I wonder if anyone has noticed a drop in the quality of the Behr paint carried by home depot, or, more importantly, can recommend a paint that gives good coverage with strong bright colors.
I asked my children what colors they wanted their bedrooms, and then I actually told them that I’d paint the colors they chose. ( In my childhood color choice went like this: You kids can have your rooms any color you want. You want mint green, you want pale yellow, and the boys both want sky blue.)
One son chose bright red for one wall and all trim. I bought Behr’s “Grenadine” in matte and semi-gloss. The room was already painted with a Ralph Lauren satin-finish white and I did not prime but I sanded and washed. The wall that was painted red is only 7×9 feet, but it took a full quart of paint. Three coats of the Behr matte did not give it an even color. The semi-gloss didn’t cover evenly in one coat, which I expected, but the second coat made no difference. Part of the problem was the spreadability–the Behr paint didn’t spread at all well. The traditional spreading technique of painting a “w” with the roller and then smoothing over the area didn’t work at all. The “w” stubbornly retained its “w”-ness.
I have not had this problem with Behr paint before. When I moved into this house, the master bath was entirely covered with a nasty dark mud-red-brown; even the ceiling. Two coats of Behr transformed the ceiling to white and the walls to soft lavender-blue. I did not prime there, either, just sanded and washed. When I painted my kitchen a pale green over the existing burnt-pumpkin-pie color I primed with tinted Kilz on some surfaces, but used an additional coat of the paint on others. Both processes worked. Both those painting jobs weredone two years ago when I first moved in.
Is Behr going down hill? My younger son chose three of Behr’s Disney colors- a bright yellow called Laser Beam, a brilliant green called Sonic Boom, and a royal blue called Galactic Blue. I’m wondering if I should take my paint chips to the Glidden store and try to match them there. I’m doing horizontal stripes around the room and I don’t want to mess with third and forth coats in order to get full coverage. Or worse, do it and still not have full coverage.
Replies
I have also had recent trouble with Behr from Home Depot. When I was growing up we could have any color we wanted as long as it was off-white. My daughter is 2, and I let her pick the color scheme for her room (so I am apparently more insane than you). The trim in her room is light purple, satin finish, and I was having a lot of trouble getting decent coverage in 2 coats over primer. That paint didn't even seem to stick very well, popping off if it came in contact with anything else, not bonding to the primer. I sanded and replaced with Kwal-Howell paint and am MUCH happier. It covers well in one coat, is less prone to drippiness, and sticks to the darn board.
I'm not sure if you'll have better luck with Glidden or not. I thought Glidden was supposed to be a step down from Behr. In my case, part of it is that K-H has a higher acrylic content to the paint, but I don't know if that is all of it. I do know that Behr is low on my list for paint now that I've used better.
Good morning, I've just used Behr paint in my stepson's bedroom and in both bathrooms with very good coverage in one coat. In his room, we were covering the most bizarre combination of electric aqua color and the trim was a very deep eggplant. We used a colonial blue on 3 of his walls, harvest brown (medium shade of gold) on a 3-sided nook where his desk sits and an off-white on all the trim. I was completely satisfied with the Behr paint. However, while at Home Depot waiting for our colors I did witness a very inexperienced clerk there wrecking havoc on a fellow painter. Her colors were way off. Possibility of a wrong mix giving a wrong coverage, too? Don't know. Kudos to you for agreeing to the color choices of children. They can certainly be exciting ones!
Tish, I never have any problem with Behr paint, but I do know that Red is a notoriously difficult color to get good coverage with. Something to do with the amount of pigment needed, which reduces the amount of something else (binder?) that is important in the coverage. So, it may be less a function of the brand paint and more one of the fact that it's bright red.
That being said, I don't think any pro's ever use Behr paint.
(I tried to google for more info on the pigment issue, but haven't found anything useful).
Thanks, Tessa and Aimless and new Tish. I didn't know that red was notorious, Tessa.
Aimless, I suggested Glidden because I just happen to know where the nearest Glidden store is (across the street from the Chinese Restaurant that has the chicken wings my son likes). I've never heard of Kwal-Howell (did I get that right?) Where do I buy it? I'm nearly 45 years old and after growing up with a Sears dad and a pastels mom, I lived for 25 years or so in rented digs that I was NOT ALLOWED TO PAINT, either by lease or by roommates, so I'm finding this whole paint brands thing a bit new. At least my long-ago classes at the Corcoran are paying off now, because I can paint a straight line.
Tish, welcome to the Taunton forums! I was so surprised to see your name that I clicked your profile and it says you just joined today.
I'm going over to Breaktime to see if any of the builders have got anything about paint in their archives. If my husband can get my scanner going, I'll post a picture of the color mock-up I made for my son.
Boy am I glad you clarified that there is more than one Tish. I was confused!
The two brands of paint that I like are Pratt and Lambert and Benjamin Moore. Slighty more $ than Glidden or Behr but better quality IMHO.
I've never used Behr paint. But, deep colors do not cover as well as lighter colors, and red is famous for being the worst. It's not uncommon to need 3 or 4 coats to cover.
The reason is this. To make paint hide well, opacifiers are added. These are powdered minerals, like titanium dioxide in premium paints and silicon dioxide in lower end paints. The trouble is that these materials are white. They can't be used in a deep color such as red, because the paint would come out pink. So, they have to reduce or forego the opacifiers and depend on dyes. The dyes, being what they are, don't hide well. Imagine trying to paint your walls with Rit.
You can help some by applying a primer, and tinting the primer a fairly dark version of the final color. That way, the topcoats have less trouble hiding it.
long discussion in BT about red paint you can try the search function but that's a crap shoot.
I have no experience with Bher paint ,almost exclusive Benjamin Moore
As someone pointed out deep tint base is clear . Pastel base is white which provides the opaqueness to hide the old coats.
Best primer for red is Black believe it or not.
My uncle painted his daughters room red 7 coats also Behr,for the second room also a deep color he took the sample toa Ben Moore and had it matched
I.d try thr black primer Goodluck
Thanks! What I have now is a wall that has a sort of mottled apearance, and with the furniture in place it comes across as a bit desert-southwest looking, so I'm not going to try to replace it. The trim and doors look beyond mottled: brush marks all over the place. Some friends told me that they thought I'd done it one purpose, like ragging or sponging. They are very good friends. Kindly and polite.
I think that what I want to do is leave the wall and baseboards, now that my son is moved in, but repaint the doors, starting with a black primer.
The other room is the question. Based on comments and advice here, I think I should take my paint chips to a Benjamin Moore dealer and match the colors. I'm painting a bright yellow (called Laser Beam, if that gives you an idea) over a light mustard-y yellow, so coverage there should not be a problem. But I'm putting a 12 inch high horizontal stripe of bright green (Sonic Boom) and another 12 inch stripe of bright royal blue all around the room. Maybe I should prime that 24 inch area with a medium blue.
And when I sell the house the real estate agent will look at my sons' rooms and suggest that repainting them white will make the house more saleable!
You guys are all great.
Tish,
Kwal-Howell may be a local name - I've never seen it mentioned on Breaktime either. They give high marks over there to Benjamin Moore and a few also like Sherwin Williams. Even with a tinted primer, I'd still stay away from Behr on your application - with stripes you don't want to mess around.
We had a really bad professional paint our house. He used Behr for the oxblood red trim because the color couldn't be matched over at Sherwin Williams. It took him three coats over tinted primer, and has not held up well at all. After only 3 years it needs to be scraped and redone. As for the royal blue, I did my mural in the bathroom with Behr paint, and there are a lot of spots where the white peeked through. Luckily I could just put fish over the worst offenders. You might want to tint your primer for each of the stripes (you can have them tint the primer to your color at the store). While white will be fine under the yellow, you may want a darker primer for the blue.
Good luck, and don't forget to post the pictures.
The Kwal paint is a local brand out west. I think Denver is their home.
Red is tricky, needing many coats.
Ben Moore and Sherwin Williams are the only paints that see my jobs.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge
FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where
Excellence is its own reward!
Benjamin Moore is the way to go. Their paint is much more $$ but I can tell the difference while using it and once the paint has dried. It is much higher quality. Plus because it is a thicker paint than say Behr, Home Depot or Lowes brand, you need fewer coats to get a solid colored wall. It is excellent quality and definitely not a mottled appearance.
Pratt and Lambert is supposed to be excellent too, I just haven't tried it myself yet.
Thanks for the reply. I love the way everyone has reassured me that the problem is the paint's fault, not mine! (Though I did notice that I ought to have primed before applying the red.) I bought the Ben Moore paint for the second son's bedroom last Friday. Yesterday I taped, spackled, sanded and washed, and today I hope to begin painting. (an ice storm has closed schools. Will I get any work done today? Iffy.)
Yesterday my cats volunteered to be general contractors on the project. Don't you hate it when they do that? The old cat walks into the room acting like something smells bad, circles the covered furniture, gives me one look and stalks out. She hates what I'm doing so much she can't even speak of it. The young cat rearranged the plastic drop cloths covering the bunk beds. She actually did point out a safety hazard to me. I realized that I had to not only cover the bed, but hermetically seal it to keep her out. The bed is now gift wrapped in plastic and painter's tape; not only entirely covered, but the coverings are taped to the plastic on the floor. The cat can't get into the structure and accidently suffocate. Also the young cat brought me one of her fuzzy mice. Is she telling me, as general contractor, that I can't begin the job until I have a fuzzy mouse in the room, or is she making a decorator statement that no room is complete without a fuzzy mouse?
" (Though I did notice that I ought to have primed before applying the red.)Â "
In an older house, you should always prime before you paint because of old stains and most importantly, the walls might have been painted with oil base paint before. Not only does this prevent bleed-through of stains or whatever, it will create a solid bond to the wall, which you definitely want with little kids around.
"The cat can't get into the structure and accidently suffocate"
You are such a good Mom! I would have been concerned about the cats getting into the paint and then stepping under the covers and finger-painting the furniture. LOL! It didn't occur to me that the cat might not have a way out.
One of the few gracious things the previous owner did was to leave me records of what was used to paint each room. In some cases, she left the paint. So I know that everything was painted with latex, mostly Pierre Cardin, but some Behr.
She took light fixtures, closet door knobs and medicine cabinets, but she left the paint! Too bad I hate all her colors.
"She took light fixtures, closet door knobs and medicine cabinets"
People are weird.
You are awfully lucky to get such a helpful seller. Ours wasn't happy at all to be selling their house. They seemed to get in the way of the sale many times. LOL.
Our seller was actually the husband, but the wife had decorated the house to the nines, maybe even nine and a quarters, and she called the shots about what they took. Our buyers agent told us that anything that is bolted down is assumed to convey unless the seller's contract says it does not convey. Ours said the curtain fixtures and shades all conveyed, but she took most of them. She took the stuff I mentioned before, she took all the hooks off the bathroom walls. She tried to take the shelves out of a built-in bookcase. When my brother went to unbox books, the top shelf fell on him and we found out that the screws had been removed. It was all very strange. I couldn't come to the final walk-through because I had an exam, but I went to the closing and my husband said it was fine. When I walked through the house after closing I couldn't believe it. I think that maybe because the house was her husband's and not hers, she tried to take everything she had ever done to the house.
But we got lucky. The house had been on the market two weeks without an offer so when we made an offer, the seller took it immediately. He worked for a senator and was being transfered to the home state office by a certain date, whether he sold his house or not, and he wanted to sell. Houses in my neighborhood have gone up 35% in three years.
" we found out that the screws had been removed. "
Ok. now it's for certain. People really are crazy. She sounds really sad and bitter. I can't imagine going to the trouble to do that.. how bizarre....
" He worked for a senator"
You must be in DC. That's where I grew up. What part? I miss DC a lot.
"Houses in my neighborhood have gone up 35% in three years."
Nice! Gotta love the DC real estate market. LOL!
Edited 2/4/2004 11:45:06 AM ET by Mer
I'm in Silver Spring, near Wheaton. I grew up in Oxon Hill, overlooking the Woodrow Wilson Bridge. I've never really lived anywhere else, having been brought here at 16 months. I would miss it if I left, but there are some parts of the country that I think would be worth trying. What I would really miss is the free museums. and the parks. and the drivers. (not.)
My husband grew up in Georgetown. Are you from DC proper, like him, or a suburbanite like me?
If you really miss DC, you can decorate with Enid Romanek prints.
I grew up in Silver Spring and Chevy Chase, but always went to school in DC just up Wisc. Ave from Georgetown.
I loved the prints that I found here: http://www.enidromanek.com/
I haven't heard of her before. These are beautiful. I might have to get some. Thanks!
You are lucky that you bought in Silver Spring. That neighborhood is going through some massive transformation. I loved the Wash Post article on all the new restaurants.
You are lucky that you bought in Silver Spring. That neighborhood is going through some massive transformation.
Actually, I moved away from that part of Silver Spring. We rented a house right on the Takoma Park border, just 12 blocks from the Silver Spring Metro station, where all the rebuilding is happening now. When the Discovery channel moved to town, the property values skyrocketed, so by the time we were in a position to buy any house, the houses our size were too expensive. I'm in Kemp Mill now. Prices in my neighborhood are mostly driven by the two Orthodox synagogues, the Yeshiva of Greater Washington, and the SSJC with its daycare center and primary school. Our neighborhood is so tuned to the rhythms of Orthodox life that the neighborhood pool's swim team doesn't compete on Saturdays. You can get Kosher Sushi in my neighborhood pizza parlor. But we're also just three miles from the Wheaton Metro. Wheaton is claiming to be on the rebound. I don't know. Wheaton will always be Wheaton, y'know?
One thing to remember about Silver Spring: Silver Spring is everywhere in Montgomery county that isn't already somewhere else.
I gave Enid Romanek's print of the Penn Daw Krispy Kreme to my brother for Christmas. I think I gained five pounds just remembering that place. In high school it was the last place open. We'd go stand by the glass windows and watch the donuts floating along on the river of bubbling fat, go through the flipper, the glazer. When the "hot donuts now" sign came on, people would veer across Route One to pull into the parking lot. Lots of memories in her art.
"Our neighborhood is so tuned to the rhythms of Orthodox life that the neighborhood pool's swim team doesn't compete on Saturdays. "
Wow. Not only do I know Kemp Mill, but the swim team that I was on from age 5-17 was one of those teams that lost half our swimmers on Sat mornings. I used to swim for Parkland Pool, near that shopping strip with the Giant supermarket and one of the Orthodox synagogues. The road name is short and begins with an "A". I can't remember it. I haven't been there for years but I have many many wonderful memories there.
"I gave Enid Romanek's print of the Penn Daw Krispy Kreme to my brother for Christmas. "
Where was that? I can't believe that I missed out on Krispy Kreme for all those years. I thought it was new to DC.
I noticed her print of the Hot Shoppes that used to be on Wisc. and Old Georgetown Rd. My grandmother used to take me there. It was a good old place.
Edited 2/4/2004 11:06:39 PM ET by Mer (to make sense! LOL!)
Edited 2/4/2004 11:07:26 PM ET by Mer
We're members of Parkland pool.
The Krispy Kreme is on Route One south of the Alexandria city limits, maybe a mile outside the Beltway. It's been there forever. Well at least since the early 60s. My youngest childhood was in a nearby neighborhood and we occasionally went by after church for a dozen glazed donuts as a treat. It was really the place when we were teens, though. The Wilson bridge was a conduit, not a barrier, in those days and there was NOTHING in Oxon Hill. So when the parties began to wind down, or we were tired from throwing toilet paper rolls over peoples' oak trees, the Krispy Kreme was the place to go.
I mentioned the Romanek print to one of the ministers at my church, who grew up in Mount Vernon and Reston, and she went nuts. "Everyone went there! It was the only place open!" I suspect that her sisters will be getting copies of that print next Christmas.
My youngest son convinced my husband to give me the print of the Denzel carousel at Glen Echo. I think it will go in my kitchen. I do remember that Hot Shoppes, though my husband remembers it better than I do. There's something tall there now.
Edited 2/5/2004 7:56:20 AM ET by Tish
OMG! Small world, isn't it??
I looked up Parkland, and saw that it now has a website. Impressive! I also noticed that Mr Townsend is the president. His kids were on the team while I was there, but they were quite a bit younger. They were cute kids. I remember his son was especially funny. The older kids sort of adopted him.
So, since you have kids, they are on the team aren't they? The swim team is one of the best memories I have of my childhood.
Jason Townsend was head coach last summer. My older son was on the team, but he's not a good swimmer. His physical-spacial accuity is not so good, and he's not a good athlete. I don't know if he'll swim on the team again this year. Marcia Townsend is one of the nicest people at the pool.
OK, so if you come back to visit the area, you have an open invitation to come on by. If it's the summer, I'll take you to Parkland.
Is Anne going to come by with her gavel and tell us to take this outside? I hope the people who've been reading this for information about paint aren't put off by this "old home" discussion. The web makes the world smaller.
Wow. This is such a bizarre conversation. :)
I do hope you will encourage your son to stay with the team even if he isn't so great at swimming. The team is really much more than that. I am so glad to hear that Jason was the coach last year. Will he again this summer?
I would really love to take you up on your offer if I do come to town over the summer. That would be so cool.
By the way, HC needs some more tangents to get it as active as CT or Breaktime. LOL! They are all about tangents!
What about your daughter? Is she on the team? How old is she?
My daughter is 21, and a senior at University of Maryland, with a double major in Spanish and Linguistics. I rarely had access to pools when she was little and she never became much of a swimmer. She lifts weights. I have always included her in our list of family members when we get our pool passes, but she's never gone to the pool. She hates being seen in a swim suit! (she's beautiful) Of course at our pool, the Orthodox mamas put long sleep shirts on over their swim suits so they can go in with their children and teach them to swim. The staff is understanding about things like shirts that other pools would not allow.
This summer I will not be able to include her. She'll be 22 and she really lives elsewhere now. She comes home to do laundry and raid the freezer for home-made brownies, but she doesn't come home to live during the summers. This thread started because I made her bedroom over for my older son (9 years old).
Edited 2/6/2004 7:44:19 AM ET by Tish
"This thread started because I made her bedroom over for my older son (9 years old)."
That's right! I had just remembered that you had mentioned two children in the first post. I hope your younger son will be interested in the team too.
Well, I am thrilled to hear how Parkland is doing. I have such wonderful memories of that pool. It is really one of the most beautiful park-like setting for a pool. I could go on and on, but I am sure that everybody else would be bored silly..
We will have to meet up sometime in the summer. I don't have a date scheduled to come up, but when I do, I will let you know. Thanks again for the offer to let me visit with you. :) it is much appreciated.
Hi Mer. I'm gonna take this over to the hearth. 'Cause when Tish's daughter is mentioned, well, she's my grandaughter and you know how grandparents have to tlk about grandkids.
BJGardening, cooking and woodworking in Southern Maryland
Hi Tish. I was born in DC, lived in PG County until I got married and moved to Falls Church, VA. We lived there 30 years then moved to OC, MD. Before settlement day we left all the brochures and warranties for the kitchen appliances, the gas furnace, washer and dryer. In the storage shed we left the mower, snow blower, rakes, everyting for gardening. Moving to a townhouse in a condo assoc. we didn't need that "stuff" anymore. The new owners made out royally.
Some would say we dumped "stuff" on them, but since they were relocating from TX we figured they could use what we left.
It's nice to meet another DC suburbanite.
Hi, Rip! You guys were nice sellers! Did you tell the buyers that you were leaving the equipment?
I'm hoping to have a working usb port soon so I can post pictures of my sons' room renovations.
We never talked with the buyers, they weren't at settlement, seems the entire family had the flu. Our seller realtor knew we left everything for them, hope he forwarded the info to the buyer realtor.
We felt it was fair to leave all the warranty info, since it wasn't done for us when we bought the house. They were in the process of a divorce, so I guess they weren't feeling kindly towards anyone. The people we bought this house from were also going through a divorce. There is a pattern here !!!!!
It is weird that she took knobs and hooks, but leaving paint is actually quite understandable. When you're packing up the house to move, those old, half-empty cans of paint that may or may not still be usable are the last thing you want to take.
The previous owners of our house (who were very nice but had horrible taste in paint) left their cans also. Then again, we also inherited a barn full of junk from them. They said they had inherited it from the owners before them!
I am still surprised that light fixtures, appliances and curtains automatically convey here, unless specified otherwise. In Holland, nothing of that kind of stuff conveys. So you end up schlepping the enormously heavy (because re-inforced with concrete) washer up 2 flights of stairs every time you move. Brrr. I'm not sure which system makes more sense to me though.
I think most people leave paint cans because movers won't take them. So many of them spill and leak, and some are flammable, that the will not take them.
Yes, here, "fixtures" convey. Fixtures are items not ordinarily moved during use, permanently wired and attached to the structure. So, for example, a water heater, furnace, chandelier, built in bookcase, dishwasher, kitchen cabinets, wall to wall carpeting would all convey. A clothes washer, table lamp, freestanding bookcase, pictures & frames, throw rug would not. Items which matter to either the buyer or seller which may not be clearly understood whether they convey or not (such as a wall mirror -- is it hung on hooks or is it glued?) should be mentioned specifically in the offer and contract.
And yet Consumer Reports lists Behr flat/semi and gloss as a good quality/buy.
I used a Benjamin Moore eggshell in a custom color without any problems (about 10yrs ago). Now I'm working on the upstairs and the Moroccan room was painted w/a McClurskey eggshell called San Juan Hill. Menard's doesn't carry them any more (need to check Sears) but luckily I have some of the color left and can have it matched, Hurrah. Now to match the luscious wine red that I'm thinking of. And let's see if I can afford that remnant piece of granite, preferably before the next snow flies. *sigh*
Fannie May? Fannie May? FIE, I'll take Cookiemonster's exquisite creations anytime.
hello, we used a bright yellow behr paint in our living room a few years ago. we could not get the benjamine moore to match well, so we bought the behr paint. it literally dripped off the walls. my husband is an experienced painter and had a heck of a time trying to finish. the behr color selection is very good though. by now your project is done, but... happy painting, erin