OK….I wanted to start the first “on topic” thread in the new folder. (It takes so little to make me happy.) So….here goes.
A thread on kitchen lighting earlier last week got me thinkin’. Where does recessed lighting fall in the realm of “green building”?
I would imagine, that theoretically….if switched properly, a room illuminated with recessed cans wouldn’t use all that much more energy than a room lighted using more conventional methods.
How often is that theory used in practice though? I’m imagining the typical homeowner flips the switch(es) for most if not all lights in a room when entering.
I know alot of the new kitchens I work on get loaded up with cans. And I don’t know that too many of the HOs necessarily use them as designed.
What say you?
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Replies
J.D.
I agree completely. The problem as I see it is too many switch options. Most home owners have difficulty in knowing with switch controls which lights. Combine the number of different lights in the house, with the number and location of wall switches and the number of 3-way configurations and you have a setup for confusion. I took to making nice labels for all switches to give the home owner a head start in memorizing what switch controls which lights. They seem to appreciate the small detail.
The glass diffusers on mine eat quite a bit of the output. And I've yet to find a compact fluorescent that'll fit into them. Other than recycled, mine aren't very green. We use only undercabinet task lighting (fluorescent) when possible.
Great illumination from those cans. Wish I had more. These 10 were a small part of 2 pallets for $75 at auction.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Because cans through most of their light down, for ambient light I would guess it takes four cans to equal one surface-mount schoolhouse type light.
That article in the last K&B issue indicated that cans were not very energy efficent.
How does energy efficency play in your concept of "Green Building"?
How does energy efficency play in your concept of "Green Building"?
Is that the title of the article?
I have the issue....haven't gotten very far into it.....read the edirorial towards the front of mag on wasteful shower fixtures...but have put it down and have yet to pick it back up. I'll take a peek tonight.
I just can't imagine that recessed lighting on the whole is anything but wasteful.
When used in specific areas, to achieve specific results....sure...they're ideal.
But in general....gotta amount to a huge waste of energy.
In the thread that got me thinkin' about this, a poster mentioned his own kitchen containing 19 recessed fixtures. Doing the math...it worked out to about 1 fixture per 6.5 sq. ft. of space. (To be fair...he did say they were on various switches and that he used them in a specific manner...not lighting the entire room at all times.) I just don't see the average person being quite so concientious. (sp?)
Anyhow....in the majority of discussions on green building, I just don't think lighting gets enough attention. Spcifically, the use of recessed lighting.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
No. The article is something like "10 points from an energy nerd" or something like that.
I'll look this evening and let you know.
I believe you are confusing JLC with the K&B issue Intrepid - and besides the JLC author saying that he just thought recessed lighting was stupid, he said that recessed lighting was particularly wasteful when installed among the joists which separate living space (ie: bedrooms) from unconditioned attic space. Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator
Your right. Just looked and thought I was losing it when I couldn't find it in the K&B.
Started pulling out the JLC and lo and behold..............
Here you go:
Efficiency Dos and Don'ts From an Energy Nerd
With high fuel prices here to stay, now is the time to get it right
http://www.jlconline.com/cgi-bin/jlconline.storefront/453d69820023f45e27177f000001059b/UserTemplate/82?s=453d69820023f45e27177f000001059b&c=d24947b5d73b556f68b1d0f17b88ab94&p=1
That's the link to the whole artice but here's the excerpt I was referring to:
Don't Install Recessed Can Lights on the Top FloorDespite their tendency to cast strange shadows on people's faces, recessed can lights retain an inexplicable popularity. Ignoring the pleas of lighting experts — who note that it makes more sense to light the ceiling than the floor — many customers still request recessed cans. When installed in an insulated ceiling, these fixtures are an energy disaster. Some builders have switched to "airtight" cans. But airtight cans are not completely airtight. The amount of leakage depends on the care exercised when installing the gasketed trim kit, and any future trim changes can affect the fixture's airtightness. It is much easier to air-seal electrical boxes installed for surface-mounted fixtures than to air-seal a recessed can. Just say no to recessed cans.
I'll agree that you don't get anywhere near as much illumination per watt from cans. But there nothing worse than a freaking ceiling mounted light fixture when it comes to eyesores. You guys can keep 'em. I still like (lots of) cans on multiple dimmers for lots of applications.
When did this folder appear? I like it. We can have every other thread in this folder be about "what is green building" or "can we stop calling it green building".
I think recessed lights are fine when used appropriately- I've put in a few, and I notice that I don't put them in nearly as dense as I see in magazines (I put 3 in a kitchen 13'x15'), and I always but CFL bulbs in them- they're readily available here, for about $7.
zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
"When did this folder appear?"
Hah! I wondered the same thing!
Figured I'd find you in here. Hey, did you go to that Green Building conference in S.F.? We were at a retreat this weekend and one of the speakers said they planned on 3,000 attendees and 9,000 showed up. Sheez.
Yeah, I went to the Green building thing. It had it's ups and downs. I didn't learn a whole lot ( I do a lot of reading on construction, even aside from here), but I did get to see some good presentations, see more case studies, and stuff.
The place was kind of a madhouse- there was a line out the front door of the convention center the first morning.
I'm not really doing specifically green building down here, though. That's ok, as long as I'm doing high-quality work that will outlast me, I'm happy.zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
I put some of the CFL's that look like R40's in the recessed cans in my kitchen at home. Work nice except take a minute or so to get to full brightness. Couldnt find the instant on type in the R40 style. If anyone has a source for them it would be appreciated.
Rich.
Funny, I have had limited browsing time as of late on BT.
Imagine my surprise when I look today and find this folder.
I think I will like it.
As for the cans. I really have no input other than they certainly are needed for aesthetics.
Lamps and ceiling lights leave alot to be desired.
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WWPD
Did you run across the thread I directed to you?
I tried responding to your email.....but it got bumped back.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Here ya go:
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=80456.1
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Are there any flourescents that light up immediately to full output? As the bulbs burn out in the house, I've been replacing them with CFLs. But they take some time to warm up, which can be somewhat inconvienent. Is this just what it is for CFLs, or is there a different brand or style to be had?
Thanks for your help.
Lighting is such a mixed bag...all different kinds, lots of different reasons for uing them all. Someone was talking about the excess of switches, I usually see the opposite...20 cans and three switches...but to keep all this lighting really green, doesn't it need to be powered by a water wheel and a hand hewn wooden and found mineral conversion system?<G> "I am the master of low expectations." Georgie Boy, aboard Air Force One, June 4, 2003
...20 cans and three switches...
Yep....probably closer to two switches most often.
Obviously I'm only going by "personal experience"....which can vary greatly and aren't necessarily a true representation of actuality.....but "most" folks I know, simply flip a switch when entering a room. they don't pause to consider which "lighting scheme" will best best suit their needs at the time. (Case in point....my own family. Two switches when entering kitchen/dining areas. Both switches automatically get flipped...whether its the dining area to be used, or the kitchen area.)
doesn't it need to be powered by a water wheel
LOL....of course, redirecting water routes isn't always in the best interest of the surrounding enviroment.
FREE SPONGE BOB,SANCHO PANTS!
perhaps some HOs would agree to different switching arrangements..
.maybe some of the cans could be controlled by adding a photocell into another switched circuit...so they only come on if the outside ambient light is low .
still others could be controlled by occupancy sensors....
and a few could go through a fixed timer remote from the switch
230v lamps could be installed in specific ones that merely provide night lighting and are always on.....
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.Wer ist jetzt der Idiot
?