Which PEX system/tools do you use? (drug addicts stole my copper)
I do residential plumbing work in a high crime area. In the past several months 2 houses I worked on were broken into and all of the copper pipe was stolen. Also, lots of damage was done to the kitchen and bathroom walls to get to the copper.
I’ve never worked with PEX before – I’ve always soldered copper – but now I need to switch to PEX for some neighborhoods. There seem to be quite a few different PEX systems out there: Uponor ProPEX Expander System, PEX Clamp system, PEX Crimp system, Viega PEX Press System etc. I’ve searched the forum but all the info I found was from several years ago.
What are you guys using? Should I pick 1 system and stick with it? Thanks in advance. Dan
Replies
I went with the AquaPEx and Wirsbo ProPEX Expander Tool. The reason that I like the expander method is that it is "fool proof", you don't need to worry about over or under crimping a fitting (no crimp guage needed) - you can't under or over expand it. The drawback is that the expander tool costs $$.
The other reason I like the expander type PEX is that you can do the "expansion" of the pipe/ring out in the open area where you have some room to work. With the crimp style pipe, the pipe needs to be assembled on the fitting before you can crimp it - sometimes its hard to fit a crimp tool in there. With the ProPEX style, you expand the pipe/ring first then you have about 10 seconds to stick the pipe onto the fitting before it tightens up.
Wrong Approach?
It sounds like you intend to simply repeat, in PEX, what you've been doing in copper. IMO, that's a bad idea.
Traditional plumbing starts with a single large line, and has many connections and a bewildering array of fittings. Sure, you can do the same with PEX, but I think there's a better way.
In a word: Manifolds.
PEX makes it easy to run a small diameter, dedicated line to each appliance- with very few fittings between the manifold and the appliance. With so few fittings, I'd skip the specialty stuff and stick to the simpler "Shark-Bite" fittings.
bet you cant plumb 1-2 houses before you havent spent more on shark bites than milwakees expander cost.
second vote
on the propex/uponor/wirsbo expander. i have had a milwakee expander for 2-3 years and its probablly that one tool i am so greatful i bought every time it comes out of the case.
Irrellevant "Factoid"
We're tradesmen, not gamblers. Place bets elsewhere.
Cheap? Cheapest of all is to .... do nothing. Did you factor reliability and labor costs in your estimate? Not to mention the costs associated with keeping an inventory of proprietary fittings, transition pieces, etc.
Heck, I had fools criticise my replacing the failing shingles on my roof, because a proper roofing job cost far more than a blue tarp and some tape. Likewise, there were folks critical of my purchasing a new car, rather than perusing the want-ads.
Most importantly, the critic has failed to address my point about the differenc in piping METHODS alloewd by the use of PEX.
the post doesnt make much sense but Im assuming you are responding to me???
most on here are tradesmen, and like all tradesmen there are "specialty" tools that are essential to the trade. I cant speak for your area, but guarantee you if the plimbing inspector walked in to my current project to inspect the rough in and sees nothing but shark bites he is going to be very concerned. not only about the choice of material but also about the experience of the plumber used to plumb the house.
manifolds are great, effective and very often used when plumbing with pex. how do you connect your pex to the manifolds without these "specialty" tools?
oh wait you use shark bite manifolds too? thank god your not doind plumbing work in these parts.
'not gamblers'...shark-bite'...
Used in same context, ya gotta be kidding LOL< ROFLMAO....
Get real reno (appropriate name?)
Your customers wont be too happy with you that you gambled that the house would have flipped 2 or 3 times since you screwed the HO with shrk-bites and never get called to account ... about the time for the 0-rings to harden and start to fail !
Talk about bad advice.
For own stuff, use copper crimp rings on PEX with brass or SS fittings, NO crimps inside walls or other non-accessible places, all external just to be sure there is no 'gambling'.
Reality vs. Imaginary fears
Here's the straight dope ...
Either the "shark bite" works, or it doesn't. You know right away, and the process is quite forgiving.
The various crimps and expanders, OTOH ...
First, there's no forgiveness. You can't take them apart and try over. Get a bad crimp and you've lost a fitting as well.
And ... leaks there are. With each 're-do,' that line gets shorter and shorter. The challenge in getting a good crimp the first time, every time, is showcased in every "consumer reports" type evaluation. Sure, one can adopt a particular brand - usually whatever the local supply house happens to carry- but you're sacrificing something. Nothing is free.
I note that my points about labor time, inventory, etc. have not been challenged. I also note all manner of personal attacks. Guess you know when you've lost.
FWIW .... contrary to some irresponsible speculations ... I hold professional trade licenses. I have never 'flipped' a house- or anything else. There are paying customers, and there is me.
Personal circumstances matter. Were I running a plumbing service truck, I'd probably use some form of crimp fitting. Yet, were i in property maintenance or doing my own home, the various "shark-bite' fittings would get the nod.
A lot of the 'economy' of crimp fittings disappears when you re-plumb and use a manifold. At that point, you can eliminate virtually every fitting between the manifold and the appliance .... no more tees, ells, reducers, etc. That's the best economy- not having any fitting at all.
Plus, the Shark-bite fittings make it a cinch to change over from PEX to pipe ... say, for appliance stub-outs. No transition fitting needed- the fitting works on both PEX and copper.
All things considered, the tieif probably did the OP a favor.
I have found I can easily take off the SS crimp ring. I use diagonal cutters to pull up the edge then the ring just unwraps.
It take a little work to get the PEX off the barbed fitting but I have been able to do than when I needed to re-sweat an adapter.
The home I moved into in 2011 was re-done in PEX probably because of pi hole leaks due to minerals.
I had not used PEX in the past but choose to go with the SS ring crimp as it was available at the big box stores.
Since I moved in I have plumbed a new laundry, bath, shower, heat and zoned a indirect DHW. I have not had a single problem using PEX or the crimp rings. The only thing I did was find a better place to by rings in bulk to lower my cost.
PEX is now part of my tool box.
Thank you all for your input. I really appreciate it. This is all new to me.
low ph
Make sure your water is not corrosive towards copper / brass / metal alloys before transitioning completely to pex. Low ph water will look to corrode the first metal it comes in contact with, and, if you unkowingly deliver fully potent water via pex, it will attack faucets, fittings, and fixtures throughout the house, including behind / beneath floors, walls, and ceilings..............we use the Uponor ( pronounced " hooponor " without the h ) brand of pex.
+1 for the Milwaukee expander
Hada manual spreader, sold it when the Milwaukee came out. Love that thing.
BUT and it is THE big butt, is what do your local suppliers stock? I moved from Southern Cal to Utah. No Wirsbo at any supplier until Ferguson opened a store.
Sharkbites are for DIY weekend repairs, and they are expensive.
Joe H
not just DIYrs
JoeH wrote:
Sharkbites are for DIY weekend repairs, and they are expensive.
Joe H
[/quote
They're also handy for professional residential remodeling demolition work. While expensive, we keep 1/2" and 3/4" shark bite end caps handy to temporarily cap off lines during extensive kitchen and bath demo. This saves time and prevents having to have our plumbing sub out prior torough-in.
I'm not a plumber by trade, but have to do plumbing in kitchen renos and of course, my own house. I love PEX. SO much faster and more robust in any replumb situation. I used the hand expander, (Wirsbo Upenor) and it works fine, albeit a tad slower. No torches, no charring wood, no leak if you can't get to a fitting adequately. (Of course, I lack full time soldering skills, but, still, it's a better system)
ANd as pointed out, the architecture of the system allows logical layouts, and isolation options.
Also, sharkbytes have their place....old brass pipes that froze and cracked can be joined with sharkbytes, I won't install one where I can't get to it in the future, but I've put them in the open ceiling of my basement and behind a hung ceiling of an apartment. We'll see how they do.