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vinyl v. fiberglass replacement windows

Tuna1's picture

vinyl v. fiberglass replacement windows (post #181412)

Tuna1 on Sun, 12/27/2009 - 14:24
in

anyone comment on Milgard fiberglass versus vinyl replacement windows. My installer tells me that currently there's no tax credit for fiberglass versus vinyl. Strange... fiberglass is about twice the $. Will welcome advice. They'll face north side of house in Tucson. In both cases, low E glass,, etc. the only question is fiberglass versus vinyl. Thanks, Tuna

-A +A

Well, you asked specifically (post #181412, reply #1 of 9)

by jimblodgett in reply to Tuna1 [original] on Mon, 12/28/2009 - 10:10

Well, you asked specifically about Milgard, but the fiberglass/vinyl question is a good one.

First off, vinyl is not as strong as fiberglass, so the frames are often bulkier. And vinyl should not be painted a dark color because the melting temperature is so low that absorbed heat can compromise the joints and seals of vinyl windows. But those are both asthetic preferences and might not matter to you.

Vinyl is PVC, or poly vinyl cholide. You know how toxic chorline is? Extremely. So yes, you can save yourself some dollars by supporting an industry that poisons our home, but sooner or later the bill will come due, maybe not in our lifetime, or our children's or even great grandchildren's lifetimes, but eventually.

About Milgard in particular. They advertise vinyl whole window (glazing and frame) U values below .2, which is getting pretty good. Their fiberglass sash has trouble getting to .3. I've been told they are developing a better fiberglass frame system to meet demand for lower whole unit U values, but they are not available yet, at least here in Western Washington, which has long been a Milgard stronghold since they have a large plant in Tacoma, WA.

Lots of other companies DO make fiberglass windows that advertise U values below .3, which I'm pretty sure is the bench mark for energy credit tax credits. Unless you are committed to using Milgard for some reason, it might be worth looking into other manufacturers.

 

>>And vinyl should not be (post #181412, reply #6 of 9)

by rjw in reply to jimblodgett [original] on Tue, 03/30/2010 - 14:13

>>And vinyl should not be painted a dark color because the melting temperature is so low that absorbed heat can compromise the joints and seals of vinyl windows.

Are you familiar whether any problems arise if replacement vinyls are insatlled and exterior storm sash left in place (one su-exposed sides of a structure?)

======================================== "Man's capacity for justice makes democracy possible, but man's inclination to injustice makes democracy necessary." Reinhold Niebuhr: 'The Children of Light and the Children of Darkness' http://rjw-progressive.blogspot.com/ ========================================

I've certainly seen the (post #181412, reply #7 of 9)

by DanH in reply to rjw [original] on Tue, 03/30/2010 - 14:49

I've certainly seen the plastic trim on a door melt, when behind a storm door.


We are like tenant farmers chopping down the fence around our house for fuel when we should be using Nature's inexhaustible sources of energy -- sun, wind and tide. ... I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that. --Thomas Edison

"Are you familiar whether any (post #181412, reply #8 of 9)

by jimblodgett in reply to rjw [original] on Tue, 03/30/2010 - 18:48

"Are you familiar whether any problems arise if replacement vinyls are insatlled and exterior storm sash left in place (one su-exposed sides of a structure?"

I'm not, Bob, sorry.  We don't use storm windows here as a rule.  Our climate is very gentle.

I HAVE heard some shockingly low melting temperatures for various vinyl windows, though.  Like 130 degrees maybe?  Not hard to imagine south facing windows in a high heat climate getting that hot - or even replacement windows surrounded by dark painted jambs?
 

No matter to me.  I have fundamental issues with pvc in any form.  Don't like it and don't like to support the use of it.  They can sugar coat it all they want, it's bad in my book.  We either pay for other products now or our descendents will pay eventually.  All the nay sayers have to do is look at lead and asbestos issues we are trying to deal with today. 

Okay.  Had my turn on the soapbox.

 

Thanks I have just never (post #181412, reply #9 of 9)

by rjw in reply to jimblodgett [original] on Wed, 03/31/2010 - 09:36

Thanks

I have just never thought of overheated vinyl windows behind storm sash as an issue to look for before.

I have seen metal doors painted dark and behind storm sash where the internal insulation has apparently melted (based on sounding the door high and low) and I have heard (at best second hand) of people burning themselves on such doors overheated by sunlight.

======================================== "Man's capacity for justice makes democracy possible, but man's inclination to injustice makes democracy necessary." Reinhold Niebuhr: 'The Children of Light and the Children of Darkness' http://rjw-progressive.blogspot.com/ ========================================

Fiberglass is greener than (post #181412, reply #2 of 9)

by Clewless1 in reply to Tuna1 [original] on Sun, 03/28/2010 - 11:07

Fiberglass is greener than vinyl, I think. As the other poster pointed out ... the PVC industry has been attacked on several occasions for being notoriously (by nature) very environmentally unfriendly from a number of points of view (from manufacture to disposal).

There ain't NO free lunch. Not no how, not no where!

Tax credit (post #181412, reply #3 of 9)

by norman in reply to Tuna1 [original] on Mon, 03/29/2010 - 10:54

My recollection is that the tax credit is for energy star windows, period. No difference for fiberglass vs. vinyl.

IMO, pvc as a housing (post #181412, reply #4 of 9)

by junkhound in reply to Tuna1 [original] on Mon, 03/29/2010 - 11:46
IMO, pvc as a housing material is for those who want to sell a short term project with maximum profit. The only 'PVC anything' in own house is underground pipe and the vinyl seat cover on my backhoe, and the cover on a few stools. As far as PVC for any type window, be glad you were considering it for North facing only, facing south in Tucson they would last a few years at most before looking just as bad as they do new, probably a lot worse. I do have a few vinyl windows on sheds, but those are ones i got free at garage sales, they look it too, and only a few years old!

Heck, JH, dig around in your (post #181412, reply #5 of 9)

by DanH in reply to junkhound [original] on Mon, 03/29/2010 - 18:15

Heck, JH, dig around in your sheds a little -- you've probably got just the windows Tuna needs sitting in a corner somewhere.


We are like tenant farmers chopping down the fence around our house for fuel when we should be using Nature's inexhaustible sources of energy -- sun, wind and tide. ... I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that. --Thomas Edison