We are going for a five star green rating on our new house and wanted some opinion on good High Efficiency Toilets. I went with the cheap Pegasus Cottage because I needed something for final inspections, and I got no more than I expected.
Anyone have a recommendation for a great High Efficiency Toilet? Namely one that actually removes solids from the toilet.
Thanks for your input.
Bruce
Replies
Toto. Have changed in all of the bathrooms. Never have had a problem.
Mark,
Is there a particular model that you have used so I can check stats on it?
Bruce
gpoing green? build a out house,think of all the water you can save,so you can turn on your 68 head sprinkler system fo the yard.
sorry just being a smart az. but toliets are a pet peeve of mine,lets make sure we only flush a 1.5 gal to conserve. then water the yard 4 times a week using 1000 gals each time. this whole green thing has a long ways to go. larry
if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
I just poop in the yard.
Forrest
i don't see anything wrong with that,my dog goes in the yard twice a day,his smells just as bad as mine. worst thing is what to do with the toliet paper................[dog doesn't bother ] larryif a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
bring a bic with ya....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Not the vision I needed to start my morning off with.
Thanks.
Don't disagree, but two wrongs don't make it right. You have to reduce piece by piece ... system by system.
There are ways to reduce lawn watering, too, though ... but he didn't ask that question, so I didn't answer it.
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/03/washer-toilet.php
Toto isn't in the box stores round here, so I bought an American Standard Cadet. I've had it for three months, and I have not used a plunger yet, and maybe had to go to two flushes once or twice. Definitely meets my needs.
I had the Kohler Wellworth for awhile in the late 90's. It was described to me by a plumber friend as "the best two flush toilet out there". He wasn't kidding about the two flushes. The American Standard is head and shoulders above the Wellworth.
When you say "high efficiency", what do you mean? If you want the best flushing without using alot of water, the Toto Drake seems to be a good bet (I was planning to put this in my new home, but haven't tried it yet). I believe it is a 1.28 GPF model, but is designed with a trapway that allows it to perform well (ie., get rid of the poop) at that lower water usage...
That model is called the Eco Drake and I installed one a few months ago in my house.
Not sure what brand it is, but my daughter has a pretty groovy toilet in the new house. It has two flush buttons, one for "liquids", the other for "solids".
I'll see if I can find out which brand it is.
Christopher Robin got up in the morning, the sneezles had vanished away. And the look in his eye seemed to say to the sky, "Now how to amuse them today?".
I probably shouldn't say anything about efficiency, but the most EFFECTIVE toilet I ever owned was in an original 1917 Craftsman style house I bought in the early 80's.
It was a 6-gallon monster, with a wall-mounted tank. Had a 2-1/2 inch pipe going from the tank to the bowl, with spuds to keep everything dry on the outside.
I never actually tried, but I'll bet that thing could have flushed the entire Sunday paper and a dozen golf balls at the same time.
Ah, those were the good old days. I'm now living with an American Standard Champion, which is a two-flush-plus-plunge device.
We had one of those and you could about flush a beach towell.
I put a Toto dual flush in. .9 G and 1.6 G.
Chuck S
live, work, build, ...better with wood
Edited 8/27/2008 1:35 pm ET by stevent1
Hi,We have a Caroma Caravelle 270 (elongated) (http://www.caromausa.com) in our house and will be installing another one in the addition that the drywallers are about to start boarding.We have found it very effective at removing solids. They are 3L and 6L dual flush toilets that work on a wash down approach as opposed to the conventional siphon approach. Which means when you use six litres to flush your solids down all six litres travels with the solids down your waste pipes. As opposed to the siphon approach where a few litres are lost creating the siphon that pulls the solids out of the toilet, leaving only a few litres to carry the solids down your waste pipes.Read Jon Eakes article for an explanation... http://joneakes.com/cgi-bin/getdetailscals.cgi?id=1429
Jon makes a good point about which is preferable beside your toilet... a scrub brush or plunger!Also there is a fairly rigorous testing protocol called MaP (Maximum Performance) for toilets. It'll give you a pretty good sense of how effective your toilet is at removing solids. More to the point it shows how much stool a given toilet will flush before something gets left behind.
Here's the link to the latest MaP testing...
http://www.cwwa.ca/pdf_files/MaP%2012th%20Edition.pdf
Interestingly the ADA qualified Caroma toilets are able to move more solids; must be the extra height!Caroma's site has volumes in gallons. Sorry, I grew up with metric and it's easier for me to use except when you have to translate.Caroma USA has brought in one of Caroma's 3L / 4.5L dual flush toilets but don't yet have the full selection that's available in Australia.The water savings are pretty profound with dual flush toilets, and you'll use less energy if you are pumping water from a well. Finally all things being equal, your septic system will last longer (if you have one) because you're pushing less volume through your septic tank giving things more time to settle out in the tank then ending up in your septic field. A slight cost premium for a good dual flush toilet has to be worth extending the life of your septic field.Dual flush toilets also have huge benefits for reducing costs to municipal waste systems but most home owners treat that as an externalized cost. That said it is pretty expensive upgrading a sewer system, and ultimately that comes out of home owner's property taxes. It is a whole lot cheaper to reduce the volume entering the sewer system than increasing the system's capacity.Thanks for starting this thread. I'm quite happy with my Caroma toilet.Cheers,AndrewP.S. Caroma has two bowl (closet) types, 270 and 305, the 305 installs conventionally. The 270 has a pretty neat boot that makes installation really easy, especially in a retrofit situation.
Edited 8/27/2008 12:47 pm ET by AndrewInChelseaQC
Of everyone here, you are the only one I've ever heard with that problem with an AS Champion. I've got 3 of them (2 now, as I replaced one with a TOTO for it's looks), and they all flushed like there was a black hole in the sewer pipe. Hit handle - WHOOSH - gone.
I don't recall ever having to plunge these toilets. Is it possible you have a double wax ring glop over that's constricting the waste flow?Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Save the Whales! and Guns!
>"I don't recall ever having to plunge these toilets. Is it possible you have a ............"In six years of remodeling jobs (probably a few dozen toilet installs), I installed a total of three AS Champions -- one of which is in my own home. Not counting that one.....Those other two "Champion" toilets caused me more callbacks than all other products and services COMBINED. I finally convinced both homeowners to allow me to replace them, and I am waiting and watching for an opportunity to replace my own.But maybe someone is happy -- I donated the old champions to the local Habitat Re-Store.Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
I'm guessing those first two had issues with the flush tower ring seal? Anything else you had a problem with on them?Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Save the Whales! and Guns!
>>I'm guessing those first two had issues with the flush tower ring seal? Anything else you had a problem with on them?"Yes. Even after numerous callbacks dealing with the tower seal -- which got better after some sort of redesign -- I still had calls to come plunge the mess, come look at the 'backwash', come fix this problem.And when I replaced the champions with Kohler's, the calls stopped. Immediately. (Even though my opinion of Kohler's toilets is mediocre.)There may have been subsequent redesigns that I was not aware of, but it'll be some other lifetime when I install my next AS Champion. I hate callbacks.
Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
Thanks for the input.
Bruce
My daughter has two high efficiency toilets for about 3 years now. One is a Toto Carlyle very well designed and very quiet. The other is a Briggs which functions quite well but is very noisy.
Thanks for the info Tom.
AndrewInChelseaQC pointed out the CUWCC report. They've updated every few months since '03. FWIW, the link that gets you to the page (and will have links to the most current version of the results) is http://www.cuwcc.org/MapTesting.lasso . The results tables (sorted by mfr. or by performance) are smaller files than the full report.
Toto has come out with "Eco" versions of several existing models. So, the Eco Drake is the 1.28 gpf version of the 1.6 gpf Drake. From the MaP testing, Toto's dual-flush Aquia performed better than the Eco models, except the ADA height Eco Drake (too tall for my short legs). We have 2 1.6gpf Totos- if I had to get another, I'd probably get a dual-flush model.
There are also a lot of other mfr.s who've caught up with Toto over the years. You can see in the tables which met LA's criteria and EPA's WaterSense criteria.
Hiker,
This one's the answer to your prayers.
http://www.bumperdumper.com
Can't get much greener that that!!! :)
http://www.grosshillrentals.com
As much as I appreciate the simplicity of the product, I think the bride may not approve, but worth a try.
Much obliged.
Bruce
How fast do you need to be going to get a good spread pattern?
Toto has many good low GPF toilets. Client of mine bought three very low flow models (1.2GPF?) and they work well.
Look for rebates on low-flow Toto models. My client payed about $300 each for the toilets and got $150 "green" rebate on each of them, so the net cost was less than typical 1.6 GPF toilet.
I did some research on it and it seemed like the consensous was the Toto CST414M Toilet.
It is a 2 stage toilet.
Thanks
Saw a presentation by Zurn industries recently. Maybe they are commercial only. If you want efficiency you should install a urinal, too (waterless). Best way is composting toilet ... NO water ... just feed the garden.
I have the Toto Eco Drake - 1.28 - I have clogged it exactly once, and I have a 3 yr old who likes to load it up with paper and wipes. Works much better than the American Standard 5 gallon it replaced.
BTW, I spent extra for the "sani-gloss" finish and the toilet never seems to get dirty - any "solids" get flushed right away. This is sometimes an issue with low-flows, as there isn't as much water to cacth the business and you can get a lot of skid marks. The slow-close seat is a piece of ####, though. What, you can't say #### on this board anymore?
happy flushing
Thanks Rick
Think dual flush toilet, maybe too. Heard a vendor rep talk at an office training recently, if I remember to check the brand, I'll pass it on to you. He had 1 pint urinals and super low flush toilets ... not sure if he had residential and commercial, though.
Dual flush toilet ... 1.0 gpf for liquids 1.6 for solids. Great since most uses are for liquids.
Another alternative ... composting toilets ... joking and not at the same time.
The challenge with the dual flush is that most have a modern style to them. Most of my work is on older homes -arts and craft or tudor and need something more stylistically appropriate.
Bruce
Composting Toilets are in the future, but not so near future at least as far as my clientele is concerned.
re: composting ... yeah, right. The situation has to be right and the clientelle receptive.
Hiker,
I have heard good things about the Caroma Sydney Smart toilet- a .8/1.2G dual flush- the lowest water user on the market (excluding composting toilets!). We plan to get one in December. Kohler has some more traditional-looking dual flush models that you might want to check out, too (I think the Sterling Karsten is the one...)Shawn
Thanks for the info. My wife found a study of some ten thousand toilets where they flushed bean dip or something to that effect. Some units were rated upto 1000 grams. The models we had purchased were rated at 500 grams.
Our challenge with all these toilets are there are very few that have a vintage look.
Best of luck.
Bruce
Need to pay attention to skid mark minimization. I like the Kohler Cimmaron for that as I don't want my home owner to have to clean the toilet after every flush. Toto Aquia also gets good marks but I haven't tried it yet since the Kohlers are working for me. ------------------
"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
Shelt, I'm a little confused by your comment:
>"Need to pay attention to skid mark minimization... I don't want my home owner to have to clean the toilet after every flush...Toto Aquia also gets good marks" I'm curious - which kind of marks are the good ones?
------------------
There's an article in the latest "Kitchen and Baths" issue of FHB that talks about a dual-flush retrofit kit.
http://www.brondell.com/products/EcoIntro.php
Caroma Talisman 270 Very good never a problem have 2 am going to put in two more. We live along a lake no septic fields all gets pumped and hauled to a lagoon. My old early low flush toilet has 2 plungers by it and it going to be a pleasure to bust it up when it gets replaced. Caroma has a 4 inch trap I think you could flush a cat down with out it clogging and don't sit on it when you hit the big button you get a free ball wash with cold water.
As some have suggested dual flush models are very efficient and that is what I would put in my house next chance I get. However I have heard that they do not earn you the points you would think they should because of the chance of operator error in choosing the wrong flush.
Check with the person who will be evaluating your home.
Also check out this site:
http://www.terrylove.com/crtoilet.htm