Any suggestions of good books about dividing a victorian giant single family residence into a 3 or 4 plex with a degree of grace and good design sense? These houses are so large that they are not functional as single family homes. However, I hate to hack them up in horrible little apartments. Any suggestions of resources to divide up very big spaces into more functional space and livable?
Thanks,
Wendy
Replies
Dear cyotewildwoman,
I don't have a book recommendation, but have lived in such a home as a child. My recollection was that the first floor was pretty much a mirror image on both sides. We shared a front porch and back porch. The upstairs was one apartment. The one big thing I remember was that there was not a separate water heater for the units and my mom had to heat water on the stove for baths. This was in the very early 70's. Separate utilities seem like a must.
I would first recommend separate waterheater, etc. for each area. The bottom level, might need a mirror kitchen in the back of one unit. Cincinatti has tons of this type of home and my friend has the upstairs. There is a community laundry in the basement. I believe, in her case there are only two tenants, one up and one down. It is a lovely space, but shared areas, such as the lovely big porch, and the laundry. In her case, there is a stairway to one side that leads to her area, rather than the mirror image central hall.
Sounds like a fun and interesting project. If I were a tenant, I'd want my own great space, and a nice area if I had to share. Also factor in the yard. Is it easily divisible to unit, or is it a shared space? Are all the tenants compatible and agreement as to how to use the shared space and does it accomodate them qll well. Or, as a landlord, does one consolidate that? I think the outdoor space depends on the compatibility of the tenants. Again, indoors, separate utilities are key. The wonderful bones of the building in each area are a great asset as is the privacy issue to the tenants. Hopefully, they will all enjoy the architectural aspects of their space and willing to compromise on any common areas. With good neighbors, this sounds like a great project. Your plans may already accomodate this and, if so, you have a good thing going. Getting the tenants on the same page might be more of a challenge. Good luck to you.
I have no thoughts on any books offhand, but since you stated you would like to split the home up with "grace", try to hire someone who has a love, knowledge and the desire to work on these old homes. I live in what is said to be the largest intact neighborhood of Victorian homes in the country, and on a daily basis I see both good and bad remodeling jobs. What bugs me the most though, is when I see finely skilled work on a poor design, or using incorrect materials (such as clam moulding) in these homes. Good luck with your venture!
Coming to you from beautiful Richmond, Va.
These houses are so large that they are not functional as single family homes.
In this day of new construction homes that routinely exceed 6,000 square feet, I can't see a family not wanting a house because it is too big. I would think that taking a beautiful old victorian and updating it on the inside to today's living standards would make it a very desireable home. Most of these homes are located closer into city areas, which is where people want to be now.
Where I live, these houses were being chopped up 40 years ago when everyone was fleeing to the suburbs. Now they are either being returned to their origonal purpose or unfortunately, being knocked down to make way for even larger homes.
BTW, JoeyB, I lived in the Fan District of Richmond about 5 years ago. It's everything you say and more. Almost completely unblemished by teardowns. Every neighborhood you go to is like a museum exhibit of residential architecture of a different period.
A desirable way to divide up a huge house like this would be to make it a multigenerational house with an apartment on the first floor for an aging parent or two and kitchen/family room on the other side for the younger generation. My aunt and uncle did this. My grandparents live up north only a few months a year, so they have an 1-bedroom apartment that takes up 2/3 of the first floor of a big Victorian. Aunt and uncle and 4 kids have a kitchen and living room in the rest of the first floor and use the 6 bedrooms on the second floor (well, 5 of the bedrooms, 6th is used as a guest room for their guests or my grandparent's guests) and use the attic for play space for the kids. Shared wraparound front porch and shared basement for laundry/storage. It's a great solution and worked out well for everyone--my grandparents can leave for Florida for 6 months a year and not have to worry about the house, my aunt and uncle got the money for the down payment on a giant place they never could have afforded otherwise (the proceeds from my grandparents' big family house), and if one grandparent dies the other will not be living alone. As the boomers age, I imagine there will be more demand for this kind of thing.
These houses are so large that they are not functional as single family homes. However, I hate to hack them up in horrible little apartments. Any suggestions of resources to divide up very big spaces into more functional space and livable?
Why do you want to chop this place up really? Is it so you can rent the different units and make some money? Go condo in the future and make even more money? I think saying that you want to chop it up because the house is too big is disingenuous at best. In this day and age of 3000+ sq ft homes being the norm is this Vic really so big?
How big is this house? Is it in a desirable area with other unmolested Vic's? Is it mostly original on the inside or has it already been remuddled?
Big old unmolested Vic's are getting rarer and rarer by the day. It would be a crime to chop one up (imnsho). The house might be worth more in the future in its original state anyways. If it was built for as a single family dwelling originally that would that the original owners had some money. That means that the house would of started off with nicer materials and fancier work than the small workmans cottage from the same era.
Here in SF its very in vogue to subdivide the big vics. Its an easy way to almost double your money. I have yet to see one that looks nice. I have seen a lot of them that have made me very very sad. It would be very expensive now-a-days to try to match the trim details so most folks don't. You end up with some tacky home depot trim that is totally out of proportion to scale and granduer of the place. Yumm plastic hollow panel doors........
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Hi, Daniel:
The properties are in Ogden, Utah. Not a whole lot of demand for a 8000 square foot property in this area now. Most of these old Victorian Ladies are just getting torn down or are being so neglected that they will get condemned. Just wanted to be able to maintain some of the integrity of the building but remove the functional obsolence.
Not all markets can sustain homes of that size, particularly one like Ogden where the average income is in the 35k range. These properties will be converted to smaller family units or business offices or be torn down.
Just because a building is remodeled for a new use, doesn't mean it has to be destroyed or made into an ugly monster. Many of these buildings have been remodeled many times over the years, sometimes with positive results, sometimes not.
If a property cannot be used for its original purpose because the market has changed, is it best to destroy it entirely and put up a new structure or modify it to suit a current use?
If a property cannot be used for its original purpose because the market has changed, is it best to destroy it entirely and put up a new structure or modify it to suit a current use?
No of course not, its just dishonest to ask for help because 'its just too big' when what you really want to know is how is the best way to carve this old lady up so you can turn a buck on it.
Unfortunately economics is one of the real reasons these old houses get destroyed. You can not make enough money on the house as is so you want to carve it up into something that you can make money on it.
If it is 8000 sq ft that really a Victorian mansion. Was it always a single family home? Was it built as a single family home or as a boarding house or something like that?
You still have not answered any of the questions about the shape its in. How about attaching some pics of the exterior/interior?
The obvious way to carve the place up is into a unit per story. But you had better look into what kind of code required upgrading that is going to require. Around here a 3 story multifamily home would have to have an external fire escape and maybe even sprinklers installed. It might not be as cheap to convert into a multi-unit building as you think.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Candidly, Daniel- I am not interested in having an argument with you or being told that I am being dishonest in posting a request for assistance in dividing a large house.
I hope you live off a trust fund since you obviously have objections to anyone working for a living or making money on real estate.
This was a project we considered doing and are not longer pursuing. So it is a moot point. No need to continue to pursue this line of debate. It has become boring.
Wendy
I live in a large victorian house that was built as a single family residence and later converted into four apartments. My wife and I purchased this house 13 years ago and have converted it back to single family. Our house originally had an elaborate staircase that was removed to build a second floor kitchen while the rear staircase was left intact. I would suggest that you make every effort possible to retain the original staircase and do not destroy the ornate moldings. I have had many missing elements milled and wish that we had the original stairs back now that the second floor kitchen is no longer necessary. You never know what the future for your area holds. Our historical area went thru several down periods and now homes are being sold for $500,000 unrestored.
Stan