturday 6-1. How many milk bones?
Blue, I think you have a level of knowledge and experience that deserves a wider and more permanent forum than this or the old Breaktime. How about starting with some articles for FHB, and if that works out OK, move on to a book.
-- J.S.
John, I could easily write a book on framing, but it would be filled with fluff. A simple boogerin thread will usually do it......
Thanks for the vote of conficence.
blue
DY........(handshake) glad to meet you.
Human nature beings at it is...the need to belong, to be the special group/good old boy/ the click...whatever you want to call it has always been with us. I think it was stronger here cause a lot of these guys actually knew and met each other at their fests. That's cool, and a lot of them are still together on the other thread, but here the bottom line should always be information. That's what it was created for, Taunton was wise in changing things and causing the track to turn a bit....it is their turf.
A little BS makes it homey, but too much creates an 'us and them' environment..and that's what it was. Who cares if the software changed (I did for a while till I quit bitchin and learned it) I like seeing new names and personalities on the board. Move out Blue....... and Red, Green and Yellow will take your place. There are fast carpenters who care..... there are slow carpenters who care more.....there are half fast carpenters who could care less......
JJ, I never fested anywhere, so you can't lump me into that comment.
I'm not willing to learn how to do a site. If it isn't user friendly right from the git go, you probably aren't going to attract many of the tradespeople that I'd like to learn from. Instead of tradespeople, I'd be learning from computer nerds, geeks and wannabees.
I'm somewhat past that stage in my career development. Dont take it personal, I don't watch Bob Vila, the new yankee, the home improvers etc. I would watch serious tradespeople doing serious stuff. We cant get that stuff on tv. We used to get it here.
Glad your satisfied with the change...
blue
If it isn't user friendly right from the git go, you probably aren't going to attract many of the tradespeople that I'd like to learn from
Hope you're wrong Blue (I'm purposely trying to put a good spin on this), but like you I don't need to learn much any more cause I'm changing course. Built a semi post and beamer last winter practically by myself and damned near died. It was a long thirty year run, but in the end all those naggy little pains and pulls became REALLY BIG pains and pulls. Know what I mean?
Anyway, I hear you............but hey, be careful how you talk about my buddy Bob Villa. I'm still trying to figure out how he turned his no knowledge/no charissma self into a TV personality.There are fast carpenters who care..... there are slow carpenters who care more.....there are half fast carpenters who could care less......
JJ, Vila used the single most important skill known to the modern age capitalist.....salesmanship!
Either get with it, or die wishing you had some...drop me a line, I'll send you to a site that'll deliver the goods.
blue
D wood,
Sorry for starting a thread that almost approaches what used to be a regular occurence: lots of side discussions eminating from a central topic. The fact that you commented on the length indicates that a long thread is now a rarity, meaning that the threads die premature deaths, due to lack of participation.
This isnt a goodbye thread, its simply the last one I'm participating in.
Your opinion that this site is better, and has more pertinent information is simply that....your opinion. My opinion is 180 degrees opposite. Your probably a Republicrat, so that may explain things.
I'd like to comment on your comment:
"...Is more information, less character, a good thing? That is, very rightly, personal and arguable, based on what you came here for. But to rail on (and on, and on...) about change in a medium that did not even EXIST on a mass scale 10 years ago seems small-minded. ..."
Why would you call me voicing my opinion, in a thread small minded? Isn't reading my comments, then whining about me voicing my opinion small minded squared then? Should I not discuss this topic, simply because you are tired of reading about it? Why don't you use that new special ignore button, thus guaranteeing that the quality of your reading will be superior to those that drop in on this thread.
I think you take small minded to a new level. Thanks for the petty sparring though. Your no Gabjo. You've got a long way to go if your trying to ruffle my feathers...
Now, back to serious construction issues....
Lets' discuss the squaring the interior partitions thread. I watched that thread for a few days in disbelief that no one was going to offer him any decent advice. In fact, I held off posting until the guy decided that he was satisfied with the advice given. You have correctly identified my selfish behavior, and you hit the nail on the head. I did indeed withhold the most basic common sense advice, simply to see if any were forthcoming.
It wasn't coming. I'll stand by my comments and re-utter them. "That advice was useless!" That is one small topic that proves my point. You claim that this site is better, yet that thread shouts otherwise.
Your next worry is that this guy has moved on, and therefore the topic did not need further discussion. That may be typical now, in this site, but it didn't matter a hoot in the other thread. I watched many a thread take off into the stratosphere, long after the original poster dropped out. The point is that there aren't many actual tradepeople in here anymore.
Paron me if I seem to be rambling, but I'm just replying to your post, paragraph by paragraph.
Regarding Thumper's MOM. If she's hot, I'd like to do her. I don't care for her philosophy though.
I don't miss character and community. I miss meaningful content. Remeber, I didn' post a thing in the Woodshed in it's first year of existence. I debated the hell out of the ballot thing, then dropped out again. I concentrated on techniques, busiiness and general topics. I never really got caught up in the social thing. I always read certain peoples posts because they were good contributors in a variety of subjects. I skipped over many topics and ignored more than a few posters. That's just me. I'm simply interested in construction.
You can start all the pools you want. All I know is that when I come in here, I feel angry. I'm 49 years old and have learned to avoid things that anger or upset me. If this format stays the way it is, I have no use for it.
I'm glad you like it. Have fun with it.
blue
Ps, don't struggle too hard the next time your squaring those inteior partitions that are wedged too tight on wavy unlevel concrete....smiley face (I don't know how to make em, so I just say em).
Sorry to see you go, blue. I enjoyed your wit and perspective on the trade.
Before you go, there's something I'd like to clear up. I have often said the profession of carpentry has been damaged, maybe changed irrevokably, by it's division into smaller and smaller sub trades. Like "cabinet makers", "stairbuilders", "roofers", "drywallers", "tapers", "flat workers", etc. To the point that now there are such professions as "siders" and "vinal installers".
I realize all this is profit driven, and I guess, inevitable. But I don't think it's good. All these sub skill sets used to be included under the title "carpenter". So, while any "carpenter" can frame, or roof, or hang sheetrock, or build cabinets, or any of the other tasks required to build a home, those who choose to make their living in one of the sub sets, like framing, are just that - "framers". Not "carpenters".
"Framers" are unquestionably more familliar with that portion of the trade they do the most, framing. That doesn't make them any less, or more, just different - the same way a heart surgeon isn't a "doctor". She's a specialist, with a different skill set than a "doctor".
Anyway, good luck, I've had a lot of fun discussing wall jacks, pick ups, gloves, basakwards circular saws, back hoe techniques, felt paper, and many other topics through the years. And, um,if you're really not coming back, would you mind giving back some of the milk bones you've won off me over the years? Between you and Dan Morrison, I'm fresh out.
Dang, Blue, you're one of the few here I wouldn't mind trimmin' behind, and I know the lunch time discussions would be more than lively...this place has certainly gotten fancier than any place I'm usually allowed into, but I keep peeking back in just hoping it gets back to nuts and bolts and them that makes a living offen 'em... and it is pretty scary the level of knowledge and experience behind a lot the new advisors here...and the new search function is nothin' but special...
Good luck, I learned some stuff from ya, bb
Someday I want to try Blue's building a circular stairway wall with a stapler trick. Joe H
What Blodgett said. x2
Joe, that techinque is slicker n' snot. One of the best results is that immediately upon standing the stapled parts, the entire unit is perfectly plumb and very rigid and stable. All you need is one minor brace on the tall end and your flying!
Make sure you staple the inside of the radius. I stapled the out side once and it didn't want to bend to easy. If I remember correctly, I had to cut a number of staples to loosen the assembly up.
I actually haven't had to build any circular stairs since I did that post (I think). I know I haven't done any since I've owned my digital camera. I would've taken a few pics just and shared them in the old site.
If you ever build a set, carefully measure your stock. We typically use 2x8's. Most 2x8 around here are 7.25", but if you have a load that is 7.375", that extra 1/8th will add up to a couple of inches. If you haven't calculated for it, your upper header will be in the wrong place, or the bottom riser will get pushed forward. Sometimes (especially smaller homes) that minor miscalcution can be significant.
Good luck Joe. Thanks for your appreciation.
blue
BB, you'd learn a lot if you trimmed behind me. You'd learn how to booger your trim to fit the boogerin' that I left behind!
I'm glad that I could share a little of how we do things around here. I hope you've been able to put a little more in your pocket.
Thanks for your contributions. All of the things I learned in here add up.
Too bad I won't be using them too much longer...
blue
Sorry Jim, I lost all my milkbones to Stan on that stupid "balance the nails" trick.
The question of specialization isn't worth worrying about. In years past a "carpenter" would do a lot of things. They'd build on the house from start to finish. That was great, when there wasn't much demand.
Today, those guys are still there. They are still doing their thing. Anytime anyone wants to join that club, the opportunity is still there.
Almost all carpentry skills start with the same basics. As each of us develope, we gravitate to the one that we like, or the one that we can earn the most in. Our financial needs often dictate our choices.
I don't fret about it. I know I'm a carpenter, even though I know I haven't done everything that some carpenters have done. I'm confident that I could accomplish a much wider variety of tasks that fall into the carpenter category, than I do now, but I simply don't want to do them. Hot roofs are carpenter jobs, but I don't have any inclination to learn that aspect of the trade, simply so I can claim to be a bona-fide, know-it-all carpenter.
If that ever happened (I could claim to be a know-it-all, and back it up with facts) I'd change my name. I'm not really sure what I'd change it to, but I'd put Gabe right up there as my top choice...it just sounds like a name for a know-it-all type....
Summing up your discussion Jim is this; no one truly ever becomes a "carpenter" anymore using your subset criteria. That's okay though because the field is too large. As soon as you thought you'd done it all, someone would come by and want to see your experience as an underwater pier and dock welder (yes, Jim, carpenters that do underwater welding are subsets of the Carpenters union here). Labeling is always difficult and quite often meaningless.
Thanks for the discussions over the few years I've been here.
blue
If you say so.....
Gabe
You have an opportunity to vent in the right place, if you don't what am I supposed to think about you?
The best I could come up with, at this point, is you talk tough on a telephone.
Folks, this thread is getting too personal. I'm closing it.
good job andy