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Alternate building materials question.
I have read in a few different publications over the years, articles that talk about building houses from beer bottles to tires.
I've see houses from straw and mud, homemade brick houses, and I'm sure the list would grow if I tried enough.
I realize that these may make good efficient homes.
But do they have market value?
I have also pondered the idea of just buying a wooded lot and a bandsaw saw mill, and just starting to whittle at the trees until I get some boards, I'd love a solid oak house.
I also have pondered the totally earth covered house, well I'd have to leave some of it exposed for a door or two.
Anyway I've wondered about building a house on the absloute cheap for years. I just want something that has resale value, and is safe to live in.
Is it possible in the world of codes and standards?
Thanks for all your replys.
plumber_bob...
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks!
I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
pb
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(post #157765, reply #1 of 55)
Make sure it has wheelchair ramps & is ADA compliant------- Hippies are getting old ;-)
(post #157765, reply #2 of 55)
Hippies are getting old
Last time I was in Marin County, those Hippie chicks still had hairy legs, but it was gray hair.
Old gross.........
Joe H
(post #157765, reply #3 of 55)
Damn, dude you pegged me!!! Was it my long hair? The shades? What?
I know I couldn't be obvious? LOL
Make sure it has wheelchair ramps & is ADA compliant------- Hippies are getting old ;-)
I see the future need for the ramps but, I think I did some ADA back in the 60's not sure tho. Oh that was LDS, nope wait it was........ well anyway it had initials and I was ahhhhhh... oh ya, young back then.....
But I am serious about if it is practical.
And I don't mean a house built from bongs!
Resale aspects might bring up issues!!! Not sure what they would be, but my spidy senses are tingling!
Thanks
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks!
I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
pb
(post #157765, reply #4 of 55)
Some of the early FHB had straw bale houses discussed. Somewhere I saw exterior walls built with buckets filled with sand and metal lathe attached and stuccoed.
(post #157765, reply #5 of 55)
Some of the early FHB had straw bale houses discussed. Somewhere I saw exterior walls built with buckets filled with sand and metal lathe attached and stuccoed.
So with what you have seen are these houses marketable? I mean if, I built one, would it have value on the market?
I've got this thing that if I build it is it gonna be of value to others?
Let me rephrase this, can I build a house from recycled stuff and it be of value to others. "Marketable"?
How green can you get?
Not much of a question, but it can take some thought.
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks!
I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
pb
(post #157765, reply #6 of 55)
I'm gonna look at the old issues I have and see if I can see any pics. The bales are covered with gunned conxcrete, I believe and the straw treated. It looks just like stucco or plaster to me.
These issues are around 83-84. I'll get back to you tomorrow.
(post #157765, reply #9 of 55)
Thanks man, I'll be looking forward to that.
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks!
I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
pb
(post #157765, reply #8 of 55)
Reminds me of the store that has a notice on one door saying "we buy junk"and the one on the other door says "We sell antiques"
(post #157765, reply #11 of 55)
"Reminds me of the store that has a notice on one door saying "we buy junk"and the one on the other door says "We sell antiques""
So, you've been by!
Sorry I missed ya.
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks!
I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
pb
(post #157765, reply #12 of 55)
Good luck in your quest!
(post #157765, reply #13 of 55)
Recycled materials = recycled = green = definitely marketable to a segment of the population.
Just make sure it has some architectural integrity and obviously built to code.
Now, if you're looking for mass market resellability, then, no. anything beyond a vinyl clad box will be seen as 'crazy' by 99% of all mortgage banks and will make it tough to sell on the open market.
(post #157765, reply #14 of 55)
"Now, if you're looking for mass market resellability, then, no. anything beyond a vinyl clad box will be seen as 'crazy' by 99% of all mortgage banks and will make it tough to sell on the open market."
That's about what I figured, some people are not as open minded as they could be. That is probably why I don't see much, creative building.
I guess I'd be better look at conventional materials and work on the super insulation angle then. :-(
I appreciate the reply!
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks!
I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
pb
(post #157765, reply #15 of 55)
I guess I'd be better look at conventional materials and work on the super insulation angle then. :-(
No need to get down about working with conventional materials...like wood.
If you have the right situation, like building in an area that will support a creative design, you can expand your ideas considerably without concerns about the potential market.
It's becoming more clear, as this new century rolls along, that energy efficiency will be a key feature in marketing new homes, very soon.
We are fortunate to have several tax incentives to help us save money on those materials.
We also have the capital gains exclusion on profits from the resale of primary homes, to encourage us to build and sell, every few years. That's a topic which doesn't get much discussion here but it's certainly important to my retirement plans, has been since I was a sprout.
(post #157765, reply #18 of 55)
No need to get down about working with conventional materials...like wood.
I'm not as bummed as I made it sound. I guess I was looking to build something on the cheap and solid and.....
I came close to building a house about 12 years ago, my plan was to buy a portable bandsaw sawmill to cut my lumber from the standing timber I had on my farm. I'm really glad I didn't, for two reasons. 1) I had no idea what I was getting into at the time. 2)If I had managed to get it built, I'd still be back here in Ky. now, and the "EX" would be in it now.
It's becoming more clear, as this new century rolls along, that energy efficiency will be a key feature in marketing new homes, very soon.
This is very true. I belive that before I stop walking on this planet, the new houses will be totally different, kinda like comparing a Model 'T' to one of those hybrid cars!
We are fortunate to have several tax incentives to help us save money on those materials
I need to really look at all of these kinds of options as well as the others you mentioned. It is amazing at all that needs to be considered when tackling a job like building a home.
I can remember when I first hired on as an apprentice plumber. I figured that it was no big deal to plumb a house. Just give me some valves, some pipe, and some fixtures, and I'll show you! WRONG!
I really appreciate your input Hudson Valley!
Thanks
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks!
I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
pb
(post #157765, reply #28 of 55)
I really appreciate your input Hudson Valley!
More like overflow...LOL.
Here's another point that's worth considering about building a home for yourself, it's as much about living inside your own energy as it is about living inside an unusual design.
My first home in the woods began as a small cabin, built without power tools. It was basic shelter, just what I could afford from my carpenter's wages, shortly after I purchased the property.
I had to do everything the hard way, from carrying all the materials in from the road on my shoulder, to cutting all the lumber and plywood with a hand saw. Didn't matter to me, I loved every minute of it. Sweat equity and joyful liberation from fast paced production methods.
I was able to contemplate plump and level, straight and square in my own way and time, enjoying the deeper understanding that came to me from working with hand tools, at my own pace.
Living inside that energy field, blessed by my own spirit's love of life, was a pure pleasure of the highest order.
So I'm not concerned so much about style or designing a home that will be admired by others. I know that whatever I build will be a great place to live, as long as I put my love of life into it.
(post #157765, reply #32 of 55)
Hey Hudson!
That is pretty much what I wanted to do back about 20 Years ago. Buy a plot of land that we could afford, and build as you can. But I was deemed crazy!(I should'a bailed right then!) and we ended up getting a loan and buying a farm.
Don't get me wrong the farm was great, I grew alot during that adventure! And tried alot, plus learned way more that I would have dreamed. I probably could write a fairly lengthy book on my Trials and errors during those 11 years. Doing things yourself and understanding what and why you're doing it is very rewarding....
One last thing here:
My first home in the woods began as a small cabin, built without power tools
How much experience did you have when you started your first house?
Thanks again I appreciate your input.
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks!
I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
pb
(post #157765, reply #35 of 55)
My first home in the woods began as a small cabin, built without power tools
How much experience did you have when you started your first house?
Well, to clarify, that little place was built without power tools because I didn't have electricity on site yet. Finances being very limited, paycheck to paycheck, I had to forego the electricity for a while.
My carpentry skills as a framer were adequate at the time, though not complete. I'd worked with some highly competent framers, over the previous two years, so I had a very good understanding of how each framing task was performed.
As an apprentice, I'd been given only the repetitive assembly tasks to do so that house was the first opportunity I'd had, to put what I'd learned through observation and study to good use.
(post #157765, reply #16 of 55)
So with what you have seen are these houses marketable?
Given how many people buy McHouses in soul-crushingly homogenized subdivisions, the general answer is probably "No."
I mean if, I built one, would it have value on the market?
Ah, in specific, your house would be guaranteed to have value to two parties--You, and the County Tax Assessor.
(post #157765, reply #17 of 55)
121125.17 in reply to 121125.6
"So with what you have seen are these houses marketable?"
Given how many people buy McHouses in soul-crushingly homogenized subdivisions, the general answer is probably "No."
But are they still? I don't know much about elsewhere, but the McMansion stage has come to an abrupt halt in my neck of the woods of central MA. I know quite a few that have been sitting empty on the market for years now. Meanwhile the "green building" buzz is all over the conventional media...seems to me the tides a finally turning. Marketability, i suppose has a lot to do with your specific location, but i say high efficiency is a safe bet. PAHS has peaked my interest of late...
(post #157765, reply #21 of 55)
but the McMansion stage has come to an abrupt halt in my neck of the woods of central MA. I know quite a few that have been sitting empty on the market for years now
Well, in the Houston, Austin, San Antonio oblong, McMansions petered out about 2003--just not enough city lots left to turn over. There's still some, but they are hit or miss.
In that same region, the tract builders are still going, breeding up 4 to 8 stock floor plans on tracts at 6-8 the acre--McHouses, not mansions. That's where the RE people can point to consistent sales right now. Appears to be a bias against "old house" as having "old problems" except for those in the lower pricing tiers.
Now, the things that fueled the McMansions are still there. Mature developed lots of fifty or more years' age. The tax burden sets the price per acre more than any seller or buyer (or their bank) can. Means an infill house or replacement house winds up beeing built to the price and dimensions of present constrcution costs, not those of 30, 40, 50 years ago.
So, is my house marketable? Yes (figuratively speaking). Replacable? I'm not sure of that. Averaging between assessed and RE sale value, about $75-78/sf--so a replace ment is either 5/8 the size, or 15/8 the cost for the same sf in place. However, as an infill lot, even 15/8 would be undersized versus lot price. And land value is what banks still largely use.
Now, find a way to market tract houses with a green label, you'll make some money.
Build one green house--maybe not so much. Build one custom house that is also green, well you've redoubled the fun of selling a custom-built house to people used to apartment, gerbil-habitat, housing.
(post #157765, reply #19 of 55)
Given how many people buy McHouses in soul-crushingly homogenized subdivisions.
I know what you mean. There is actually a big builder in our area who is considered the WalMart of the housing industry around here. He actually was a big wig at Walley World, be for he decided to change hats. In one year his amount of houses built worked out be about one house a day. His subdivisions are everywhere, and he's still building more than anyone else around here.
Thanks for the view. I need all I can get.
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks!
I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
pb
(post #157765, reply #20 of 55)
A Timber frame with sip's would be highly marketable.
Provided you have the skills and timber it could be an
option.
Strawbales are built to a limited extent in my area.People
often remark how warm and solid they feel.
Not exactly a hot seller, but there are a couple of builders
feeding themselves that way.
(post #157765, reply #23 of 55)
Strawbales are built to a limited extent in my area.People
often remark how warm and solid they feel.
Not exactly a hot seller, but there are a couple of builders
feeding themselves that way.
I have no doubt that there are better and cheaper ways to build, I've built too many hutches and coops,(when I had the farm), in the past. None of them had resale value either! lol. But the little critters did stay warm in the winter!
I guess my big thing is that when the last nail is driven or what ever fastening method it is, I would like the home to be paid for, with as little a dent to my saving as possible.
I know, I'm cheap. That's why I keep an old junk Ford in the back, it's parts for the other old Ford that I drive.
Did I mention I hate credit and loans, really it's the payment part I hate.
Thanks man! Much appreciated!
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks!
I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
pb
(post #157765, reply #24 of 55)
Oh ya, I forgot:
Provided you have the skills and timber it could be an
option.
I have a good handle on the logging and sawing part but as with anything I'd have to start small and grow. So first a shed, the maybe a shop, then a garage, and then if I feel right about it, I'd build the house.
I would have to have the acerage first of course.
I do know that trying to run, before you learn to walk is very expensive!
Thanks again!
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks!
I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
pb
(post #157765, reply #22 of 55)
Yea they tried to build a house for us. It don't go all that great when you watch them. Pretty crappy work. Here's a thread about it.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=121057.94&redirCnt=1
New tagline coming soon..
(post #157765, reply #25 of 55)
Dam you find me no matter where I hide!
I almost went into your story but I remembered you telling me that you had posted the whole adventure, so I was trying to keep from beating a dead horse, or at least starting on it.
Anyway, I'm glad you are still trolling the area for knowledge, sorry I didn't bring any for ya!
Oh ya, what's the next pic your gonna post? I can't wait, you should see which one can get you kicked out there the farthest. Try a bigger one so they know it isn't real this time.
Might even be a new thread!
Look at what you've done now! I'm off the subject!
I'm gonna stuff a frying pan down the back of my pants, just incase they give me a boot.
Have you been humbled? That ain't possible! Is it?
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks!
I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
pb
(post #157765, reply #27 of 55)
Dam you find me no matter where I hide!
I've been wanting to post about my knowledge of beer can pyramid construction but have restrained myself.
Oh ya, what's the next pic your gonna post? I can't wait, you should see which one can get you kicked out there the farthest. Try a bigger one so they know it isn't real this time
Based on all the supporting Email I've received from lurkers here who never post. I've decided that the tavern needs a lot more pool noodle pictures. You know that skit from SNL? "Need more Cowbell" Well that's gonna be my thing. This place needs more pool noodle. I'm also insiperd by the Emails from lurkers who never post here to start a blog dedicated to pool noodles. And the art of posing with them.
Look at what you've done now! I'm off the subject!
You've stayed on subject way longer then normal.
Anyway if you want a great insulated wall give this a look. 65624.1
New tagline coming soon..
(post #157765, reply #30 of 55)
wondered about building a house on the absloute cheap for years -
My kinda guy, did not see this tread earlier.
IMexperience, the 2 items that are the most difficult to find on the cheap are concrete and roofing, everything else (even wire, electrical, flooring, plumbing, heat pumps, lighting, ducts, etc. ) can be gotten at 10 cents on the dollar at garage sales, craigslist, etc. --IF you plan 5 years ahead and start accumulating.
I have split my own cedar shingles from my own trees, but even for me that is too time consuming and mind numbing labor for me - nice to do one time maybe for a small place to say you have done it, but otherwise a loser. Have done a few shed roofs with old water heater jacket steel, but zero resale value there probably..... <G>
Have never crushed rocks or kilned my own cement, although have washed my own gravel, etc. , but have never found surplus cement in other than part bag quantities at 10 cents on the dollar deals.
Oh yeah, forgot to add, have only ever once scored a full box of collated nails for the nailer cheap, although did once get 300 gal of free diesel for the dozer for pulling an old tank.
(post #157765, reply #34 of 55)
junkhound,
I'm not even going to do the quote and respond thingy here, I'd just as well paste the whole note!
Let me just say, You are one of the many here who are making me realize that I'm not a 'Crazy old hippy', too many people have that need for Instant Gratification!
On the time factor, I would like to be able to have the last detail tended to before or by the time I retire, but if I don't start until then, that's cool too. I've learned that patience is a virtue!, the hard way!!!
Concrete and roofing! Oh yes, when it comes to these areas I will have to shell out some bucks, I know when to bow down to the masters, I've nowhere near the knowledge and experience to tackle that stuff.
Anyway, I could write on and on, I'll get under control here in a sec. tho
Oh yeah, I don't retire for 15-20 years yet, yep I'm a young buck still! Ha Ha, only 50!
Thanks junkhound.... Just the name, tells me that we have things in common!
It is a shame that all the people who really know how to run this country, and run it right, are busy, cutting hair, driving taxi's and trucks!
I believe George Burns said something to that effect.
pb
(post #157765, reply #37 of 55)
plumberbob
Don't for a second think that concrete is spmething you can't tackle. I'm old well into my 50's when I started.. I'm fat from a sedentary lifestyle (I'm a salesman) and terriblky out of shape..
I did all my own concrete work. It's easy if you do it the right way!
same for my roofing.. Look at the pictures of my place and I will tell you that doing the roofing was the easiest most enjoyable part of this process. It's steady repitious work that doesn't take a rocket scientist to do..