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Widening a carriage door

SoftballJunky's picture

Widening a carriage door (post #216582)

I have two antique carriage doors that i purchased from a home in Philadelphia.  They are 100 years old.  Once I put the doors in the rough opening i found that they are too narrow.  I need to disassemble the doors and make the sides wider. The doors have 8 pains of glass in two rows per door.  I have searched high and low to find out how to take the sides off, make new ones and then reassemble the doors. But to no avail.  Please help.  

Thanks

CoachJ

That's not near enough info (post #216582, reply #1 of 21)

That's not near enough info for an informed advisory but my first thought would be to add width to the outside rather than disassemble.  

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widening the Carriage doors (post #216582, reply #2 of 21)

I would be glad to elaborate as much info as you wish tell me what you need

picture of a pair similar to mine (post #216582, reply #4 of 21)

Here is a picture of one that is similar to mine.  Instead of verticle stiles in the middle, It has bead board.  I am also concerned that adding material to the sides wont be strong enough.  The doors are 3 foot wide and I need to add 3 inhes to each side of the each door to make each do or 4 ft wide.

Yeah, if you only need a few (post #216582, reply #3 of 21)

Yeah, if you only need a few inches I'd be inclined to just add width on the outside edges, by simply gluing/screwing strips to the outside.

(Hint: You need to tell us how big the doors are, how much width you need to add, and some details about how the doors are put together.)


Of all the preposterous assumptions of humanity over humanity, nothing exceeds most of the criticisms made on the habits of the poor by the well-housed, well-warmed, and well-fed.  --Herman Melville

Additonal Info (post #216582, reply #5 of 21)

The doors are mortise and tennon on all three horizontal styles.  the exsting doors are 3 foot and I need them to be 3 ft 6 inches each for a completed set of 8 feet

Additonal Info (post #216582, reply #6 of 21)

The doors are mortise and tennon on all three horizontal styles.  the exsting doors are 3 foot and I need them to be 3 ft 6 inches each for a completed set of 8 feet

You can't (post #216582, reply #7 of 21)

You can't follow your plan of disassembly and widen without a ton of work.  All the rails need to be replaced with new and tenons cut.  All the panels will need replacing. All that you'd be able to reuse is the stiles, the vertical pieces of the doors, the rest would be trash.  

 

Make your opening narrower by adding on to the side jambs and maybe adding a parting molding where the 2 doors meet in the center.  

You cant? (post #216582, reply #8 of 21)

Ouch.  Unfortunately narrowing the opening is nott an option as I need the size to get my equipment in and out.  However, I do appreciate your bluntness.  I am  however determined to figure this out lol.  

Soft (post #216582, reply #9 of 21)

3-6 +3-6 = 7ft.

is your opening 8ft?

and you’ve mentioned adding 3” to each door that is 3’ ..............

one of us is confused.  I know I am.

 

 

 

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3 inches on each side of each (post #216582, reply #10 of 21)

Never mind!


Of all the preposterous assumptions of humanity over humanity, nothing exceeds most of the criticisms made on the habits of the poor by the well-housed, well-warmed, and well-fed.  --Herman Melville

Measurements (post #216582, reply #11 of 21)

The opening is 8ft total.  I am planing on adding 3 inches to the left side and right side of each door. So each door will have an additional 6 inches added to them.  I Hope that helps. 

What Calvin is talking about (post #216582, reply #12 of 21)

What Calvin is talking about is this:

The doors are mortise and tennon on all three horizontal styles.  the exsting doors are 3 foot and I need them to be 3 ft 6 inches each for a completed set of 8 feet

3 feet 6 plus 3 feet 6 is seven feet, not 8.
 


Of all the preposterous assumptions of humanity over humanity, nothing exceeds most of the criticisms made on the habits of the poor by the well-housed, well-warmed, and well-fed.  --Herman Melville

If I were you. (post #216582, reply #13 of 21)

If you don't have to get your stuff in and out through an 8' opening all the time, I'd build a 2' wide panel to match the doors and mount it in the middle so that the doors worked independently. I'd make the panel removable so that you could have a full 8' wide opening when you need it. 

 

Mike

change course (post #216582, reply #14 of 21)

Why not just add to the middle? make it look like a column.

I'd think you'd need more than the 3 hinges per leaf as in the photo you posted.  

change course 2 (post #216582, reply #15 of 21)

Unfortunately there are 2 rows for 3 panes of glass that will not permit me to add a piece to the middle.  It was an interesting thought.  This is why I am kinda stuck on how to add the material to the sides of the doors

Please tell us again how much (post #216582, reply #16 of 21)

Please tell us again how much you need to add.  Your numbers don't add up!


Of all the preposterous assumptions of humanity over humanity, nothing exceeds most of the criticisms made on the habits of the poor by the well-housed, well-warmed, and well-fed.  --Herman Melville

dimensions (post #216582, reply #17 of 21)

Sorry my bad.. too much holiday cheer.  the doors are 3 ft 6 each.  i need to add 6 inches of wood to both doors to give me two 4 ft doors to complete the 8 foot opening

Adding 3 inches to each side (post #216582, reply #18 of 21)

Adding 3 inches to each side of each door is reasonably doable.

The ugly way to do it would be to simply attach extensions with "mending plates".  You'd probably need to use them on both faces on the hinge side, to prevent flex.

More involved is splicing a wider edge onto the existing lumber.  First you'd want to get a clean cut on the existing edge -- taking off 1/4" to 1/2", depending on how much it's dinged up.

Then you can splice with dowels or biscuits, or you can just use long deck screws (which would not be a bad idea even with the dowels/biscuits.  And, of course, some good exterior glue.

A little more complicated is to dado the edge to give it a lip, and put a similar dado on the added piece.  This will produce a more secure glue joint (though probably some screws should be used as well).

The new piece of wood should be a well-cured piece of the same species as the doors.


Of all the preposterous assumptions of humanity over humanity, nothing exceeds most of the criticisms made on the habits of the poor by the well-housed, well-warmed, and well-fed.  --Herman Melville

I'll add that you could (post #216582, reply #19 of 21)

I'll add that you could probably factor the use of old-fashioned strap hinges into this (even if fake) to add some extra rigidity and visually tie things together.


Of all the preposterous assumptions of humanity over humanity, nothing exceeds most of the criticisms made on the habits of the poor by the well-housed, well-warmed, and well-fed.  --Herman Melville

Given enough time and money (post #216582, reply #20 of 21)

Given enough time and money anyone can do anything.  Your doors are mortise and tenon construction. You're talking about

adding a 3' piece to each side of each door. Those pieces would need to be very dry, about the same age and species, should be mortised and tenoned the full length of the door, glued and screwed, and the hinges would then be fitted to the glued on piece.  A good woodworking shop could do that for you but I expect when the dust settles it will cost as much or more than new doors. 

Florida Licensed Building Contractor, 50 years experience in commercial remodeling, new homes, home remodeling and repairs and all types building maintenance.

I would start by trimming (post #216582, reply #21 of 21)

I would start by trimming both current edges straight and square to the face...The outside edge where the two doors meet may well be beveled.

 

I would then plan on a tongue and a groove.  I woud prefer it to be fairly deep...say at least 3/4".  I think I would put the tongue on the existing piece and the groove on the new piece. 

The problem is still going to be how will the hinge side extensions stand up to the strain.  Depending on the application, I might opt, after the tongue and groove attachment, to skin the inside of the doors with a high quality plywood.  I wouldnt mess with trying to disassemble.  The likelyhood of getting them apart without destroying both the stiles and the rails is about zero in my estimation.  Just apply the plywood to the inside and treat it like a veneer gluing it over the entire surface (not dots here or there).