Anyone have any experience with this stuff called Warmboard?
It’s a thicker subfloor with a grooved, thin aluminum top for 1/2″ PEX tubing that eliminates the staple up routine or gypcrete for radiant floor systems.
Anyone have any experience with this stuff called Warmboard?
It’s a thicker subfloor with a grooved, thin aluminum top for 1/2″ PEX tubing that eliminates the staple up routine or gypcrete for radiant floor systems.
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Replies
If you do an advanced search on Warmboard in the Energy folder from the beginning of time, you'll find several fairly recent good discussions on it. One of the participants was a rep from that company.
I've used warmboard. It performs well, but is not real user friendly. It must run perpendicular to the floor joists, like plywood, but you have to block under the grooves in the sheets with the loops at the ends. You will probably have to rout some additional loops here and there too. Basically, this stuff is not structural where it is grooved, so any grooves that don't run perpendicular to the joists need blocking underneath, blocking that the plumber, electrician and HVAC people can't knock out.
You also have to be careful in moving the stuff around too, It doesn't take too much to break a sheet where it is grooved.
Steve
I'm pretty much in agreement with Steve.
In theory, it's a great product. In the real world, it does have some limitations.
I'd like to use it more often...but I can't.
Steve and Mongo,
Thanks for the help. Aside from the installation/structural issues you guys raised, I didn't care for the ~$5/sq ft material cost either.
One of my main concerns is "heat-striping." For a new wood floor radiant system, what system or systems have you guys installed that have performed well without "heat-striping?" Concrete topping is not an option.
fwiw, we are in process of installing it in new addition and over old flooring. There are two products - 1 1/8" structural (per other comments) or 7/8" 2x4 sheet that install over existing subfloor. We have installed the 1 1/8 4x8 on 3/8" sleepers over concrete slab, with 3/8" rigid insulation in between. We're not complete and haven't run it through a winter yet, but preliminary testing with the loops that are down seems pretty good. We've used Kitec tubing which is *very* user friendly. Since we are doing the work ourselves, the price premium is more than offset by ease of installation (as compared to underfloor nail-up or light weight slab). I am also told that striping is minimal, since the aluminum sheet provides greater thermal dispersion... we'll see. Talk to me next winter ;-)
I've never had a problem with heat striping in any installation.
Heat striping will occur as a result of a poorly designed system...and possibly. I suppose, from a properly installed system that, for some reason, was poorly installed. Striping generally occurs from tubing too far apart, water run at too high a temp, or tubing too close to the surface of the flooring with poor lateral heat transfer.
I've done RFH in virtually every manner possible, except for the "stapling the tubing to the joists" scenario. (I've done staple-up, to the bottom of the subfloor, but not stapling to the sides of the joists.) No problems to date.
Two years ago I was asked to diagnose a repair someone else's work on a house that was striping. Due to completed construction, the easiest fix was to add additional insulation between the joists (first floor, open from the basement). Took out the FG batts, friction-fit sheets of foil-faced polyiso, then replaced the FG batts. This "forced" more of the heat up into the flooring/living space and improved the so-called lateral heat transfer. The thermal setup was tweaked, and an outdoor reset was added. No reason the original installer couldn't have done those fixes to make it right.
As Jim wrote, a product with the embedded Al will virtually eliminate noticeable striping due to the thermal characteristics of the product. Proper design and execution will do the same.
Mongo,
With your staple-up to the subfloor systems, did you use the aluminum plates?
Only had to use the plates one time, on one exterior wall. If I recall, the plates were run from the wall to about 6' into the room. The wall was almost all floor-to-ceiling glass, and the plates were required for the extra BTUs.
If the tubing can support the heat load without the plates, I prefer to omit them.
I'm in coastal CT, where the winters aren't too outrageous.
If doing radiant walls, then the plates would always be used.
Jim and Mongo,
Thanks for all your advice.
Now that I''m better informed, I'l have to do the hard part and make a decision.
Lek
Jim,
I'm in the Albany, NY area and was wondering if the $5/sq ft was about what you paid in your area for the 4x8 structural stuff?
I'm in Amherst,MA. $5 is a bit high, although I know there was supposed to be a price rise (foolish, since they would sell so much more if they dropped the price a bit). Try contacting Joe Ochenkowski at American Radiant Technologies in Northford,CT. 203-484-2888. They sell lots of Warmboard and other radiant products and have been very good to deal with (hope giving a name doesn't violate any rules of this message board)
BTW: I should have added in my original note that the only problem with Warmboard is how heavy it is -- 4x8 sheet is about 100 pounds. You really need to plan where to put the stuff before it's installed so you don't have to move it much!