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Best Random Orbital Sander?

PeteDraganic's picture

Hi guys...


I am in need of a new ROS and have a large project coming up in which I will be using it.


I will be sanding and refinishing a large amount of urethaned ledges and the sort in a restaurant (while they are closed).


I obviously want all of the things that make a ROS great but most important is dust collection.


Which ROS is the best for collectiing dust, even without a vacuum attached?


What is the best overall choice and why?


Thank you all for the help!




 


 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sw2OvIgoO8 


I need a double cheeseburger and hold the lettuce


Don’t be frontin’ son no seeds on the bun


We be up in this drive thru order for two


I gots a cravin’ for a number nine like my shoe


We need some chicken up in here in this dizzle


For rizzle my mizzle extra salt on the frizzle


Dr. Pepper my brotha another for your mother


Double double super size and don’t forget the fries


 

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 

I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish.        Pete Draganic

 

(post #126190, reply #1 of 35)

If the Festool is anything like the other products in the line, it would be hard to beat. And they have many models.


http://www.mcfeelys.com/festool-sanders


You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.


Marv

You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.

Marv

(post #126190, reply #2 of 35)

I did a search here for reviews and the best I could find were reviews from 2004.


hint hint... time for an updated ROS review, Taunton.


Anyhow, Festool did come up as one of the best overall (the 150/3 I think).. however, given the age of the review, I was hoping for more current analysis.


thanks!




 


 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sw2OvIgoO8 


I need a double cheeseburger and hold the lettuce


Don’t be frontin’ son no seeds on the bun


We be up in this drive thru order for two


I gots a cravin’ for a number nine like my shoe


We need some chicken up in here in this dizzle


For rizzle my mizzle extra salt on the frizzle


Dr. Pepper my brotha another for your mother


Double double super size and don’t forget the fries


 

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 

I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish.        Pete Draganic

 

(post #126190, reply #3 of 35)

Pete, I have to agree that the Festool is gonna be the best. Hands down.


If you want second best and budget minded a PC rt angle with the shroud and vac hose is about the best I can come up with.


I did demos for wood finishing , selling Apollo HVLPS and Hydrocote finishes, I did this in institutions like prisons and hospitals..well it all took a sander to sell the merits, and at the time, as is true to this day, PC was the best choice ( albeit festool wasn't in the running yet).


I still don't cotton to either Hook and loop or perforated sanding discs, you just can't beat a 5-6" disc that has an abrasive over 100% of its surface.


So, ask your self, "self? is Dust abatement no.1 priorty? Or is sanding the project with the least amount of abrasive cost my aim?"


Weigh effieciency to comfort and convienience..and site protocol.


Exposive environment? What are you sanding?


In my stable I have a lot..each to its own "best" use.


Factor in the cost of discs and the vac, and the quality ofd what you aim for..it's not a cut and dried subject.


Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks


"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"

www.richmondrenovationsandrestoration.com  

(post #126190, reply #5 of 35)

I read some where the Rigid at the home dump, got apretty big thumbs up , the 5" R.O.S. The writer like the balance, and the overall performance. The Festool is a real nice tool, but these days the pennies seem to be diappearing.The Rigid has a a nice price tag , comparatively. I'm in the market myself and going to give the Rigid a whirl.... It was Joe Fusco


Edited 1/24/2008 5:27 pm ET by alias

(post #126190, reply #28 of 35)

I have both a Rigid 5" model and the Festool 5" RO 125 FEQ.

The Rigid was my first ROS and is a decent little tool. However, I haven't used it again since buying the Festool.

The Festool's advantages are well documented (low vibration, superior dust control, etc.) You've already heard it's expensive, too.

But one pleasant surprise has been the relatively low unit price for the Festool sandpaper.
$19.50 for a 50-sheet pack of 120 grit Festool. Compare to about $1 a sheet for the 10-sheet packs of Norton you are likely to find at Lowes or HD (granted, that's for the blue "3x" paper, which Norton claims will outlast ordinary paper.)

Plus, the Festool paper is offered in a wide range of grits: 50/80/100/120/150/180 "Rubin", 40/60/80/100/120/150/180/220/320/400 "Brilliant".

(post #126190, reply #14 of 35)

Me and myself sat down and discussed it... and yes, dust collection is a huge concern.


Thanks for the input.


btw, I've been using the same craftsman sander for 10 years now.... I might find anything to be a spectacular tool..... although, I do think Craftsman makes some fairly decent power tools even though they get a bad rap.


The craftsman has been spitting out pieces and parts and vibrating worse lately... so time to go new.




 


I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish.        Pete Draganic

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 

I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish.        Pete Draganic

 

(post #126190, reply #15 of 35)

Thansk to everyone for the input.


I was leaning very heavily toward the Festool... even at 260.... but then some of you put the perspective on it that it is not worth THAT much more.


I've seen a Bosch that was rated well and has good dust collection... and at a third the price.. maybe a QUARTER.... maybe that is the smarter way to go.




 


I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish.        Pete Draganic

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 

I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish.        Pete Draganic

 

(post #126190, reply #16 of 35)

Pete, a BT'er here sent me an AEG grinder body with a PC RO attachment ( damm is that enuf abbs?) , and it has no dust control or H&L discs, just PSA..and I gotta say, it the most agressive sander I own.


So, where I am going with this, is maybe, you could get the best of both worlds, by a co-mingling?


I doubt that any manu. makes the do all , end all for every use. Just like anything else, start out rough, and finish with the polish.


If you want to get a good sheen, it takes high oscillations, and great paper/abrasives. That often means air.


I abhorr sanding, but when I have to, I do it as best as I can, as fast as I can, with the best est tool I already own. Or someone else buys.


Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks


"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"

www.richmondrenovationsandrestoration.com  

(post #126190, reply #17 of 35)

Well, most of what i need to do is scuff and recoat.. although there will be areas that need complete sand-through.


This is in a major chain Restaurant so you can imagine how much stuff I need to keep dust off of.




 


I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish.        Pete Draganic

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 

I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish.        Pete Draganic

 

(post #126190, reply #18 of 35)

If dust is that important, the festo is pretty good at that. Don't need the dedicated vac. I hook it up to my shop vac with one of the variable-stepped rubber adapters you can get at Home Despot for a couple of bucks.

Steve

(post #126190, reply #19 of 35)

Two words.


Wet sand


 


Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks


"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"

www.richmondrenovationsandrestoration.com  

(post #126190, reply #20 of 35)

I have the 5" PC right angle RO. 


I really like it,  got it for around $50-60.  Excellent tool for a great price. 


Speed adjusment is a nice feature. 


I buy rolls of automotive paper for cheap.  Get them at an Auto Body supply shop. 


Maybe $15 for a roll of 100 discs,  with adhesive backs. 


Never tried it with dust collection.  Not worried about it outside or in my man cave (garage). 


 


Woods favorite carpenter


 

Woods favorite carpenter

(post #126190, reply #21 of 35)

I know a guy who does high end antique furniture restoration and he swears by the Festool for wet sanding. If dust is gona be a big issue then get the Festool set up. They have deals when you buy a vac & tool together. Also using a shop vac will drive you insane they are so noisy.

(post #126190, reply #22 of 35)

>>using a shop vac will drive you insane they are so noisy.

One word: iPod

Steve

(post #126190, reply #23 of 35)

I have the same as Sphere's  AEG too, which spins at 10,000 rpm. Just raw power. If it runs for long without being in contact with wood the disc usually flys off.


But a 6" Bosch right angle RO I have can almost match it in aggression because it's convertible from direct drive to something like a slip differential.


 

(post #126190, reply #4 of 35)

that pc sphere mentions i think is a great sander,but i've never used it with the dust collector which i think hooks up to a vac attachment????? 


i haven't made enough money this year to buy hook and loop.....    larry


if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?

the older i get ,

the more people tick me off

(post #126190, reply #6 of 35)

I have a 5" PC, 2  6" AEG's. and a Bosch 6". Today I'd look at the Festool.


All mine  have dust collection that works well on flat surfaces but on edges they let alot  escape.


If your ledges are 3" or less I'd look at the new PC compact sander. There is also a 3" Metabo disc sander that might suit you well. Keeping a 5" or 6" flat on the ledge will obviously be crucial for flat results.


There is also an 8" Fein RO if that fits your work.


 


Edited 1/24/2008 10:00 pm ET by cynwyd

(post #126190, reply #7 of 35)

I would have to say the festool. Excellent with just a bag. 100% DUST COLLECTION W/ A vac (sorry bout the caps, don't want to rewrite)

 


"It is like hitting yourself in the head with a hammer: it feels so good when you stop"

(post #126190, reply #8 of 35)

I know some guys who swear by this tool:

http://www.festoolusa.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=7&prodid=571536#

If you want a hand held ROS then I have heard the Bosch is pretty good:

http://www.boschtools.com/Products/Tools/Pages/BoschProductDetail.aspx?pid=1295DVSK

I know a guy who has the festool equivilent of the bosch above and says it is under powered.

(post #126190, reply #9 of 35)

I've used my bosses festool a good bit. It is definitely better than my dewalt but not a hundred and fifty dollars better.
On a side note the larger disc probably gives a better finish,while my smaller is easier to maneuver I think.
Oh yeah their both pretty good with the shop vac hooked up.

(post #126190, reply #10 of 35)

Best overall Festool, Buttttt it works it best when hooked up to the festool vac/DC. So both together will run you about 600-700 bucks...

I also was told when checking the festool out fr it to be effiecient you have to use the festool dc/vac.
It also will fail at least thats what they told me ..early if you dont use a d/c, vac with it.

The fien is supposed to be pretty good too.

other than those 2

I got a Bosch 5" for 69 bucks and I love it. Very little vibration

(post #126190, reply #11 of 35)

Pete,

I have a German made (Metabo) Ridgid 6". It's a great sander, with both rotary and random orbit modes. I've heard now they are made in China. It has decent dust collection with its cloth bag and works really well with my Festool Vac.

I also have the small Festool 5" sander, and I like it a lot. It's not much of a powerhouse, but it leaves a really nice finish and will remove some material with the right paper and some patience. I happen to like the feel of this sander a lot. When I'm sanding panels or other flat surfaces, I can really feel where the high spots are, almost like using a hand plane. The dust collection with the bag is okay, pretty much 100% with the vac. As far as Festools go, it was relatively inexpensive. If I didn't have the Ridgid, I would probably have bought one of their 6" sanders.

I understand Sphere's points about non-perforated paper, but I think to get good dust collection you gotta have holes. I've found Festool paper to be of very high quality. Before I got a Festool vac, I used a Fein mini and got great results with the Ridgid.

Andy Engel did a review of sanders in Fine Woodworking not to long ago. I think the Bosch was his favorite. Found it in the index, issue 185.

- Kit

Technique is proof of your seriousness. - Wallace Stevens

Edited 1/24/2008 7:26 pm by vanderpooch


Edited 1/24/2008 7:27 pm by vanderpooch

Technique is proof of your seriousness. - Wallace Stevens

(post #126190, reply #12 of 35)

Pete,

I got the 6" festo as an introductory deal. They were selling it for 49 dollars if you had never bought a festo tool before. It's the best 49 dollar sander I ever bought. But I wouldn't pay 250 for it.

Steve

(post #126190, reply #13 of 35)

After burning out 4 PC's finishing houses, over 5 years, I tried a Milwaukee for about 2 hrs before returning it.  The Milwaukee RO sucks, I can't say enough bad things about the Milwaukee RO.


The PC's were good sanders


Bought a Makita 5" and love it except for the cloth dustbag which eventually leaks and blows dust in your eyes. I still use the Makita and use the paper without holes. No dust discharge, it all hits the floor but I am only sanding hardwood with it these last couple of years.


The other sander I use is a 5" Bosch, excellent dust collection, the bag is plastic case with a pleated heppa type filter in it. As Sancho mentioned, very little vibration to the palm but the top  grip is a bit large ( I'm 6'-1" and don't have small hands) so I grab it by the side If I'm doing alot of sanding.


The Makita is the most comfortable and has absolutely no spin-out. I calll it spin out when you hold the RO in the air and the base begins to pick up speed and turns the thing into a grinder.


If I really need to remove alot of material, Bosch is the best, puts the power to the pad and not your hand.


 


Gord


                        


 


 

 

(post #126190, reply #24 of 35)

Pete if you have the money to blow get the festool.

I like good things hands down, but at a reasonable price, Festool is not reasonable by any means.

I had a Porter Cable 5" hooked it up to my standard rigid shop vac went through two sanders five repairs in three years the pick up was okay. But the bearings kept burning out just out of warranty on both.

Then I got a 5" 8 hole var Rigid for 69.00 at HD, have had it for three years, use it with vac and without on bear wood and painted and finished wood it keeps going. The sander takes various sized vac hoses, pick up is great. So fess up 600.00 for the festool or 180 for a shop vac (Rigid Sears either one), with a poly filter and the sander and put the 420.00 in the bank.

Hey the Rigid even came with a case. By the way it came with a hook and loop base and a glue base. If the hook and loop should fail as all do wear out the roybi bases sold at home depot fit it same screw pattern and hole pattern no running to the parts store.

Every one else that is recommending the Festool do you own one or do you just stare at them when you go to Wood craft wishing you owned one. Porsche's are nice too but obeying the speed limits will get me to the lumber yard just as fast as my truck.

I think Home Depot still has 30 days try and see if you like it policy. Just my opinion sure other will chew me apart.

Wallyo

If you get the Festool make sure they teach you the secret handshake.

Edited 1/25/2008 3:31 pm ET by wallyo


Edited 1/25/2008 3:35 pm ET by wallyo

(post #126190, reply #25 of 35)

After seeing how well my painter's Makita sander did smoothing down some beams, I bought one and have been very happy with it. I have not tried hooking the dust port up to a vac but the dust sack that came with it works surprisingly well (and I am allergic to sawdust). I bought it through Amazon.com from Grizzly. The model is Makita G9155 and I paid about $95 for it. I particularly like the handle:


http://grizzly.com/products/Random-Orbital-Sander-4-000-12-000-OPM/G9155

(post #126190, reply #26 of 35)

Looks like mmoogie works with the C.I.A.

(post #126190, reply #27 of 35)

If you want dust collection 8 hole sanders will always outperform 5 hole sanders. I’ve tested 8 hole Bosch and Dewalt against 5 hole Porter Cable, etc and the 8 hole stuff does a lot better.


I’m pretty dubious about Dewalt in general, but I’ve wrung the #### out of a cheap Dewalt orbital for the last 7 years and gone thru hundreds of discs and it just now died. When I hooked it up to my tool actuated Fein vacuum it would stick itself to a wall as long as the vac was running. You don’t need to buy Festool to get 99.9 percent dust colleection



(post #126190, reply #29 of 35)

I tried the PC 5" a few years ago and promptly returned it because the rigid canister dust collector kept vibrating off as I used it.  Next was the Dewalt 5" because the bag seemed more secure, and it lasted a few years before it broke. 


During a renovation last year we had about 12  100 year old doors that were stripped and still needed to be aggresively sanded.  I did my research and found that the Bosch 6" was the most aggresive RO sander available (along with a Makita 6", not sure of that model #)


http://www.boschtools.com/Products/Tools/Pages/BoschProductDetail.aspx?pid=1250DEVS


I almost choked as I paid $250 for it, but it has been one of the best tools I've ever bought.  Not only is it very aggressive when needed, but on the milder setting I've been able to use it in place of my dead Dewalt 5" for finer sanding work.  I've used it on everything from refinishing hardwood floors as an edge sander to final sanding before a finish on cabinets.


It was rated highly at good dust collection, but I have never hooked it up to a vac (I know I should have a few times).  Maybe someone else can attest to that.


Be careful buying the Rigid - the same review I read gave it and the Metabo (and the Festool) high ratings as a medium aggresion sander, but that was when it WAS a Metabo sander made in Germany.  The current Rigid sanders are made in China.  They may be good also, but I have heard no one's input on the Chinese version.


Hope this helps-


Jamie


 

(post #126190, reply #30 of 35)

Out of curiousity I went into the cold and fetched my Rigid sander that I reported on to check county of orgin, it is made in China.

Tom it depends where you buy your paper I pay .40 a sheet loose for Klingspor paper at my local supply house and they stock it in the same grades you mention for Festool and it is better then Norton.