Help me pick out my new portable table saw folks.
I will be replacing a small Delta which I have used—and hated for 15-20 years. I believe it was one of the first small portable units on the market( it and Makita—- really wish I had bought the makita then LOL)
Looking at portable 10 inch models—for example the Bosch 4000-09, or the Rigid TS2400ls—- completely open to other suggestions as well.
Saw will primarily live at my “shop”—but will travel once a week or so to various job locations. Saw probably will never need to go inside a customners house—and ordinarily I can back my truck up to within a few feet of where I will be working with the saw—– sow weight is a very small concern.
Off the top of my head——- I want the fence to remain // with the !@#$%^&* blade—always a problem with the existing saw. I would like it NOT to pop 15 amp breakers—and ideally I would like to use dado head cutter in it.
tell me what ELSE I should consider. In addition to knowing which saw you recommend( and why)——- I would also like to know which saw you advise AGAINST ( and why)
thanks for what ever advice you can give me,
Stephen
Replies
Dewalt 744?
PC?
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter WFR
I have the Dewalt. It has performed acceptably, more or less, but not inspirationally. My next is most likely to be a Bosch.
Regard;less which you buy, you will have to train the crew how to treat it to keep alignment true. No throwing it around or standing on end etc.!
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A Bosch story, just a single-location anecdote, but worth telling.
My pard has a workhorse Makita outfitted with the Rousseau table and outfeed, and it has been well used. He got a Bosch, was thrilled at first, but then a lot of things seemed to be out of alignment.
He picked up another Makita, same model as the one he has, from a guy who was liquidating a whole kit of stuff. This one has been around the block, too, just not as many trips as his older one.
The "new" Makita produces almost glue-line rips, and is now installed in the Rousseau setup. The Bosch is collecting dust and is for sale . . . almost new . . . interested?
The Makita's are light as a feather.
Funny you should say that. My first Bosch was only good for cutting circles. I got it replaced and the new one works great.
BTW I also have a ryobi bt3100 in the basement that cut very good. The only problem with it is that under warranty it took more than a month to get fixed and the stand doesnt break down so its hard to transport. Its a dedicated dado saw now.
Edited 10/31/2006 6:44 pm ET by MSA1
The "new" Makita produces almost glue-line rips, and is now installed in the Rousseau setup. The Bosch is collecting dust and is for sale . . . almost new . . . interested?
The Makita's are light as a feather.
I also have a Makita in the Rousseau table that has wheels and allows pushing around like a dolly and love it.
My partner picked up one of the new Bosch saws with the wheeled table.
The 6 year old Makita will cut faster than the Bosch and the Rousseau makes it more portable, especially if going up or down stairs or over long distances and it can take a wider rip.
We both agree that the Bosch is a smoother and cleaner cutting saw. The fence is good and overall the saw is well built.
Each year I think of getting a new Makita with tighter bearings for trim, but after a tune up and a bit of TLC it's still just a great saw.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I'm gonna throw my support to the Makita...
I got a 19 y.o. Mak 10" saw that I have been trying to kill for the last 10...
the only thing I have replaced on it are the balde the cord and the switch.
bought new brushes at one point but the old ones still had good meat on 'em....
the Rousseau table makes a good saw a great saw...
Bosch are good when new...
Yellow and Orange are ........yellow and orange....
Metabo has a new TS !!!!
I wonder if it fits in a Rousseau Table????
why does my font shift when I change sizes????
Prospero... the Dewalt of the Internet!!!
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http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=59866.1
I'm having some luck to day pulling up some search results.
Some of the latest threads have good info to read up on.
I've got the Ridgid, and am generally quite happy with it. The fence seems to stay decently parallel to the blade. I've been building kitchen cabinets with mine. The only possible complaint is that it's really heavy. With the wheeled stand, that's no biggie, but I wouldn't want to lift it into or out of a truck bed.
I had some fun with mine: http://diddidit.googlepages.com/routerinsert
did
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diddidit,
that appears to be one good lookin & intelligent son ya have there!
I hope you are outrageously proud of him----and i encourage you to bore the snot out of everyone you meet by bragging incessantly about his accomplishments----------- I know i run off at the mouth at every opportunity about MINE ( 17 and 18 years old).
thanks for sharing,
Stephen
I've got the Ridgid and love it as well.
Great idea with the router drop in.
Only problem.....I got a bunch of stuff that aint gonna get done tomorrow when I'm designing and building one for mine! Thanks.
If you have a problem with certain Breaktime members, put them on ignore. Don't go whining to the moderators about it. Grow up already. Buncha Marys.
I've had my Bosch saw for 5-6 years and have been very impressed with it overall. Smooth, soft start - has never popped a breaker yet.As mentioned before - like the Ridgid - it is possible to make a killer router insert within the fenced extension - not sure if you could do that with the Dewalt's fence design or not.I saw the new Makita and if I was buying today, I 'd probably look long and hard at it as it looked to have some nice features and definitely had the history of great saws behind it.The one thing I noticed that it has (I think) vs. the Bosch is a t-slot miter guage slot - which will allow you to do much wider crosscuts that a non-t-slot will allow you to do.I have an Easysmart guide setup, and as handy as that is for some things - there are still things you can do faster and easier with a table saw that makes it worth having around.Plus - I don't think Dino's found a way to put a router table in the side of the EZsmart rail yet ;), and I'll never be without a router table setup on a job - way too handy for some work.JT
holy crap! i have the same table saw and was trying to figure out a router insert. that is genius! of course, i will be stealing your idea and making one for myself...
Holler if you want more pics or info. This was pretty slapped together, though - more of a proof-of-concept model than anything, so the details are pretty lacking.did<!---->Cure Diabetes - Death Valley 2006!<!---->
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Well getting one tool to do the work of two or more is tough.
Standard Contractor saw can be pimped by changing out the sheeves (pulleys) to cast iron or steel versions. That alone can get rid of the belt slipping that causes the lesser type of saw to balk at big timber being cut. Beyond that pimping is limited to waxing the table & buying different blades.
Table saws are king for cabinet work.Those type of saws of course are the king of a ripped cut. Cross cuts really stink. Too many counter-balanced boards and overhanging weights make the table saw less than usable in the field as a universal saw.
I'd stick with a sawbuck - Delta portable chop saw stand for cross cuts using a inexpensive miter saw to make cross and bevel cuts. Then I'd leave the ripping to a skil saw on a set of saw horses. If you upped the ante to a sliding mitre saw you'd be able to cross cut up to 10 or 12 inches w/o having any unsafe conditions.
As for the 15 a breaker blowing. Go to a thinner blade. While it won't last as long at least you aren't hogging out more wood in each kerf cut.
4000 Bosch
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
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Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
amen to that. I got one from CPO Bosch this summer and it rocks. First job was an oak trimout of a staircase and landing area....worked great!!! Can't say enough positive about it."The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a governmental program" -Ronald Reagan
I have the Dewalt 744 and like it fine. We use it constantly. The rack and pinion fence is a great thing, especially on a small saw. I have used the Bosch and did not like it because the fence was rinky-dink enough so that keeping it parallel to the blade was hard. Maybe they have a newer version. I'll check at the JLC show next week.
On my Dewalt the power switch and the fence lock are in the same general area. It would be easy to reach down to unlock the fence and accidentally turn the saw on. I think this has been changed on newer models.
on my dewalt the fence lock is on the rightand the power switch on the left.bobl Volo, non valeoBaloney detecter WFR
Edited 10/31/2006 2:19 pm ET by bobl
"I'll check at the JLC show next week."We expect a full report, complete with pictures!The newer Dewalts did change the dangerous switch location or the lock. Mine is the old killer locate near the fence lock
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Makita came out in last few months with a new job site TS that is directly competitive with the Bosch 4000 and the Ridgid. I looked at one recently, and while I didn't go over it with a fine tooth comb, it seemed pretty obvious the designers were trying to out-do the Bosch. I'm one of the many who sing the praises of the Bosch for job site work. I've had it about 5 years, equipped with a Forrest WWII. Julian Tracy came up with a really clever way to add a router set-up to the Bosch table. I built a variation, and it is very slick. I bookmarked Julian's description if your want it.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
"Julian Tracy came up with a really clever way to add a router set-up to the Bosch table."Could you post that link? - thanks.
Here is the thread where it first came up:http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=65062.8See also the link in Julian's Post 23, where he sends you back to the guy who gave him the idea. In my case, I made the router insert pretty much exactly the way Julian did, but I decided to use a Rousseau fence (instead of the saw fence). This allows you to make at least limited use of the saw without disturbing your router set-up. That's handy when you are edge routing something (like shoe molding), then using the saw to rip off the piece you just routed. Also, the Rousseau fence has a convenient dust pick-up for your vac.I also rigged a switch so I can turn the router/vac off/on without reaching around for each tool.It is a very slick arrangement.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
How long and what gauge is the power cable on the saw when it pops breakers? If it's too thin, the voltage drop causes breakers to pop.
highfigh,
I am not currently having problems with tripped breakers on the current P.O.S. Delta----- and I don't want any with the new set up either LOL
reason i mentioned it---is that I have had roofing subs have problems on older houses plugging in air compressors alone---- or running circ. saw when comp. fires up.
never really a problem on 20 amp circuits---- but we see quite a few 15 amp deals( still see screw in fuses every once in a while.
Compressors are much more demanding than table saws at startup. The initial current draw to move that piston in a cold pump can be pretty high.
In older houses, even when it's supposed to be 15 A, it sometimes isn't because of a combination of crappy old wires with deteriorating insulation, too many bad connection and long runs, some as results of many years of "home improvements"
Running 2 high powered tools at once can be challenging to any circuit.
@@ reason i mentioned it---is that I have had roofing subs have problems on older houses plugging in air compressors alone---- or running circ. saw when comp. fires up.
Better believe it. Then the framers will run 200' of #12 to the compressor and wonder why the breaker popped.
Trying to find job power on a lot of these project is a challenge. I had to buy the PC pancake compressor, which would run on less than 20 clean amps. Soon as the HO closed the garage door and left for the day, expect breaker to go.
One work-around is a pigtail and outlet to plug into the dryer outlet in the laundry. They have mixed 240,120 and you can pick up a 120 circuit or two.The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
to clarify on the popped breakers----- typically we are plugging the cord of the copressor directly into an outlet on a porch--or in a garage----- no extension cord.
I have a small single suasge Rol-air--- no problems---my bigger rol-air---and some of the subs compressors----occasional problems.
Over-all--- i am getting more curious about the Rigid.
the folks here who have it seem to really like it----and I don't think anybody has posted a negative about it.
close second--- the Bosch---either fanatical devotion-----or some grumblings about possibly a " problem" slipping out of the factory ????
stephen
what say you???
yuu used mine for a little bit..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
It did everything I wanted to do, a nice machine._______________________________________________________________
"Sleep well, and dream of large women" -The Dread Pirate Roberts, to The Giant
As the Bosch and the Ridgid saws are seemingly pretty comparable - one might look into the level of customer service that each company offers.I have a few Ridgid tools myself - mainly some of the earlier large woodworking tools, but also a few of the smaller hand-held power tools. Not sure of other's experiences, but I shudder to think the hassles I'll have to go through if I have any problems with any of them.I'm heard horror stories of long wait times, parts not available and in general, dealing with service centers that could give a damn less.At least with Bosch, I know I can deal with a real Bosch sevice center and know that they will have the parts ready if not then than within 1-2 days.In fact - I just took in my 15 minute Bosch fast charger to the service center because it had recently blown up after only 2-3 years of use and they had me out of the door with a brand new one with no hassles and a smile.Also had an issue with my 4000 saw - it was getting hard to raise the blade height - but they looked at it and let me know that all I had to do was keep the posts clean and greased up appropriately. The service guy came out and took a look and greased it up for me - no charge. And my saw is over 5 years old.I'm no fanatic, I just wonder what hoops you have to go through to get help if you had a problem with a Ridgid tool these days.Make sure you look at the new Makita though - it really looks nice.JT
julian--- that's a good point about the service.
Actually-----anything i buy will probably come from Hartville Hardware---- it's about 25 minutes away----and they service anything I have ever bought from them.
hoping to get out there about 4:00 tommorrow---and we will see what we will see LOL.
Stephen
@@ COMPRESSOR AT OUTLET - Right on. Our lads fed a big Emglo with 200' of 12g - and wondered why the plug melted/burned off. Duh? The compressor lasted several years after that until --- When the drain air is well mixed with oil, it's time to say goodbye - and that was after it was "repaired."
Over-all--- i am getting more curious about the Rigid.
the folks here who have it seem to really like it----and I don't think anybody has posted a negative about
I would have no problem buying one. It's a well-designed machine. Their tools are well worth a look.
Our Habitat chaper has several of the saws and they run/beat the crap out of them. Rode hard and put away wet. One even got hooked up to 240.
DUH! How do you do that? Were you born stupid or did you have to go to school?
This is not work well. $300 in repairs. After that we neutered all the 240 ports on the spider boxes. The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
SmartGuide... I don't own a portable TS (have a decked out Unisaw in the shop) and I've never missed it.
PaulB
Got the Dewalt and like it fine. Don't have anything to compare it to though.
"Let's go to Memphis in the meantime, baby" - John Hiatt.
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I just replaced my 15 year old Delta portable. The finehomebuilding article several months ago rated the ryobi as the best value. Since I'm not a cabinet maker I bought one. Home Depot just dropped the price in Canada on a wack of Ryobi product so I paid 269 plus taxes. It will rip upto 27 inches, has a built in stand, wheels and a decent fence, and like I said it was not 500 bucks. The two week report is I like it a whole lot more than the DElta.
Have a good day
Cliffy
You want a really really good set up? Buy the Rousseau table and outfeed for whatever saw you get, believe me you will not regret it. I have the old Makita 2708 (not even made anymore) with the Rousseau set up and have cranked miles of lumber through that thing. The saw is about 20 years old now and I have used it constantly through all those years, and replaced the brushes, bearings and cord only once. The Rousseau table set up is 9 years old and going strong. The fence on the Rousseau is a Beisemeir type, accurate, adjustable, and fairly indestructable.
If I had my choice I would get the new Makita 10" with the Rousseau.
Just tonight I fell into a deal and bought a new Dewalt 744, a very good saw. I wanted the Makita, but the deal was too good.
another vote for the Ryobi BT 3xxx, with reservations - it's more bang for the buck than anything else in the low end - but it's barely portable, weight is no problem, but it doesn't fold into a small package and I'd be concerned about durability if unconcerned individuals were rough loading and unloading -
I bought one for dad a few years ago - I borrow it occasionally when I'm doing small productions runs when it saves me setting/resetting my shop saw -
I like it -
I've got the bt3100 and like it. But I'm not doing this for a living.
I believe its being discontinued so you may have trouble finding one.
To DavidxDoud's point about it not being portable - the Sears version is pretty much the same but with more accessories and a gravity rise stand similar to the bosch.
So what did you finally decide.
I just read the makita review in JLC and it sounded OK but not raving.
I'm on my 2nd Makita and it's hard to beat em.
I haven't actuallyt bought it yet---
but I am pretty sure i am gonna get the bosch.
At present I am totally swamped with roofing and door hanging work through early December.
sounds stupid, I know---- but I am kind of waiting untill my work season ends to buy it------ so I can concentrate on it and devote some time to getting aquainted with it properly.
If I bought it now---it would sit in the box for a month-----and that would drive me crazy LOL.
number one on the list right now is the Bosch----- however---a close second is the Makita---- based soley on reputed durability. when I buy things I like 'em to STAY bought. LOL
I will let ya all know what and when i pick it up.
Stephen
BTW-----thanks for everybodies advice.
I have a Bosch which I bought in 2000. I chose it because of the elegant table extension mechanism and the onboard blade and tool storage.
Almost immediately I noticed binding when raising and lowering the blade and as mentioned earlier, you have to lube the bars. Since I have an oil can handy that's what I use but with all the dust going through there, that has to happen often so I don't recommend oil.
It's just a plastic saw but the spin of the arbor in its bearing is cheezy. On startup it buzzes like a shaft spinning in a loose hole. Also, the whole motor/blade assy seems flimsy and moves forward with the workpiece if I push too hard.
Then I noticed I couldn't seem to get a 90 degree cut, close but not quite and for most things it didn't matter but for some it introduces an element of aggravation if your work has to fit up. The table was bowed. I check the flatness of all the other saw brands I could find and they were all flat. All the Bosch I checked were bowed. I called Bosch and after a lot of arguing (they allowed each side of the table to be .04 out) they sent me a new table. I told them don't send me anything as bad as what I already had. They sent me one as bad as I already had. The little tabs that hold the blade insert later broke off the original so it is nice to at least have the replacement. But I still haven't installed it, aggravating as that sunken insert is. That was 2001 and as I recall the new ones have a different looking surface on the table so maybe they make them flat now, too.
I've never had a problem tripping a breaker on a 100' 12 g chord.
Lugging the table around is a pain in the neck. Not that heavy, just would be a lot nicer with wheels. I would certainly opt for the wheeled stand if buying now.
Doesn't have a brake. That would be handy. The scale on the table works great as does the extension slide and the fence. I use the thing a lot but it's a love/hate relationship. I haven't checked out the new ones yet. Could be worth trading up but I'd need to try one first.