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replacing rotten rim joist , brick house

alwaysoverbudget's picture

i am working on a brick venner house,with a basement, that has about 8' of rotton rim joist and sill plate.the floor joist ends are also rotten. now what?if it was siding i would just go to the outside and work from there,but not possible.i can get to everything from the basement.


all i can come up with is  to work the sill plate out,the rim is so far gone i can see the back of the brick.replace the sill then just fit pcs in between the joist for the rim.then i still have to deal with the ends of the floor joist. they are rotten where they rest on the sill,do you just scab on a new pc and how far should they extend back to hold the weight?


right now i'm in the process of jacking the joist back up as they had dropped about 2.5".one thought i had was to just jack it back level and build a 2x6 wall to hold everything in place and leave it all alone,but then i'm loading the basement floor and not the  foundation/footings,comments on that idea? larry


why pay someone to screw it up,i can do it for free....

the older i get ,

the more people tick me off

(post #104841, reply #1 of 21)

So you can't take the brick veneer off? If you are uncomfortable with the brick work then just hire that part out. That's what subcontractors are for.


I'd start calling guys that can do the brick work first and ask them if they can do it and how they would like you to remove the brick. Line everything up so they can come in and do their work.


 

______________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________ There are three kinds of men: The one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. Will Rogers

(post #104841, reply #6 of 21)

this is a full brick to the roof,it would be  a big job just to get it all off and not broke up,it's a 1920's house so matching the brick would be tough.larry

why pay someone to screw it up,i can do it for free....

the older i get ,

the more people tick me off

(post #104841, reply #2 of 21)

Is the joist's rot centered midwall and not on a corner and how far back into the joist does the rot go?


Being brick veneer I take it the wall/roof weight is transferred to sill by wood studding and not by the brick providing the strength?


 


 

 

(post #104841, reply #7 of 21)

the sill looks like it was a 2x6 orig. the rot on the floor joist runs about 7" and most of the height of it 2x10. the brick should be hanging on a brick ledge so the wood just holds the wood wall.thanks larry

why pay someone to screw it up,i can do it for free....

the older i get ,

the more people tick me off

(post #104841, reply #12 of 21)

Is Oz out west in pretty much a non heating climate?


Quite a conflict of balance is always involved in the perfect, good, ok, and passable.  


If the window is found to be the culprit then you are a blessed man. Sounds like a direction of investigation worth the time seeing the rot is isolated to just an 8ft length.


If that's the game then the jacking, temp support wall and sisters should work and if possible looksee if there is feltpaper over the rest of the walls.


You never mentioned if the bottom of the wall studs received the rot or not.


Just trying to picture if the studs run to the sill or to a base plate atop the joists.


If the rot worked it's way a tad up the studs it might still be remedied without messing with the vomitous bricks by cutting the studded rot level back to solid wood then building layers of flatlaid PT2x's on top of the 2x6 or 8 sill, on up to the bottom of the studs.


If that is the scenario careful measure and cutting of the studs might permit sledging in the top 2x beneath the studs.


 


 

 

(post #104841, reply #13 of 21)

rez,you gotta start watching more tv.the wizard of oz,with dorthy and toto were from kansas. the saying "were not in kansas anymore,toto"  it's our only claim to fame and we have to grasp at every straw. we even have named a highway "the yellow brick road"


ok,back to wood rot. at this point i don't think there is any studs with rot.once the floor is level and fixed i will be putting in a new kitchen right above this area[thats what got this all started with a 2 1/2 inch dip] and will be able to open the wall up and check the studs.again not seeing inside the wall,but standard building pratice around here i have always seen a bottom plate sitting on the subfloor,so if i was betting thats the side i would fall on.


your point of :perfect, good ,ok,and passable i fully agree with.it's not like this house doesn't have other problems here and there.i'm just looking to get a new solid sill and rim to straighten out the floor. i now work on a 25 year plan,25 years from now i'll be sitting in a nursing home druelling on myself and really won't care whats happened to the floor in this house, the state will probably own it to pay for my medacare.guys gotta have a plan!!! lol     thanks larry


why pay someone to screw it up,i can do it for free....

the older i get ,

the more people tick me off

(post #104841, reply #15 of 21)

BT has taken most TV time and after looking at my profile and seeing that there's over 20,000 posts I'm due for a name change lest people know how much friggin' time gets spent on here.


So how you going to fix the floor now that the options have been weighed?


 


being ashamed




sobriety is the root cause of dementia.   

 

(post #104841, reply #20 of 21)

rez i 'm thinking this is my plan from whats been said here.


support the floor joist,then i will cut them off about 10" short. go in dig all the rotten sill and rim out and slide a new pt sill plate in.then with the joist cut short i should be able to get a piece of pt rim board in place from the basement side.


 i'm not going to sweat the tar paper,if the rest of the house doesn't have one then this matches,but otherwise the options to just get a pc of tarpaper in seem like way to much trouble.can you imagine the words said if i started tearing the brick off only to see that the rest of the house has none.oooh i'd be talking.


then after the rim is in i will come in with 8' 2x10s and sister them onto the old joist with lots of glue and probably a few through bolts.let the floor back down till it rest on the sill and i think i'll throw a 2x6 wall up along the basement wall just for extra support.


when i tear into the kitchen i will open the wall up and check the studs,i'm really expecting them to be fine,but you know how wood rot goes,just keep chasing.


i don't know if that will get me to my 25 year plan or not ,but it will be a 100% better than now with the floor joist hanging a couple inches.


is this  a dumbaz plan?     thanks larry


why pay someone to screw it up,i can do it for free....

the older i get ,

the more people tick me off

(post #104841, reply #21 of 21)

That didn't sound right.


What I meant is you just need to be at peace with it.


Sounds like more than 25years to me tho'.


 be after attending to the window that is




sobriety is the root cause of dementia.   

 

(post #104841, reply #3 of 21)

Working around the brick isn't going too well so how about cleaning and repointing all the brick?  Of course, that will allow you to remove as much brick as you need to replace the rotten lumber. 

(post #104841, reply #4 of 21)

The reason it is rotten is that the brick veneer is wrong - no weep holes and possibly no tarpaper on the sheathing.

So you might as well take it off to do it right.

 

 


Welcome to the
Taunton University of
Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
 where ...
Excellence is its own reward!

 

 

Oh Well,

We did the best we could...

(post #104841, reply #9 of 21)

this is a 1920's house [i know thats like a new one to you guys out east]there is a window above it that may have contrinuted to the problem,


weep holes are often discussed here ,but to tell you the truth i have never heard of that as  a detail around here.they start bricking on the ledge with solid rows of brick and don't stop till they hit the top.


you guys keep telling me to rip the brick,i think i'm about to puke...... larry


why pay someone to screw it up,i can do it for free....

the older i get ,

the more people tick me off

(post #104841, reply #11 of 21)

the weep holes are in the mortar and if you're notlooking for them, they're easy to miss.

(post #104841, reply #17 of 21)

In my experience, 1920's houses are almost guaranteed to not have flashing and weep holes in brick veneer.  I don't think they thought that far ahead. Mine doesn't and it was built in '37 and has the expected bad side effects.

(post #104841, reply #5 of 21)

Aupport your joists and cut off the rotten ends a few at a time.  Then replace that part of the mud sill and rim.  Sister up new joists.  I would go back at least eight feet.  Glue and nail.  I would use eight-foot joists or preferably go all the way to the next beam.  Also, I would build a support wall next to the outside wall.  I assume this is a basement.  The support wall should be 2X6 with blocking halfway up.


Find out what is causing the moisture problem and fix that too, if you can without removing the veneer.

How can you understand God if you can't understand people?  How can you understand people if you can't understand yourself?

(post #104841, reply #8 of 21)

That would work, and it shouldn't bee to hard to drill new weepholes through the veneer joints from inside, but how to re-apply tarpaper to the sheathing between brick and wood?

Or do we just say "well, that oughta do it for another ten years..."

 

 


Welcome to the
Taunton University of
Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
 where ...
Excellence is its own reward!

 

 

Oh Well,

We did the best we could...

(post #104841, reply #14 of 21)

My church just repaved a parking lot. The pavers put asphalt against the base of the building and over the weep holes and wicks. I thought it was neat the guys who did the brick work neatly put wicks in the weep holes. Told the maintance guy in charge and he thought I was nuts

(post #104841, reply #16 of 21)

Actually, if I were to do this job, I would definitely not be looking at a ten year horizon.  I would do it in such a way as to last pretty much indefinitely, like any well-built home, assuming conscientious maintenance.


If the brick is worth saving, I would consider taking off the inside wall, which would be much less expensive to replace.  This should offer adequate access to the back of the brick to get some kind of moisture barrier in there.


I consider analysis of the problem to include determining the actual cause.  If the moisture is only coming in at a window, that might be the easiest to fix.  Either  way, the window has to be popped out.  Also important would be how much of an overhang there is and which way the house is facing.  The prevailing wind is probably from the southwest.


One thing that occurred to me after I had logged off was that the subfloor supporting the affected wall might also be in need of replacement at the perimeter.  This could go as far as the bottom plate and maybe affect the lower portion of some of the studs, giving all the more reason to remove the inside walls.  It's the kind of job where you just do it and find out you're glad that you did it and that it was neither that expensive nor difficult.


Anyway, assuming the areas I mentioned require some replacement, I would still go ahead as I said and then, with solid floor joists to build upon, I would build a temporary wall on the first floor, to hold up the ceiling, remove the wall covering, and then replace as much as necessary in the framing.  Replacing studs and bottom plate at this point would be financially insignificant and frankly be a piece of cake.  It would make installation of a barrier easier too.


Finally, if the brick wall were to be removed, the work I have mentioned would have to be done anyway.  My solution simply leaves the brick in place.

How can you understand God if you can't understand people?  How can you understand people if you can't understand yourself?

(post #104841, reply #19 of 21)

"I consider analysis of the problem to include determining the actual cause"

That is where I was going.

 

 


Welcome to the
Taunton University of
Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
 where ...
Excellence is its own reward!

 

 

Oh Well,

We did the best we could...

(post #104841, reply #10 of 21)

it's about 14' to the next support.lots of ducts etc. in the way to go full length ,but 8' would be doable. i in on the idea of a 2x6 wall on the outside to at least help hold. thanks larry

why pay someone to screw it up,i can do it for free....

the older i get ,

the more people tick me off

(post #104841, reply #18 of 21)

Errr, the brick likely was done wrong and was the "cause" of the decay.

Fixing the symptom won't fix the problem.




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And Annie Ross's "Twisted" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqivrCIRGo&mode=related&search=


 

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